GW2 community observation as a returning player.

[Endaris.1452]

I feel like the main reason is the abysmal accessibility of keys in Dragonfall and I think that is something that Anet should address so that commanders can be more chill.

If you consider only the "Defeat Kralkatorrik" and the post-meta champ train, you have 10 events that spawn a total of 36 coffers but only reward 12 keys.

The pre-events to that meta reward a total of 11 keys assuming you manage to tag all of them.

Meaning you're still 13 keys short you need to acquire during the camp phase.

If https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistborn_Key is to be believed you only get 1 key from events with the exception of the initial escorts (that also spawn the same amount of coffers as they give keys though) which means that you have to tag at least 13 events only to be able to loot all the coffers in the meta which to me feels reasonably difficult if you don't join the map early on.

 

Personally I'm essentially avoiding that map and its meta solely because I never have enough keys to loot all the coffers anyway. It would be a lot better if the map had a key-to-coffer balance as we know from Auric Basin (feels like one of the most balanced ones) or Verdant Brink or generally adding an option to purchase keys on a daily basis like done for many other maps: Bandit Skeleton Keys, Zephyrite Lockpicks, Pact Crowbars, Exalted Keys, Vials of Chak Acid, Machetes, Trader's Keys, Cache Keys. As a matter of fact, Mistborn Keys seem to be the single key currency that is not up for purchase for map currency and adding a purchase option for one Mistborn Mote with a daily cap would probably do a lot to solve these problems

[Synwhisper.8045]

17 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

So, you have to come to the realization that a "commander" is just someone that owns a tag. Putting a tag on does not confer some kind of special power. So not everyone that tags up will be a decent player or person.

Heck, one could tag themselves and be like "Why don't you follow me?", but such a squabble would be pointless.

In any case respect needs to be earned. The act of merely making a squad does not command respect, nor any obligation for you to do, well anything.

I mean, I really did wish that you could change instances easily, but you can't actually do that without inconvenience, so , no. I am not leaving the map.

I would really love a change instance option. That would be great. 

[Voyant.1327]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:15 AM, Synwhisper.8045 said:

Hey everyone, 

I don't know if this is the right spot in the forums for this as I've never used the forums before. But I'd like to share a gripe/observation i'm having as a returning player who has been away for a couple of years.

I don't know what is going on with commanders atm in GW2 but 50 percent seem to be wonderful and 50 percent seem to be for lack of a more adequate way to describe them, kittenholes. 

Iv'e been back a couple of weeks and I have never had problems with commanders before, been playing off and on since vanilla. But just in the last two days I've had one commander cuss me out because I wasn't following his tag in dragons end. (I was there doing skyscale collection stuff.)  and just then when I was doing my daily  I had a commander be really rude when I asked if the content they were doing was a bounty.  Like it was a really simple question and all I got was attitude in response until someone else following the commander told me yes in fact the content they were doing was a bounty.

Iv'e been spending a lot of time in dragonsfall and I have seen multiple commanders randomly abusing people who aren't following them or who are doing their own thing.

Is there some new rule that if you are in a high density area you MUST follow a commander?

I saw it like three times yesterday from three different commanders. No hyperbole.

Actually had a couple of really wonderful ones doing events in central tyria earlier today so this is not a blanket statement about all commanders, however I don't remember this ever being something that happened before. I always really loved gw2 because the community was so supportive and friendly but since I've been back it has been such a culture shock. What the hell happened in my absence?

Is this super common now? Or have I just had a bad couple of days?

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on the subject. 

EDIT: I'm talking about dragonsFALL. I said dragonsend previously.  So many dragon places. Or just two. 

Seems like a result of the larger problem thats been said a few times in a few different ways. But again its why this the MMO where the PvP community has a better rep then the PvE community:

"A large portion of PvE gw2 players feel its their right to tell you how to play."

You'll hear a lot of deflections and justifications of it. But majority of the toxic aspect falls into that simple line. I just advise block those types until they learn basic civility & let people have fun in a game. Plenty of us out here just tearing thru content having a great time! 

[Labjax.2465]

32 minutes ago, Voyant.1327 said:

Seems like a result of the larger problem thats been said a few times in a few different ways. But again its why this the MMO where the PvP community has a better rep then the PvE community:

"A large portion of PvE gw2 players feel its their right to tell you how to play."

You'll hear a lot of deflections and justifications of it. But majority of the toxic aspect falls into that simple line. I just advise block those types until they learn basic civility & let people have fun in a game. Plenty of us out here just tearing thru content having a great time! 

