Oke we should talk about this NOW A-Net!

[Myror.7521]

First this post is nothing Personal in any means. I only want to know how do you want us to play this class at all.

 

So it seems A-Net is trying to push us into a Support role once more with the incoming patch. I said this before but will say it once again. I could see where A-Net maybe want us to be. The Balance Patch over all doing somewhat good changes. The made banners more supportish oriented. They buff the Support traitline to made sure we are able to use it and that it is somewhat good to use. They also give us a +5% crit chance traitline to compensate the lost of the stat boosts. 

Besides that all this changes are just good in itself there are some points that are the reason why warrior will now see no play in any hard content in pve and the big 2 points i will point out here:

 

1. The reworked skills are on wrong traitlines|

Yes you hear it right. The over all changes are good but heck. The 5%crit boost one should have been in disciplin and not in arms (the condi traitline itself). Also why you let the banner boost one just exist in disciplin it would made more sence in tacics since banners are 100% support.

 

2. There actually is no Support e-spec|

Why you just take warrior in a Support place when all the class get is just 3 dps e-specs. Those moves made 0 sence. And those moves are the reason why the whole class is in the state it actually is. Its just garbage. It could heal but not good to your  teammates. It could dps but after next patch its like about 8k less dps than most other classes do. It could gain boons. But its just migth (a boon that every class could gain as side effect) OR quickness after next patch. (I specialy said OR cause it seems like they are splitt) and nothing more while classes like guardian could made more boons and dps. Like warrior is now outperformed by near every class in every role when it comes to hard content.

 

Hope you get and see the mistakes that are done. Hope A-Net will fix the mistakes that are done a soon as possible. Also state tuned warr Mains and never give up you endless hope 😉!

[anbujackson.9564]

To be honest, instead of forcing the support in core, they might as well focus on dps instead since support in PvE simply cant keep up.

[Myror.7521]

@anbujackson.9564 yes exactly! I said just a year ago that it made no sence that they try to made support warr a thing. Even in pvp it was just simply bad. (With bad i mean it was simply not enjoyable to play since it was simply shoutspam carry....... same goes for bladesworn btw!) And now they try the same for pve like ........ xD. 

I mean it would work...... if we finaly would have a support e-spec at all lmao.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Pati.2438

[DKRathalos.9625]

8 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

1. The reworked skills are on wrong traitlines|

Yes you hear it right. The over all changes are good but heck. The 5%crit boost one should have been in disciplin and not in arms (the condi traitline itself). Also why you let the banner boost one just exist in disciplin it would made more sence in tacics since banners are 100% support.

But here is the thing Pati, Arms stated about crit and condi so technically speaking it's kind of on the correct place. If it were me I would ask the [Axe Master] Discipline Grandmaster Trait moved to Arms, then move 1 GM Arms to Disc.

Doing this guarantee power version will take Strength+Arms, of course there are few traits on Arms which need to be fixed too in order to fit the power playstyle.

[Myror.7521]

@DKRathalos.9625 well rp wise your just right. But letz be honest. Warr as its state now after the inc balance patch will be death and we need at least something in disciplin to keep up the missing dmg.

 

But as you said it would made sence since arms used to be the crit/condi traitline. However that design would maybe only work if they would do 2 things.

 

1. Rework arms so it made more sence to use it for damage

2. Made fast hands baseline 

 

But then you would realise that you miss the axe Master traitline to keep up your adrenalin and the  warriors Sprint from disciplin. So all in all it would made more sence to make arms the condition traitline and keep disciplin as the 5 sek sweap damage boost line 😀

Edited June 27, 2022 by Pati.2438

[DKRathalos.9625]

Well Technically speaking we don't even need to buff Disc if you Move Axe Master to Arms Grandmaster.

We just need the Axe Grandmaster on Arms then rework Arms, I mean technically speaking (again) Radiance For Guardian and Firearms for Engi also serve the same purpose, Crit and Condi. Both Condi and Power for Guardian will take Radiance, Both Engi will take Firearms, why can't we?

 

Since Most power will go Strength Arms anyway if the changes happens no need to buff disc, maybe can be tweaked a bit but the changes won't matter since we don't take Disc Anymore.

[Myror.7521]

@DKRathalos.9625 well but you need disciplin for 5 sek weaponsweap and to deal with immob in pvp. Techicaly your just right as said but i would prefer when they reworked some arm traits for better condi controle while disciplin would be the adrenalin stacking traitline with a bit of Overall dmg buffs (condi and Power)

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Been a while since I posted an Arms rework on the Omnibus and was discussing it with Lan. Funny how the numbers we added then make more sense now. I'd love to see something like this. 

