If they nerf Rifle

[Passerbye.6291]

5 minutes ago, Jaricko.6143 said:

With recent changes and a standard zerker set you can bench over 25k with any weapon (besides maybe elixir kit, have not tried that yet) 

It's just a case of people not understanding what is going on under the hood and falsely attributing the cause of it. Rifle is funny, but its not even the strongest auto attack. And i have seen stronger benchmarks with other weapons, with more utility than rifle. If someone wants the range, or just likes rifle i don't blame em though. Play how you want. 

if you want range, mortars still do more too, with higher range to boot, yeah mech needs to get nerfed, at least shouldn't do near 33k just spamming F1-2-3 but rifle definitely isn't the reason for it

 

[Teratus.2859]

44 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

It's pretty much in line with what you would expect to see form a LI build and in fact is even on the weaker side at that.

I only see people complain how "OP" the rifle supposedly is but I have yet to see a single person backing up these claims. All I see is "20-25k AA only DPS" in an "optimized golem setting" this or that seemingly willfully ignoring that other LI options like P/P DE unload spam is at about 28k (and has been for years) while being looked at as "too weak to be taken seriously for anything but OW" and the Harb SAA spam gets you comfortably over 30k but engi rifle is somehow "hilariously broken". If there is one thing that's actually broken then it's the animations but thats about it.

 

It's broken imo because of two factors, it's the auto and it's a ranged weapon.

Even on low effort builds breaking the 20k dps mark on autos is a little excessive if you ask me, and no ranged weapon should be putting out that much damage that quickly on it's auto in general.

 

Honestly I'm with Mukluk in thinking that it was unintentional.

But if it wasn't then as a Ranger Main who enjoys playing Longbow I'm going to call for some serious buffs to LB auto 😛
Our autos should fire 3 arrows at once for the same damage we currently have XD

[Passerbye.6291]

6 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It's broken imo because of two factors, it's the auto and it's a ranged weapon.

Even on low effort builds breaking the 20k dps mark on autos is a little excessive if you ask me, and no ranged weapon should be putting out that much damage that quickly on it's auto in general.

 

Honestly I'm with Mukluk in thinking that it was unintentional.

But if it wasn't then as a Ranger Main who enjoys playing Longbow I'm going to call for some serious buffs to LB auto 😛
Our autos should fire 3 arrows at once for the same damage we currently have XD

A 32k auto attack + F1-2-3 only build with an APM of 10 already existed before this patch

Edit: uses elite too, my bad, still 10 apm though and all skills are without animation on oyur character so you can randomly spam them.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Passerbye.6291

[Teratus.2859]

1 minute ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

A 32k auto attack + F1-2-3 only build with an APM of 10 already existed before this patch

Not the point.

It's bad to justify this op thing because that was op already anyway..

 

By that logic we might as well give Necro minions 30 times the damage output they currently have.

[Passerbye.6291]

1 minute ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Not the point.

It's bad to justify this op thing because that was op already anyway..

 

By that logic we might as well give Necro minions 30 times the damage output they currently have.

I literally just said it should get nerfed my dude, noone's defending that kitten, just saying, this patch wasn't what made things OP, just even easier lol.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Passerbye.6291

[Teratus.2859]

1 minute ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

I literally just said it should get nerfed my dude, noon's defending that kitten, just saying, this patch wasn't what made things OP, just even easier lol.

Ah, I only read your response to me.

Didn't come across that way.

[Cyninja.2954]

 

37k on a silly rotation (press buttons off cd with 3 signets).

 

Buuut it's only 37k. Yes, 37k in a non spotter, non banner, non any class buff world is pretty much top tier.

 

Buuut Virtuoso does just as much. Yes, Virtuoso is also busted.

 

Worst of all: it's not even fun.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Passerbye.6291]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

37k on a silly rotation (press buttons off cd with 3 signets).

 

Buuut it's only 37k. Yes, 37k in a non spotter, non banner, non any class buff world is pretty much top tier.