Yeah, I read these justifications on a regular basis about instanced PvE content, for example, in this game... people saying stuff like "if you don't like X group's standard, make your own, stop trying to join our group if you don't meet the qualifications, etc." And I try to see where they're coming from and I think I get it to a point, but they are basically operating in a country club kind of way... but worse. They want their special club to only contain the members they view as worthy and no one else, without even segregating themselves. So like, they could just make an exclusive guild and organize stuff within guild chat if they wanted that and no one would even notice, but they often insist on doing it through public group listings. They want the convenience of grouping only with the type of people they consider worthy, without any of the work of organizing a community that can make that happen. So when they say stuff like "make your own group," it's like they're telling other people to do what they don't want to do themselves. They want their ideal group to fall into their lap and get annoyed when they get something less than that. They don't want to support other players to become better so their pool of skilled players becomes larger. They just want it to be there for them when they want it.

I am generalizing heavily, I know. Not all of this applies to all of them... it's kind of a "if the shoe fits" thing. But there is a certain picture I see with repeating themes in how people talk about content and their frustrations with players who don't meet their standards. And to top it off, some of these type of people try to do a reverse uno card and say it's the lower skill players who are entitled and want them to carry them. But this kind of attitude is one of actively ignoring how the help of others contributed to where you are today. I think it's safe to say most of these players who qualify for this country club play had help getting there at some point, even if it was as indirect as reading things from community-compiled wiki information. It's this strange attitude of feeling that giving back is some kind of charity you do for the little people when you feel magnanimous, rather than something you owe a community. That said, in my observations, plenty of the people in this community do get that heavily and they do give back readily, and I try to do it myself.

But the high skill culture surrounding this game has a public-facing atmosphere of feet-dragging about dealing with people who aren't up to speed.

The way the open world culture mostly is, I've been able to pick up things just by showing up and then using that knowledge to help others. With instanced PvE content, it feels like I either have to stumble my way through it fumbling to lead others ("make your own group") or find someone's formal schedule to adhere to for "training." So much knowledge that could be passed down organically is getting withheld because of people who don't want to be inconvenienced taking on a simple informing role for even one person. Who can possibly feel welcomed or informed opening up a LFG and seeing strict role requirements they don't understand and encountering attitudes that don't have patience for them. And now Anet seems to be supporting this even more with the way listings have been separated into Experienced and Training.

I know if any of those type of people read this, I will be getting justifications and ire up the wazoo, but idk what to say at this point that can be more diplomatic. It's not selfish or self-centered to want help without having to turn a game into scheduled lessons. And the more this issue is ignored and natural turnover occurs, the less people living up to their expectations exist in the game and the more irritated they get at finding people who don't fit, and it's just an awful feedback loop. I don't see a strong future for instanced PvE content ever being possible in GW2 unless this is addressed and I think the most straightforward step to cut through the problem is an automated LFG tool so people can find each other more easily in exchange for maybe being a little less picky. If you don't get to be as picky, but also don't have to organize anything, I think it makes it easy to handle a little subpar representation. It is by no means without its issues (pugging never is) but it works in other games to get people playing content. And if the picky people still want to organize outside it, they still could and they can have their own little thing without their culture dominating the perception of group finding.

This is a lot of words, I know, but this has been bothering me for some time in the back of my mind and I think it became a little more clear for me just now.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Yeah, I read these justifications on a regular basis about instanced PvE content, for example, in this game... people saying stuff like "if you don't like X group's standard, make your own, stop trying to join our group if you don't meet the qualifications, etc." And I try to see where they're coming from and I think I get it to a point, but they are basically operating in a country club kind of way... but worse.

You're missing how the players wanting to join any group and tell others how they're supposed to organize and play are actively trying to impose their rules on others. It's interesting how you can see that apply in one direction and think that "joining according to the squad description" is somehow a worse concept than "join any group no matter what and do/don't do whatever you want without any care about the rest of the people in the group you've just joined". And all of that because what exactly? That "advertise your group" button is not visible enough?

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

So when they say stuff like "make your own group," it's like they're telling other people to do what they don't want to do themselves. They want their ideal group to fall into their lap and get annoyed when they get something less than that. They don't want to support other players to become better so their pool of skilled players becomes larger. They just want it to be there for them when they want it.

I don't think you could get it any more backwards. People that already made their group and wrote in its description what they're expecting from people joining in (because that's what you're complaining about) are somehow... "waiting for ideal group to fall into their lap"? They don't, they literally are trying to organize groups by themselves. On the other hand, if you want "everyone welcome" group and there's none available... just make one yourself. How is this exactly a problem? You're not entitled to having other players organize their groups by your wish just so you can avoid the effort of creating one.

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

or find someone's formal schedule to adhere to for "training."

No strict schedules needed to participate in random training groups btw. You're free to "feel this way", but it's not factual. For all the times I've played in training squads -on both sides of participating in them- literally 0 of them were somehow "scheduled" beforehand.