Reworked Arms

 

Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury (improved fury post-patch)

 

Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

 

Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (20 seconds) 

 

Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

 

Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)  

 

Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

 

Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-Flanking an enemy increases Critical hit chance by 5%. Successfully striking foes from behind or the flank deals bonus strike dmg (5%)

 

Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%) 

 

Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%). 50% chance to bleed on crit for 3 sec, no ICD. 

 

Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+25 condi dmg, max 10 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 1% per stack (10% at max capacity) 

 

Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant a stack of Unblockable per adrenaline bar spent (12 sec ICD) 

 

Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds) - or just bring Axe mastery here. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098

[oscuro.9720]

Tbh, a large portion of the warrior forum has called for warrior to have support options (not everyone, but a fair number). Anet is now expanding warrior support options. You can be critical of how well they are implemented, but it seems to me that the direction of Anet and past stated desires of the Warrior forum are aligned. 

[Mungrul.9358]

Thing is, when Warrior had more CC that was easily accessible than any other profession, it HAD a support role: damage denial.

If something / someone is knocked down or stunned or dazed, it's not attacking, therefore it's not damaging anyone, therefore team members are not having to be healed  / protected.

That's pretty effective at supporting your team.

Elite specs and homogenisation have eaten in to this role over time, and now every profession has access to CC that's equally as, if not more effective than a warrior's, that role has disappeared.

 

And of course, I don't think the current balance team are clever enough to recognise CC as support.

[eXruina.4956]

2 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Tbh, a large portion of the warrior forum has called for warrior to have support options (not everyone, but a fair number). Anet is now expanding warrior support options. You can be critical of how well they are implemented, but it seems to me that the direction of Anet and past stated desires of the Warrior forum are aligned. 

i agree with this, im all for having support options,

 

its just that f*ing feb 2020 patch, its bad enough all the 💩 they left over the years, they f*ing had to nerf warrior's already low coefficients + blanket nerf to power and removal of damage from cc skills above that. as well as outdated weapon skills not to mention breaking warrior mechanics. they broke warriors mechanics introduced a new mechanic in it's place and then gutted that as well.

 

the main issue isn't that theyre inteoducing support.

 

the issue is, why arent they f*ing addressing the things they broke. warrior will remain 💩 until it is addressed no matter what they introduce.

 

worse if they slap something op then nerf it to oblivion, breaking other things in the process and adding to the 💩 they left, which is the bulk of warrior problems today.

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

warrior had a working def tree and healing over time mechanic in place, they gutted that and introduced might heal, then they gutted might heal, lowered coefficients and split it into 2 traitlines. tactics and strength, now we need to run both to even remotely sustain, then they gutted the healing coefficients even more, and gutted might gain and might duration as well as adrenaline gain because spellbreaker was good, they didnt just directly address spellbreaker they had to break other things along with it.

they kittened with gs it was the weapon that was holding warrior afloat, now it does no damage, and  now all warrior power weapons do kitten after the feb 2020 patch. because they didnt just do the blanket nerf they f*d all of warriors bread and butter skills and mechanics.

not counting they completely neutered berserker in pvp modes, they kittened with animation speed. introduced resistance then gutted it but forgot to change warrior defensive skills with resistance into resolution so warrior lost even more survivability. etc.. list goes on.

all their 💩 should be compiled and stickied on the warrior forums.

seriously they think warriors are upset with banner changes? 

Edited June 27, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

the coming june 28 2022 patch isn't even bad truth be told, but now theres no reason to bring war unless that quickness we spitting out is 100% uptime? why? cuz every other class exists and bring more to the table. dps, boons, heals, warrior is mediocre in all roles.

Edited June 27, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

its absurd the things i been reading, people think 100b still does damage, or that warrior has an infinite number of blocks. its evident they don't know a thing about warrior. they need a reality check.

 

have they seen the mesmers running around in wvw  the condi virtuosos, even the mirages with 1 dodge, the guardians, the rangers. the perma stealth teefs, in the hands of the good and competent players. the walking montages.

