Untamed Ambush skills.

[Beddo.1907]

I'm looking for opinions about Unleashed ambush skills. Feel free to just say yes/no, but I'd like to get as much information as possible. (A tip: shift+enter really helps with making the posts clean)

Main questions:
-Do ambush skills feel rewarding and/or impactful?
-How easy/hard are they to use consistently? (Managing the CD and/or hitting the oponent)
-Do you feel like the skill being tied to Unleash state swap disrupts the flow of the kit?
-Are you satisfied with ambush visuals and should legendaries alter them?
-Do Ambush skills have a potential to be a viable Untamed mechanic or would it be better to shift the power to the rest of the kit?
-Is power lvl of each skill close to each other or are some of them under/overperforming?
-If you could change them, what would you change?

Edited June 16, 2022 by Beddo.1907

[Lysico.4906]

Soulbeast is all around better.   
 

amush skills have no impact

Edited June 17, 2022 by Lysico.4906

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

I feel like ambush skills take way too long for the damage they deal. There's a reason the untamed benches (that exist) literally just ignores them.

Ease of hitting depends on the weapon, for example shortbow completely messes up the flow of the weapon and is annoying to use whereas the melee ones tend to be a bit easier

I've heard axe does well, but I haven't used it. Again, underwhelming for the time it takes to use for the most part.

Shift the power to the rest of the kit. Keep the ambush skills, at least on the non-hammer weapons, since it at least gives something to the terrible half-weaver aspect of it.

The skill being tied to unleash is probably the only thing I like about the concept.

[Puck.3697]

Ambushs IMHO follow the rest of the suit with untamed. 

Good in pvp terrible in pve. 

I don't think untamed is built for pve content. It plays like a core ranger effectively in pve it seems to primarily exist for pvp. 

Sadly I don't think arena net will change their minds either. 

Spellbreaker never got made good in pve content either and followed a similar path of being built for pvp modes. 

[Lazze.9870]

On 6/17/2022 at 9:22 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

pellbreaker never got made good in pve content either and followed a similar path of being built for pvp modes. 

Unlike Untamed, Spellbreaker was also a solid addition to WvW. At that point it is fine if it doesn't excell in PvE in comparison to its other spec.

Untamed is a decent PvP spec with nothing else going for it.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Unliked Untamed, Spellbreaker was also a solid addition to WvW. At that point it is fine if it doesn't excell in PvE in comparison to its other spec.

Untamed is a decent PvP spec with nothing else going for it.

Well it did. But it also got hard nerfed pretty fast and became not so good in spvp. And recently got nerfed in wvwvw. Its now bad in every game mode. 

So by the time untamed came out if anything its a leg above spellbreaker really. 

I ain't justifying untamed being bad in pve, I'm simply saying I don't think anet cares about its pve balancing as it isn't of any specific use. 

It has nothing unique. It does nothing unique. In the pve world it lacks a identity to create demand for it. 

All it can do is provide core ranger utility and do dps. 

The only way untamed would be useful is if it took a condition dps role. Or it completely made soulbeast useless effectively. 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[mikexg.7329]

16 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I'm looking for opinions about Unleashed ambush skills. Feel free to just say yes/no, but I'd like to get as much information as possible. (A tip: shift+enter really helps with making the posts clean)

Main questions:
-Do ambush skills feel rewarding and/or impactful?
-How easy/hard are they to use consistently? (Managing the CD and/or hitting the oponent)
-Do you feel like the skill being tied to Unleash state swap disrupts the flow of the kit?
-Are you satisfied with ambush visuals and should legendaries alter them?
-Do Ambush skills have a potential to be a viable Untamed mechanic or would it be better to shift the power to the rest of the kit?
-Is power lvl of each skill close to each other or are some of them under/overperforming?
-If you could change them, what would you change?

-Do ambush skills feel rewarding and/or impactful?
They are impactful but clunky, therefore not rewarding.