 

Worst of all: it's not even fun.

at least this one has some semblance of a gameplay lol

 

[Tails.9372]

21 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It's broken imo because of two factors, it's the auto and it's a ranged weapon.

Except this is not how engi works, "the AA" at best only hits around 10k even if you give it all the relevant buffs which is one of the reasons why the numbers don't change all that much if you exchange the rifle for something else, e.g.:

Here is me using the rifle to hit the test golem only with AAs and self buffs for over an hour: 10,7k DPS

Here is me using the pistol to hit the test golem only with AAs and self buffs for over an hour: 9852 DPS

As you can see the difference in DPS is only slightly above 8% because the bulk of the DPS does not come from the actual weapon which especially for Mechanist is a key part of the spec design (remember the whole "player 2 thing" they used to advertise the e-spec with?) and as such, while some might not like it, is not an issue that needs to be "fixed".

[Kodama.6453]

43 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It's broken imo because of two factors, it's the auto and it's a ranged weapon.

Even on low effort builds breaking the 20k dps mark on autos is a little excessive if you ask me, and no ranged weapon should be putting out that much damage that quickly on it's auto in general.

 

Honestly I'm with Mukluk in thinking that it was unintentional.

But if it wasn't then as a Ranger Main who enjoys playing Longbow I'm going to call for some serious buffs to LB auto 😛
Our autos should fire 3 arrows at once for the same damage we currently have XD

You are acting like every component of the rifle auto attack is dealing as much damage as a regular auto attack. Which is not the case.

The 2 bullets have a power coefficient of 0,3 each, then the grenade has a power coefficient of 0,4. So all 3 attacks together have a power coefficient of 1,0. That is slightly better than longbow ranger auto attack (0,9 power coefficient), but it is very far from being as strong as 3 longbow autos at once.

Sure, buff the longbow auto attack to a power coefficient of 1,0 or 1,1. But stop acting like these 3 hits are equal to 3 auto attacks, they are not. And the fact that these 3 hits have such low power coefficients already proves that this was indeed intentional.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

the whole point of the rework was to enhance power buiilds. they said so themselves. if you want to play condi pic another weapon

[Atticus.7194]

12 hours ago, Arolandis.8360 said:

I would want it done this way; by simply lowering the power coeffient slightly. The attack speed needs to stay because it helps with condi/hybrid builds.

I know a lot of people are calling it OP which could mean nerfs later, so I wanted to give my feedback on how I think it should be nerfed if is. I just don't want any nerfs ruining how it feels to actually use. Because the fast firing rate is fun and "feels" good.

I finally like rifles in this game please let us keep this buff.

Edit: I don't want Rifle nerfed. I'm just worried about it getting nerfed because I've been seeing a lot of "rifle OP pls nerf" crap (mostly on reddit).

No man sorry but this firing rate is incredibly toxic in a lot of modes. The speed causes multiple procs to be too high in pvp/wvw it renders a aegis obsolete it's just gotta go. And realisitically we all want to run around with a machine gun but you have to realize that having perma rapid fire just isn't healthy. 

[Kodama.6453]

8 minutes ago, Atticus.7194 said:

No man sorry but this firing rate is incredibly toxic in a lot of modes. The speed causes multiple procs to be too high in pvp/wvw it renders a aegis obsolete it's just gotta go. And realisitically we all want to run around with a machine gun but you have to realize that having perma rapid fire just isn't healthy. 

All of this stuff we can achieve already with flamethrower auto attacks. The fact that flamethrower hits 5 times per second has never really been problematic, so why should it be that problematic for rifle now?

[soul.9651]

I get that engi mains finally can feel that they are at the top of the world with they class but cmon...xd there are 9 classes at the game so let others have some fun too, u dont have to be at the top with the same class at every possible game mode. This feels like that they did absolute 0 testing on engi traits they changed in this balance patch....

[Atticus.7194]

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

All of this stuff we can achieve already with flamethrower auto attacks. The fact that flamethrower hits 5 times per second has never really been problematic, so why should it be that problematic for rifle now?

What's the range of that again? That's right there's a counter also if what you say is true then why isn't there a 30k 1 button AA flame thrower mech build?