Edited June 27, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

what im looking at right now is the potential for perma 25 might/pulsing might, can't test it til its live. maybe that'll save us, but even if it does i have no doubt they'll gut it eventually and break other things in the process.

as for perma resistance, we've had tons of resistance for a long time now, it won't do kitten, maybe for group pvp since the banner shares it, at best a counter for immobeast in zerg fights.

permanent walking light field is nice too with axe 5 for cleansing bolts and other combos if thats how its gonna work.

as for pve, theres absolutely no reason to bring war unless 100% quick uptime. might and fury are already overabundant. there are always other classes that bring more to the table. also *cough firebrand *cough

this is all speculation will have to see the live numbers and functions to judge.

Edited June 27, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Virgarth.6354]

15 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

1. The reworked skills are on wrong traitlines|

Yes you hear it right. The over all changes are good but heck. The 5%crit boost one should have been in disciplin and not in arms (the condi traitline itself). Also why you let the banner boost one just exist in disciplin it would made more sence in tacics since banners are 100% support.

 

 

Agree on the lacking of precision and agree on trait lines being totally messed up... As I already said into another thread the solution would be

- Passive perk +precision in the Arms trait line (which makes sense cuz of expertise conversion), something like a +100 precision would work.

- Slectable perk in defense that convert 10% of toughness in power should also convert into precision (the same way the strength trailine does convert power into ferocity and vitality)... 

Also agree on some support trait not being in the right perk line... A good example is the ambiguous presence of healing related to power and might in both strength and tactics... I mean, i can accept having ferocity buffs in arm trailine (which is mainly condi), but being almost forced to choose strength for being a support it doesn't really make any sense to me... Same for banners in the disci line which is even more senseless...

As far as I understand I guess some of the devs (or even everyone) hadn't play warrior in a while, expecially the core one.

[Obtena.7952]

Let's see how many confused emojis THIS gets:

15 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

1. The reworked skills are on wrong traitlines|

Yup, it feels bad to take Arms to get it but thematically, the 5% crit buff actually makes sense somewhere in there. I mean, just because we don't like the traitline doesn't mean Anet has to avoid using it for traits. The problem isn't the buff is going to Arms. The problem is that Arms use as a power build loads you with unwanted condi things. Ideally, the minor traits don't couple critting with condi DPS. Many ways to fix that. Seemingly zero bandwidth or will from Anet to do so. 

15 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

2. There actually is no Support e-spec

I don't really see a problem with that. Do you NEED a dedicated espec to support? You really shouldn't. I have no reason to think that fixes anything specific here, except to reduce choices to players on how to play a support warrior. 

[Infinity.2876]

I feel that due to the patch all warriors who still want to play warrior will play condi beserker as it is pretty much the only untouched warrior build.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong

Edited June 27, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[DKRathalos.9625]

7 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@DKRathalos.9625 well but you need disciplin for 5 sek weaponsweap and to deal with immob in pvp. Techicaly your just right as said but i would prefer when they reworked some arm traits for better condi controle while disciplin would be the adrenalin stacking traitline with a bit of Overall dmg buffs (condi and Power)

Oh for sure but that's the thing if you move Axe Mastery to Arms. The PvE version will become Strength-Arms, the PvP/WvW version will go for Strength-Disc (well of course this need more than spec/trait balancing if we want warrior to be quite viable as DPS for WvW). Because now they will take Disc as utility to cleanse condi, cleanse immob via warrior sprint, better adrenaline control overall.

 

Thing now is for PvE Disc doesn't give you that much benefit, note that the argument below this I assume that berserker power stay axe/axe or doesn't really need to weapon swap that much (Reminder once again this is from PvE standpoint)

 

Minor Adept: Versatile rage (gain adrenaline on weapon swap), only benefit just in case you don't crit and not make the adrenaline reach max to hit the primal burst.

Major Adept 1: Crack Shot > Nothing this is for ranged weapon
Major Adept 2: Warrior Sprint > Valuable, extra 10% damage under swiftness
Major Adept 3: Vengeful Return > nothing, no one ever use this

 

Minor Master: Fast hand > nothing if you stay axe/axe, no need for weapon swap (but won't refuse if become baseline, will be a nice QoL upgrade)

Major Master 1: Double Standard > Nothing Banner useless now
Major Master 2: Destruction of the Empowered > Nothing because Boss never have boon, and even if it got boon usually better to remove that boons
Major Master 3: Brawler's Recovery > Nothing since we don't weapon swap that much also remove 1 condi, in a party usually ppl will already bring better cleanse during boss fight.