_________________________________________________________

 

OP, some players in OW try to follow the specific way of playing through those "farmable" events to increase profit -not only their own, but also everyone else following the group. I don't see anything wrong with people in those groups informing others what (follow the group, tag events etc) and why (for example mutually beneficial increase of profit while farming the event chains) they could do. You're not obligated to follow them though and that's where it should -and more often than not does- end.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[eXruina.4956]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:15 PM, Synwhisper.8045 said:

Hey everyone, 

I don't know if this is the right spot in the forums for this as I've never used the forums before. But I'd like to share a gripe/observation i'm having as a returning player who has been away for a couple of years.

I don't know what is going on with commanders atm in GW2 but 50 percent seem to be wonderful and 50 percent seem to be for lack of a more adequate way to describe them, kittenholes. 

Iv'e been back a couple of weeks and I have never had problems with commanders before, been playing off and on since vanilla. But just in the last two days I've had one commander cuss me out because I wasn't following his tag in dragons end. (I was there doing skyscale collection stuff.)  and just then when I was doing my daily  I had a commander be really rude when I asked if the content they were doing was a bounty.  Like it was a really simple question and all I got was attitude in response until someone else following the commander told me yes in fact the content they were doing was a bounty.

Iv'e been spending a lot of time in dragonsfall and I have seen multiple commanders randomly abusing people who aren't following them or who are doing their own thing.

Is there some new rule that if you are in a high density area you MUST follow a commander?

I saw it like three times yesterday from three different commanders. No hyperbole.

Actually had a couple of really wonderful ones doing events in central tyria earlier today so this is not a blanket statement about all commanders, however I don't remember this ever being something that happened before. I always really loved gw2 because the community was so supportive and friendly but since I've been back it has been such a culture shock. What the hell happened in my absence?

Is this super common now? Or have I just had a bad couple of days?

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on the subject. 

EDIT: I'm talking about dragonsFALL. I said dragonsend previously.  So many dragon places. Or just two. 

game isn't what you remember, people have come and gone, community has changed, values and priorities have changed.

 

nowadays you can liken gw2 community to just any other mmorpg community out there, mostly toxic, self serving, fend for yourself. gw2 players of old were special.

 

guild wars 2 used to have the friendliest, most selfless, most helpful community.

 

i swear when i started this game, people were offering to help me left and right. guiding me, introducing me to the wheres and the whats.

 

even going as far as to die ressing me for no apparent reason dropping whatever it is they were doing. even if it meant us both dying.

 

i remembered strangers carrying me practically naked through dungeons and fractals to get me my first set of gear. without any fuss. which i ultimately rode to get everything else.

 

and this wasn't just 1 or 2 individuals or groups, this was multiple, majority of the player base.

 

nowadays, i try to pay it forward from time to time to honor them.

 

i will never forget, that to me right there was the golden age.

Edited July 7, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Madam Pussycat.6153]

People are definitely more toxic in this game than they used to be. Bullying and hate speech runs rampant in pvp and it doesn't seem like anything ever gets done about it, I guess these type of people do the same things in pve these days.

[Ashantara.8731]

41 minutes ago, Ellie.5913 said:

People are definitely more toxic in this game than they used to be. Bullying and hate speech runs rampant in pvp and it doesn't seem like anything ever gets done about it, I guess these type of people do the same things in pve these days.

While I agree that toxicity and a sheer lack of empathy (e.g., I encountered someone making fun of another player's parent's death a couple of weeks ago... just wow) have reached an unacceptable level lately (those people obviously coming from other games where this is considered "normal" behavior), the Dragon's End meta is an exception.

It is the most demanding map meta content to date regarding personal player skill, therefore Commanders are usually trying to get on emptier maps so they will have as little "dead weight" as possible.

That's no excuse for sh*tty behavior, mind you.

[Madam Pussycat.6153]

49 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

While I agree that toxicity and a sheer lack of empathy (e.g., I encountered someone making fun of another player's parent's death a couple of weeks ago... just wow) have reached an unacceptable level lately (those people obviously coming from other games where this is considered "normal" behavior), the Dragon's End meta is an exception.

It is the most demanding map meta content to date regarding personal player skill, therefore Commanders are usually trying to get on emptier maps so they will have as little "dead weight" as possible.

That's no excuse for sh*tty behavior, mind you.

Well  I hope the level of toxicity and bullying that's in pvp never reaches pve, that type of stuff makes people not want to play a game. I've even heard people say they don't play pvp for this reason alone.

[Ashantara.8731]

16 minutes ago, Ellie.5913 said:

I've even heard people say they don't play pvp for this reason alone.

Yep, I quit PvP years ago because of this and the imbalance in team composition (no wonder the imbalance is getting worse when fewer players are playing PvP).