-How easy/hard are they to use consistently? (Managing the CD and/or hitting the oponent)
I wouldn't say they are "hard" but they certainly are not smooth fluid gameplay.  Too many things happen when swapping stances just to use an ambush skill and then swap stances back.  Honestly just making it so it happens regardless of stance, or even have 1 ambush skill/timer for each stance so whenever you swap you have an ambush skill, they could even be slightly different.

-Do you feel like the skill being tied to Unleash state swap disrupts the flow of the kit?
Most of the time, but not always.  It is rare, but when you execute everything perfectly it is pretty cool.  Ultimately clunky

-Are you satisfied with ambush visuals and should legendaries alter them?
No and Yes

-Do Ambush skills have a potential to be a viable Untamed mechanic or would it be better to shift the power to the rest of the kit?
They have potential, sure, but need to be reworked and balanced along with the rest of untamed.  I had an interesting thought that instead of offensive and defensive stance there could be a Power/strike/defensive stance and a Condi damage/condi clense/resistance stance.  That way the balance would not be offensive and defensive but instead how you deal damage and how you survive different damage.  Would be nice to see a hybrid build be the "meta" version of the class

-Is power lvl of each skill close to each other or are some of them under/overperforming?
Axe seems to be pretty cool, Shortbow needs work, it is hard to land, Hammer and GS are cool, have yet to fully test the rest.

-If you could change them, what would you change?
I may have already stated some ideas in previous answers.  I wouldn't have them replace the auto attack skill.  I would have them either create another button, or even just happen when you swap unleashed state, you are most likely going to use it right away anyway. (would only auto trigger if you are currently attacking/engaged in combat)

[PolarBear.3961]

I never use ambush cuz i never switch the gross green garbage between me and my pet xD. Its 100% on my ranger for that sweet increased damage buff.

[Duglaive.5236]

I make decent use of the GS & LB ambushes. Just one of the things that make Untamed my favorite core build 

[enkeny.6937]

23 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I'm looking for opinions about Unleashed ambush skills. Feel free to just say yes/no, but I'd like to get as much information as possible. (A tip: shift+enter really helps with making the posts clean)

Main questions:
-Do ambush skills feel rewarding and/or impactful?
-How easy/hard are they to use consistently? (Managing the CD and/or hitting the oponent)
-Do you feel like the skill being tied to Unleash state swap disrupts the flow of the kit?
-Are you satisfied with ambush visuals and should legendaries alter them?
-Do Ambush skills have a potential to be a viable Untamed mechanic or would it be better to shift the power to the rest of the kit?
-Is power lvl of each skill close to each other or are some of them under/overperforming?
-If you could change them, what would you change?

-Do ambush skills feel rewarding and/or impactful?
- It depends. hiting 30k+ is nice, but it is a joke, that hammer loose dps because ambush, shortbow's stops the flow.

-How easy/hard are they to use consistently? (Managing the CD and/or hitting the oponent)
A blind/block is very irritating when you try to perform the ambush. Forest fortification and signet of the hunt can help, but using signet of the hunt is not very useful, expect a when blocking a lot (I'm looking you, Subject six!)
Timing is not bad, but compare to other ambush skills, cd is way too long. 2 weapon swap is 18 sec, ambush cd is 15 do you can ambush with your main weapon set, 

-Do you feel like the skill being tied to Unleash state swap disrupts the flow of the kit?
not really, F5 -> F1, F2, F3, -> F5, ambush. some mini rotation.

-Are you satisfied with ambush visuals and should legendaries alter them?
Yes, I am. No they shouldn't.

-Do Ambush skills have a potential to be a viable Untamed mechanic or would it be better to shift the power to the rest of the kit?
I like the ambush skills, as a concept. Channelling the primal force to you from your pet makes a very fierce attack. 

-Is power lvl of each skill close to each other or are some of them under/overperforming?
- they are very different. Longbow, sword are nice, axe and great-sword are pretty good. Hammer and short-bow are bad. 

-If you could change them, what would you change?
need some testing, but lower cd, damage increase for hammer, remove the ground targeting from short-bow, and spread some mushrooms on hit too. Like if the target is hit, then spread ~5 mushroom spores around the target at random.
(while lowering the cd maybe the damage can be lower, but it depends, need tests. Now I do 2/3 of the damage as untamed as I do with soulbeast, so there is room for improving untamed)
 

[AstralFrost.6423]

I feel that the Unleash mechanic in general is impactful however requires a lot of hurdles to pull off in a short period and a single misstep can ruin the entire combo.