(note that the whole master line is literally blanks aka nothing)

 

Minor Grandmaster: Versatile power > Nothing since 1 we don't weapon swap that much, 2 only gives 2 might? we already gain so much might if using the right composition (FB,Druid etc2)

Major Grandmaster 1: Axe Mastery > Most Valuable
Major Grandmaster 2: Heightened Focus > Nothing, no one ever use this.

Major Grandmaster 3: Burst Mastery > Nothing, Axe mastery is better.

So for those whole Disc Tree you only benefit from Axe Mastery and Warrior Sprint for PvE.

I'd rather just move Axe Mastery to @Grand Marshal.4098 Arm's design and you will get more benefit on that. Now if Axe Mastery already moved to Arms, we can redesign or tweaked Disc to be more suitable for PvP/WvW traitline.

 

Using his design I will pick Major Adept 1, Major Master 2, Major Grandmaster 3.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

Oh for sure but that's the thing if you move Axe Mastery to Arms. The PvE version will become Strength-Arms, the PvP/WvW version will go for Strength-Disc (well of course this need more than spec/trait balancing if we want warrior to be quite viable as DPS for WvW). Because now they will take Disc as utility to cleanse condi, cleanse immob via warrior sprint, better adrenaline control overall.

 

Thing now is for PvE Disc doesn't give you that much benefit, note that the argument below this I assume that berserker power stay axe/axe or doesn't really need to weapon swap that much (Reminder once again this is from PvE standpoint)

 

Minor Adept: Versatile rage (gain adrenaline on weapon swap), only benefit just in case you don't crit and not make the adrenaline reach max to hit the primal burst.

Major Adept 1: Crack Shot > Nothing this is for ranged weapon
Major Adept 2: Warrior Sprint > Valuable, extra 10% damage under swiftness
Major Adept 3: Vengeful Return > nothing, no one ever use this

 

Minor Master: Fast hand > nothing if you stay axe/axe, no need for weapon swap (but won't refuse if become baseline, will be a nice QoL upgrade)

Major Master 1: Double Standard > Nothing Banner useless now
Major Master 2: Destruction of the Empowered > Nothing because Boss never have boon, and even if it got boon usually better to remove that boons
Major Master 3: Brawler's Recovery > Nothing since we don't weapon swap that much also remove 1 condi, in a party usually ppl will already bring better cleanse during boss fight.

(note that the whole master line is literally blanks aka nothing)

 

Minor Grandmaster: Versatile power > Nothing since 1 we don't weapon swap that much, 2 only gives 2 might? we already gain so much might if using the right composition (FB,Druid etc2)

Major Grandmaster 1: Axe Mastery > Most Valuable
Major Grandmaster 2: Heightened Focus > Nothing, no one ever use this.

Major Grandmaster 3: Burst Mastery > Nothing, Axe mastery is better.

So for those whole Disc Tree you only benefit from Axe Mastery and Warrior Sprint for PvE.

I'd rather just move Axe Mastery to @Grand Marshal.4098 Arm's design and you will get more benefit on that. Now if Axe Mastery already moved to Arms, we can redesign or tweaked Disc to be more suitable for PvP/WvW traitline.

 

Using his design I will pick Major Adept 1, Major Master 2, Major Grandmaster 3.

Overall the idea of the arms rework is to promote condi dmg, precision and ferocity and to remove dual wielding. Some dmg modifers that can work for both via vulnerability which warrior can have great synergy with. Some added defense via Furious and heal on crit (could clash with Sun and Moon style, but ideally that trait should be reworked imo). 

Otherwise it's a very appealing line if reworked for power and condi builds. Especially in PvE where unblockables and might are usually not needed in the former's case or in abundance in the latter's case. 

So by adding a lesser signet of fury you promote some dmg buffing beyond might with current lesser might signet and introduce a solid adrenaline building option regardless of weapon. Same with fury ticking some adrenaline instesd of rolling that into furious. If there is too much adrenaline already, you can remove adrenaline buildup from axr mastery and give it back additional ferocity. 

Ultimately, you have options in all 3 tiers of traits to go for extra precision/crit chance unlike now where you absolutely have to choose 100%+ crit on bursts and current unsuspecting foe is useless. 

Otherwise I still don't understand why Anet chose to maintain Heightened Focus as a Discipline Grandmaster when much better traits could take it's place, especially now that personal quickness won't be an issue to warriors I suppose (btw I could make a perma solo quickness warr build before this change and I didn't even need frenzy or heightened focus if on Berserker). 