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

to many toxic casuals

[Cuks.8241]

Dragonfall keyfarm + meta + champ train commanders can be touchy. They want to maximise the event tagging for the whole squad to get the maximum number of keys from pre-events and that actually requires cooperation of all the people in the squad. Which means following the events in specific order (not doing events without full squad), low dmg 1 tap tagging of the events so everyone can tag before mobs die.

Now how I see it. If you are part of the squad and not following the rules of the squad the comm has all the rights to tell you how to play or otherwise kick you out.  But if you are outside of the squad you can do anything you want. Now out of the courtesy to 50 people in the squad I dont solo events on such maps unless its really something specific I want to do there (which I never need anyway).

[MiTaReX.4620]

It happens in Dragonfall. The idea is by not following the commander, you lower the GPM and other metrics of their entire squad while also lowering yours by not following them. Also, they have a sort of tempo, a rotation of events they tag to maximize the reward per unit of time, so doing events without the squad disrupts that flow.

So most comms I've seen there kindly ask in the map chat to not complete events without the blob an just join the train if the player is trying to farm. But people don't like being told what to do, so I've seen escalations and arguing in the map chat lasting for half an hour. Most comms just stop asking if it doesn't work, but sometimes they get very annoyed and start arguing, especially if the player in question is behaving aggressively in the chat.

This doesn't usually happen in most newbie/non-endgame maps because there is nothing to optimize or the map design doesn't punish players for not following the comm.

[valeran.3029]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:15 AM, Synwhisper.8045 said:

Hey everyone, 

I don't know if this is the right spot in the forums for this as I've never used the forums before. But I'd like to share a gripe/observation i'm having as a returning player who has been away for a couple of years.

I don't know what is going on with commanders atm in GW2 but 50 percent seem to be wonderful and 50 percent seem to be for lack of a more adequate way to describe them, kittenholes. 

Iv'e been back a couple of weeks and I have never had problems with commanders before, been playing off and on since vanilla. But just in the last two days I've had one commander cuss me out because I wasn't following his tag in dragons end. (I was there doing skyscale collection stuff.)  and just then when I was doing my daily  I had a commander be really rude when I asked if the content they were doing was a bounty.  Like it was a really simple question and all I got was attitude in response until someone else following the commander told me yes in fact the content they were doing was a bounty.

Iv'e been spending a lot of time in dragonsfall and I have seen multiple commanders randomly abusing people who aren't following them or who are doing their own thing.

Is there some new rule that if you are in a high density area you MUST follow a commander?

I saw it like three times yesterday from three different commanders. No hyperbole.

Actually had a couple of really wonderful ones doing events in central tyria earlier today so this is not a blanket statement about all commanders, however I don't remember this ever being something that happened before. I always really loved gw2 because the community was so supportive and friendly but since I've been back it has been such a culture shock. What the hell happened in my absence?

Is this super common now? Or have I just had a bad couple of days?

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on the subject. 

EDIT: I'm talking about dragonsFALL. I said dragonsend previously.  So many dragon places. Or just two. 

 

As a new player, what have I seen about the community?

 

It's great.

 

MOST are willing to help. Map chat isn't flooded with kitten. 

 

This is, frankly, one of the BEST communities I've seen in an MMO.

 

It's ONE of the reasons I am not giving up on the game as the devs seem intent on murdering their own game.

[valeran.3029]

On 7/5/2022 at 2:46 PM, Endaris.1452 said:

I feel like the main reason is the abysmal accessibility of keys in Dragonfall and I think that is something that Anet should address so that commanders can be more chill.

If you consider only the "Defeat Kralkatorrik" and the post-meta champ train, you have 10 events that spawn a total of 36 coffers but only reward 12 keys.

The pre-events to that meta reward a total of 11 keys assuming you manage to tag all of them.

Meaning you're still 13 keys short you need to acquire during the camp phase.

If https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistborn_Key is to be believed you only get 1 key from events with the exception of the initial escorts (that also spawn the same amount of coffers as they give keys though) which means that you have to tag at least 13 events only to be able to loot all the coffers in the meta which to me feels reasonably difficult if you don't join the map early on.

 

Personally I'm essentially avoiding that map and its meta solely because I never have enough keys to loot all the coffers anyway. It would be a lot better if the map had a key-to-coffer balance as we know from Auric Basin (feels like one of the most balanced ones) or Verdant Brink or generally adding an option to purchase keys on a daily basis like done for many other maps: Bandit Skeleton Keys, Zephyrite Lockpicks, Pact Crowbars, Exalted Keys, Vials of Chak Acid, Machetes, Trader's Keys, Cache Keys. As a matter of fact, Mistborn Keys seem to be the single key currency that is not up for purchase for map currency and adding a purchase option for one Mistborn Mote with a daily cap would probably do a lot to solve these problems

 

Let me amend this...

 

IN GAME? GREAT community.

 

IN FORUM? Kitten.