Returning Player Remembering Why They Quit

[Larvath.9760]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:02 PM, Malthurius.6870 said:

So, I've been around since the betas and was hyped up on the game before it launched (was very active on the MMO-Champion forums). I quit somewhere during Season 4 and it was mostly due to anti-consumer monetization practices. Let me break it down and air this out because a lot of this is still unacceptable.

1. The Gem-Store has way too much developmental focus. A huge portion of content is developed for the Gem-Store and when I quit the most egregious example of this was the mounts. It was one thing for them to be only earnable via RNG loot boxes (thanks for fixing that I guess? It's still kind of trash that the selectable item costs more and the RNG one even still exists). The entirety of the mount skin system is predatory and frankly disgusting.

 

The basic issue I have with this is that all of those items in the gemstore should be obtainable via specific in game accomplishments like achievements, or at least a larger portion of them. I want goals to work towards, and the generic goal of grinding gold isn't as fulfilling as working towards a specific goal. A middle ground would be to have both: skins in the gemstore, but also obtainable via specific achievements or tasks; kind of like how you can buy legendaries or you can go through the motions to get it via collections and content.


2. Build templates are a sin; a blemish, a pestilent blight. For anyone who engages in at least 2 game modes, this is almost nothing, in fact, it's worse than nothing. Spec templates should just be free. I'm more accepting of armor templates because they function as additional storage for armor items which was a big hog of space before. In fact, just remove Spec templates entirely and just make build loadouts character based instead of account wide, and give all the slots for free.

The worst thing that build templates did is that it took away the split of your character's build loadout between PvE and PvP. You have to go through the trouble of switching your build whenever you switch modes, or use one of your precious slots to get a sliver of the convenience you had before this feature was implemented. What's worse is that it muddies the PvP culture: people are more likely to just run their PvE build than engage in building something for PvP, and what's worse about that is that the player is also likely to run into an annoying disjoint if any of their traits or skills are balanced differently. This system is actively bad for getting new players into PvP. As a middle ground, can we at least have separate templates for PvE, PvP, and WvW.


3. Black Lion Chests and skins from tickets are kitten for the same reason mounts are. It's actually the exact same issue as mounts except a little more tolerable due to the skins being purchasable via gold (but the mounts can also be bought with gold because gold and gems are exchangeable currencies). Why aren't these hundreds of skins obtainable in some way in game? Greed is the answer. They're so predatory to the right mindset too.

 

 

The more I think about these terrible anti-consumer issues the more upset I get. This game would have been leagues better if the gem store didn't actually exist and we just had to pay a monthly fee; imagine it... for the low price of 15$ a month you could have had 8 armor template slots, 32 build templates per character, 10 bag slots on all characters, 500 bank slots, all mount skins, armor skins, weapon skins, gliders, novelties obtainable in game via achievements or specific rewards (with maybe a handful reserved for a reasonable real money shop), and unlimited character slots. a 10,000$ value just for 15$ a month from the player base.... wowie. kitten this f2p model.

Sounds like you enjoy WoW, stop trying to turn this game into that.

[Larvath.9760]

18 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

FF14 and WoW both are monthly sub games and both have MUCH better track records for consistent updates and bug fixes.

lol, no they don't.

Yes they have patches but no way MUCH better track record.

Stop exaggerating.

[SlayerXX.7138]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't need proof

I know you don't. You have opinions.

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean ... let's put that burden on you as well then.

How about you proof or provide some kind of explanation why there are no tradeoffs what so ever with the gem model before you angrily demand proof and explanations of others. I rather not waste anymore time with this "discussion". I explained my point of view. You declared it to be wrong, lets leave it at that.

16 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

It's not a 'free to play' business model.  Get your facts right.  It's Buy-to-Play.

This is just weak. You know what I meant. The current model. Also factual incorrect as core guild wars is free. https://buy.guildwars2.com/en-us if you need another source to dismiss. In addition to that it is a misquote as I called it "free to play, buy for extra".

Don't be dismissive of people who don't like the bad parts about the gem model. Its a valid complain with a simple solution just don't play the game. The gem store with it's overpriced layouts  and mount loot boxes is here to stay. Also I gonna stop responding to you guys as you guys clearly just want to win an argument on the internet.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Gehenna.3625]

19 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

FF14 and WoW both are monthly sub games and both have MUCH better track records for consistent updates and bug fixes.

SWTOR is also a sub game, don't let their F2P trial fool you...If you want to play all the content you do need a sub....but that game doesn't have a good track record of consistent updates, in fact it's pretty poor. My point is that subs don't guarantee lots of content. WoW and FF XIV are made by companies that stand behind their products. I mean Blizzard might've gone down the tubes recently, but still. Hell, Square Enix even redid FF XIV after the initial failure. I bet neither EA nor NcSoft would do that.

I think that content has more to do with who makes it (and pays for it) than whatever business model is applied. GW2 compared to SWTOR is MUCH better at adding new content and doing bug fixes. The last few SWTOR expansions would be LS patches here.

 

[Obtena.7952]

22 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

How about you proof that there are no tradeoffs what so ever with the gem model before you angrily demand proof and explanations of others. I rather not waste anymore time with this "discussion".