 

For example, I would typically look to combo as follows:

- land a disable

- Unleash

- F1

- F3

- F2

- Unleash

- Ambush

 

However if I miss the disable I'm already halfway through the combo before I realise and the impact is massively decreased. Then sometimes the pet will just teleport to nowhere on its F1, wasting a lot of damage on the other abilities. It's also a lot of buttons to press before I can use my ambush. Unleash also has a cooldown of it's own, and I often do the whole combo and press Unleash too early, wasting time to get off the attack. Also sometimes I think I've done the Ambush attack and interrupt it with another ability or weapon swap, completely wasting it. Then the Ambush attack itself has only a 4 second window to activate and if I get stunned or knocked out of range in that time it can time out. I find it to be an impactful combo when I can land it, but there's a lot that can go wrong along the way.

Edited June 18, 2022 by AstralFrost.6423

[Levetty.1279]

On 6/16/2022 at 11:46 PM, Beddo.1907 said:

Do you feel like the skill being tied to Unleash state swap disrupts the flow of the kit?

Leashing and then Unleashing to trigger an ambush isn't the smoothest gameplay but not the worst either. Main trouble is with Hammer where you will mostly be cycling through your skills and then suddenly your ranger is spinning around.

[Lazze.9870]

On 6/17/2022 at 4:19 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

And recently got nerfed in wvwvw. Its now bad in every game mode. 

So by the time untamed came out if anything its a leg above spellbreaker really. 

It's still useable in WvW, it doesn't hurt to have one in your squad. The bubble isn't a game changer anymore, but it still removes boons and blocks projectiles. The rest of the kit is as good as it ever was after the nerf to CC skills.

It's also still perfectly useable in PvP.

So no, I'd not say untamed is particularly above it.

I frankly don't care if Untamed is good in pve or not, soulbeast covers the damage role and druid (as flawed as it is) is still relevant as a support. I'd be happy if Untamed was on par with the current version of spellbreaker in wvw. As in, not completely shunned away from large scale battles.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

It's still useable in WvW, it doesn't hurt to have one in your squad.

It's also still perfectly useable in PvP.

So no, I'd not say untamed is particularly above it.

given the fact Boyce. Swapped to it from Warrior has climbed using untamed quite abit along side of other picks.. i'd say its very much likely its actually a Strong contender.. while boyce isnt a Untamed main, he even states its a Mile above warrior is right now.

and Sure it wouldnt hurt to have one in your Squad, but its effectiveness was dampened alot.

to try and say "its usuable in pvP". is a understatement. Warriors can Outplay and do well among ranked games sure. but Untamed is Just better. Dualists Dont really exist that much anymore, since so many proffessions got given the ability to be both a Dualist and a Teamfighter in a Singular build. theres no room for a Specc which can only fill a Dualist role anymore.

to Stack, its terrible at dealing with condi based Damage. and Realistically in a Pretty bad spot.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Lazze.9870]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

given the fact Boyce. Swapped to it from Warrior has climbed using untamed quite abit along side of other picks.. i'd say its very much likely its actually a Strong contender.. while boyce isnt a Untamed main, he even states its a Mile above warrior is right now.

He also plays bladesworn and spellbreaker and still does good.

The fact is, he hasn't touched untamed since the latest patch because they kittened up the skill queuing on pet skills.

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Lazze.9870 said:

He also plays bladesworn and spellbreaker and still does good.

The fact is, he hasn't touched untamed since the latest patch because they kittened up the skill queuing on pet skills.

Actually i've been informed hes Now gone back to untamed, apprantly a week after he Left it and moved onto other things hes gone back now.

I recently tuned in and asked him and he said Yah hes moved back to it.

He does, but he states again and again. He doesnt think its good lmao, He plays it because its what he Enjoys. its his Main proffession but hes in no way at all stating the proffession is good right now.