[Myror.7521]

@DKRathalos.9625 well yes but i think for both pvp and pve. And the only thing that would made the move from disciplin into arms not wurf is simply fast hands and warriors sprint. This comb of things is nessesary in pvp and when you move the axe traitline out of it it would also kill builds variable. So idk man bring a power/condi damage buff in disciplin instead of rework both traitlines would be by far the better and easiest option xd

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@DKRathalos.9625 well yes but i think for both pvp and pve. And the only thing that would made the move from disciplin into arms not wurf is simply fast hands and warriors sprint. This comb of things is nessesary in pvp and when you move the axe traitline out of it it would also kill builds variable. So idk man bring a power/condi damage buff in disciplin instead of rework both traitlines would be by far the better and easiest option xd

I persobally don't have an issue always running Discipline for Warrior's Sprint. With Baseline Fast Hands even. But my issue is that I can't play SpB and Zerker with Arms or Defense without being a semi-meme. Hell, I can't play Berserker with tactics even! 

kitten the Berserker rework I suppose! 

I just want for once to be able to have a meaningful Discipline X Arms, or Discipline X Defense build. One that doesn't require Strength or Tactics to survive and be effective. 

I would not be asking for much, since warrior is all around tailored to be a DPS. So may as well make all our DPS and selfish sustain options viable! 

Not that I'll play the game for at least 3 months anyway now xD

[DKRathalos.9625]

I honestly like the arms design by Grand because it will streamline the need for "max Damage" into Arms.

So Power variant will use Strength and Arms, Condi Variant will use Arms and Disc (because condi variant will need to swap weapon constantly). This way we have like a lot of opportunity to redesign Disc, give some more meaningful trait options.

I think at least the idea on each Core spec should be like this

Strength: Power Focus
Arms: Boost Crit and Condi
Disc: Personal Utility (If being generous, I think someone mention about adding a utility which will help Condi, so at least condi warrior will be more competitive since maybe condi boost from the Arms tree is not enough. Tbf I think that's good idea because condi warrior is way behind compared to other condi classes)

Tactic: Team Utility (Banner trait should move here but I think we already talk too much about this yet anet ignores)

Defense: Personal Tanky

[eXruina.4956]

i like the changes proposed by grand marshal too, people have come up with all sorts of things over the years which could've pushed warrior into a better state, its just that they're not really considering it and they aren't pushing anything good out either.

 

as it looks, don't think any real work was ever being done on it at all. we had years to see how things push through.

[JTGuevara.9018]

23 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

First this post is nothing Personal in any means. I only want to know how do you want us to play this class at all.

 

So it seems A-Net is trying to push us into a Support role once more with the incoming patch. I said this before but will say it once again. I could see where A-Net maybe want us to be. The Balance Patch over all doing somewhat good changes. The made banners more supportish oriented. They buff the Support traitline to made sure we are able to use it and that it is somewhat good to use. They also give us a +5% crit chance traitline to compensate the lost of the stat boosts. 

Besides that all this changes are just good in itself there are some points that are the reason why warrior will now see no play in any hard content in pve and the big 2 points i will point out here:

 

1. The reworked skills are on wrong traitlines|

Yes you hear it right. The over all changes are good but heck. The 5%crit boost one should have been in disciplin and not in arms (the condi traitline itself). Also why you let the banner boost one just exist in disciplin it would made more sence in tacics since banners are 100% support.

 

2. There actually is no Support e-spec|

Why you just take warrior in a Support place when all the class get is just 3 dps e-specs. Those moves made 0 sence. And those moves are the reason why the whole class is in the state it actually is. Its just garbage. It could heal but not good to your  teammates. It could dps but after next patch its like about 8k less dps than most other classes do. It could gain boons. But its just migth (a boon that every class could gain as side effect) OR quickness after next patch. (I specialy said OR cause it seems like they are splitt) and nothing more while classes like guardian could made more boons and dps. Like warrior is now outperformed by near every class in every role when it comes to hard content.

 

Hope you get and see the mistakes that are done. Hope A-Net will fix the mistakes that are done a soon as possible. Also state tuned warr Mains and never give up you endless hope 😉!

heh...again....

Reworked banners, warhorn and Tactics traits just to accomodate ONE boon that we can barely keep up as is. It's just mind-boggling. Why not just...gasp...aggregate the quickness TO the banners!

Just...(shakes head)...Let me tell ya. Good luck seeing warriors in gw2 for 3 months, IF you can find one!