I have no intention of doing such a thing because that was never my point. My point here is pretty simple ... credits for an expansion are not an indication of budget allocations for that product.

I mean ... you want proof ... just look at the credits and observe there isn't budgeting information on it. What more do you want? Again, you think the credits indication budgets for GW2 EOD expansion? Then it shouldn't be hard for you to explain how you used the credits to make ANY relationship to what was budgeted for EOD wherever you want to claim it went.

... but you can't, because the fact is that using credits to estimate or make claims about where the revenues went for budgetting is ... absurd. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[ArchonWing.9480]

28 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Don't be angry at people who don't like the bad parts about the gem model. Its a valid complain with a simple solution just don't play the game. The gem store with it's overpriced layouts  and mount loot boxes is here to stay. Also I gonna stop responding to you guys as you guys clearly just want to win an argument on the internet.

 Just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they're angry.

If you're going to open a discussion, you're just going to have to accept the burden of proof is on you when you make a strong point.

It's just clear that people value certain issues in the game much more differently than you.

I mean I don't like Black Lion chests and dislike skins restricted to them myself, but I also don't see this as a massive issue.

Edited May 31, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Redfeather.6401]

3 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

SWTOR is also a sub game, don't let their F2P trial fool you...If you want to play all the content you do need a sub....but that game doesn't have a good track record of consistent updates, in fact it's pretty poor.

 

We got to be honest about it. You only have to sub for one month and can let it end, to forever get access to all content that was released up till that month. That's how their model works. It permanently updates your account's content access even without a sub remaining active.

[Dante.1508]

16 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You seem to think that you can buy a lot for 1 billion credits in SWTOR but all the cool stuff costs that much, so being a billionaire means jack all. You spend billions as well after all.

And indeed what you suggest does require real money and that's the thing for a lot of people here. They don't want to or can't afford to spend real money. For them, this system is definitely better.

SWTOR has lightsaber skins that cost more than 50AU dollars and they weren't available anymore on the GTN when I still played because 1 billion credits wasn't enough for them (and it's the max you can ask).

Over here you can can buy those 50AU dollar mounts with in game gold.

Also SWTOR has extremely little in skins that you can earn in game. GW2 has a TON of skins you can earn in game. That alone makes the set up of GW2 better imo.

So yeah, those are my reasons and if you don't agree, well, that's cool. 

Didn't last time i played but it was more than a year ago so who knows now?

[Gehenna.3625]

11 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

We got to be honest about it. You only have to sub for one month and can let it end, to forever get access to all content that was released up till that month. That's how their model works. It permanently updates your account's content access even without a sub remaining active.

As a new player you have to sub only once to get all current expansions indeed, but there are many restrictions when you stop your sub and you can't do raids either. Endgame you essentially need a sub for as such. It's too complex to go into too much detail but pvp matches and dungeons have harsh restrictions on how often you can play them and which rewards you can get when you are not subbed.

But more to the point you also cannot have more than 1 million credits when you're not subbed and also your credit gain is severely restricted (surplus credits are put into escrow though) so that's a big deal when it comes to things costing 100s of millions up to 1 billion. Escrow items also cost more than 1 million credits.

So you have to spend real money to get access to it. That alone makes the idea of using credits to get cash shop items only viable when you're subbed. And if you just sub from time to time to have access to your surplus credits, you won't have as many credits as subbed players. So that puts you at a severe disadvantage on the market as it is.

 

[Crystal Test.5620]

First of all gold is obtainable so basically you can buy anything. If you don't like the shop, then just ignore it. It seems to me you want all skins and stuff for free or  almost easy way to get them. Gold is easy, do that. 2nd the gemstore is there for people that want to buy stuff and skip the farming or playing. GW2 is free so of course they need to do something like the gemstore. Servers cost money. Simple. In GW2 you DO NOT have to do stuff. It's a choice.

[Dreams.3128]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:17 PM, Dante.1508 said:

I quit over quite a few reasons..

• My builds get nerfed in owpve due to "balance" patches.
• The lack of rewards in owpve is totally crap. "you don't need it" isn't an argument.
• The difficulty of the content wears me down.
• owpve collectable skins in general are terrible.
• The over use of meta trains in owpve drives me away.
• The gems to gold conversion is bs... way too low.

I totally expect to take another break when Engi and a few other classes get destroyed on 28th june..

 

I laughed out loud at this because the statement of: owpve are crap is so far from the truth its actually funny. Most of my funds and fashion came from OwPVE alone.

 

They're not crap it's just not the rewards YOU specifically want.

[ugrakarma.9416]

I currently put in $50/month since I reorganized myself financially. And I live in a third world country with a terrible exchange rate (1 dollar cost 5 of my country currency).

I like the idea of "sustaining the game".

But I have as a personal rule not to convert gem into gold. I only use gems when interesting skins come out.

Edited June 1, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

Wow never read a post quite rude, ignorant and entitled. 

1. Not everyone can afford the "low" monthly sub. 15usd is still a big amount for us 3rd worlders. 

2. Cash shop is purely cosmetic, and some QoL contents. Skins are not needed, you wanting it doesn't mean game should cater to it. 

3. They have a gold/gem system, which I think is a great thing especially for a game without sub. 

 

P.s all my mount skins, QoL, I bought with gold/gems. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Blue D Phoenix.7260