[soul.9651]

 Another glorious rotation, anet fix the traits 🙂

[LilBiM.3581]

39 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

 Another glorious rotation, anet fix the traits 🙂

Now go do it in a raid.

[Kodama.6453]

53 minutes ago, Atticus.7194 said:

What's the range of that again? That's right there's a counter also if what you say is true then why isn't there a 30k 1 button AA flame thrower mech build?

I literally just did a test with flamethrower auto attack. 31k dps.

[soul.9651]

2 minutes ago, LilBiM.3581 said:

Now go do it in a raid.

People already done that 🙂

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

3 hours ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

Thank kittens that there are people who can count lol, some guy says autos do 35k, then links a 24k build that benches with 13 conditions instead of 10. All that not realizing rifle is actually one of the worst options for it.

yes and the people that can count disagree with you. look at all these 35k dps rifle videos

Edited June 30, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[LunieL.1738]

2 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

yes and the people that can count disagree with you

Lol you have already showed yourself 😄 Just words, no proofes at all. Are you still doing exotic zerk 35k AA benchmark?

Or you think that it is you the one who can count? :DDDD

Edited June 30, 2022 by LunieL.1738

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

3 minutes ago, LunieL.1738 said:

Lol you have already showed yourself 😄 Just words, no proofes at all. Are you still doing exotic zerk 35k AA benchmark?

 

 

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

37k on a silly rotation (press buttons off cd with 3 signets).

 

Buuut it's only 37k. Yes, 37k in a non spotter, non banner, non any class buff world is pretty much top tier.

 

Buuut Virtuoso does just as much. Yes, Virtuoso is also busted.

 

Worst of all: it's not even fun.

you were saying?????😎✋🎶

Edited June 30, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[LunieL.1738]

6 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

you were saying?????

I am saying that you still can't count at all. 11% of 37k damage comes from rifle AA. Sooo it's not 35k AA as you have said. If you know how to use calculator you can count it by yourself, if not - I could help you. 

And EVEN if we count Aim assisted rocked as a part of AA (that is incorrect but anyway) - it's 20% of dmg.

Anyways it's a proper gear and proper rotation, not just like you said '35K DAMAGE ONLY WITH RIFLE AA'. Any class with proper rotation and gear does significant damage. 

Still waiting for proofes of the your claims about 28k with no traits AA and 35k exotic zerk :DDD

Edited June 30, 2022 by LunieL.1738

[Passerbye.6291]

11 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

unusable before? i guess if it doesn't to do45K dps is garbage, right?
the rifle was usable just not optimal.
what it is now is just brainless. 28k on auto untraited going up to 35k with some synergetic traits and exotic zerker gear and regular amount of boons. THE AUTO ATTACK ALONE.
come the fluff on. this thing is quiet literally the most broken auto attack in this game right now. not to mention engi didn't need it. several mech builds from cdps and pdps, alac boon support and heal, holosmith, scrapper. all used and just below FB and scourge as the thrid and thus last must have profession in any mode or team comp.

Actually let me make it easier for you, where is that 35k auto attack only video love?

I get that you guys are excited but please educate yourselves at least, rifle auto attack is strictly inferior to more than one other option, you can literally do 32.7k using F1-2-3 and mace auto attacks only. Mech does need nerf, but ask for it with proper information, don't think it is because of rifle auto attacks.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Passerbye.6291

[Alcatraznc.3869]

11 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

the rifle was usable just not optimal.

 

Considering rifle is the only weapon available for power core engineer that's not a bad thing. All other classes have optimal weapon for their core and spec.

 

There is a "huge" debate that kits on engineer are strong while their weapon are lackluster. This is a good step to make their weapon on par with their kit. And again, each time people complain about rifle they just end up complaining about Mechanist in the end and not even the rifle itself. If rifle is the so OP weapon people claim then we should see core engineer roaming around and destroying everything with it. Or a Scrapper, or Holosmith. However we see nothing but Mechanist. 

 

That makes you wonder where the true problem lies

Edited June 30, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869