Instanced PVE Bladesworn Rotation Feedback

[Jzaku.9765]

This is not a PVP thread. Please also don't post about how much you hate the thematic of Bladesworn in this thread. 

The most recent balance patch made several impactful changes to Bladesworn - adding "DPS utilities" in Overcharged Cartridges and Dragonspike Mine, effectively nerfing the Discipline traitline (due to the loss of Doubled Standards as a DPS trait), and changing Tactical Reload to speed up Dragon Slash. 

I would like to highlight that these changes have made Bladesworn have one of the most micromanagement heavy and intensive rotations in the game.

 

I believe this is in complete contradiction to the Game Direction design goal to "move towards raising the skill floor", i.e., making builds easier to play while being more effective. 

This is an analysis of what went wrong with this "buff" to Bladesworn:

1. Tactical Reload and Dragonspike Mine have become rotation defining skills.
   
   This is in contrast with a skill like Firebrand's Mantra of Flame, for example, which is literally just press a button off CD regardless of where in your rotation you are for DPS. 
   
   Tactical Reload and Dragonspike Mine define the new rotation. These skills enable dropping Discipline for Tactics DPS modifiers - what is supposed to be the support traitline, and will enable Bladesworn stacking for perma Quickness just like Catalyst was able to. Which I have to assume is unintended since Catalyst just got changed in this same patch for this exact same reason. 
   
   This has a knock-on effect of warping the rotation around these skill's cooldowns - when before with the Discipline rotation pre-patch Bladesworn had a smooth, simple looping rotation of around ~12s. 
    
2. Overcharged Cartridges ironically lasts too long to be used with the old Discipline rotation.
   
   The old rotation used 3 explosion skills every ~12s (Dragon's Roar > Dragon Slash > Cyclone Trigger) meaning that Overload Cartridges still persists when it's time to charge Dragon Slash, but will time out before it's is fully charged. Using it again before the timer runs out triggers the explosion and consumes the ammo - which is terrible as you don't get the damage modifier on your next explosions. This is just another nail in the coffin for the old, simple rotation. 
   
   This is an extension of how Gunsaber abilities are so bad damage/cast-time that using up the charges with Gunsaber skills manages to be a crippling DPS loss compared to just getting out of Gunsaber ASAP.
    
3. The build now has mandatory skills in the entire Utility bar AND Elite slot.
   
   The new rotation straight up does not work without Dragonspike Mine, Tactical Reload, and Flow Stabilizer to feed you Adrenaline. Dropping Overcharged Cartridges is a major DPS loss. The opportunity cost to dropping any one of these for the meagre amount of utility Warrior can provide is massive.
   
   Compare this with Mechanist's meta DPS Signet picks being jammed packed with utility. Or Scourge's meta DPS Signet being a ranged Res. The disparity of opportunity cost for qol and utility between classes was already massive and this patch exacerbated that to the extreme for Warrior. 
    
4. The decision to buff Ranger's Core Weapons - vs the decision to buff only Bladesworn via Utility skills.
   
   Both these classes were identified to suffer from the same issue - their power builds were struggling after the balance patch. Ranger core weapons were buffed - and now all Ranger builds are thriving with new life breathed into them. Warrior suffered from the exact same issue - except only Bladesworn was buffed leaving Core, Berserker, and Spellbreaker to languish in despair.
   
   Considering that for PVE every Warrior elite spec is essentially "DPS", this is devastating to many Warrior players who enjoyed other aspects of the class. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Jzaku.9765

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

 I think it is pretty clear that Dragon Slash is what they are proud of and think pumping it is the answer. They could have tweaked the damage algorithm instead of introducing more clunkiness into an already clunky spec...

It was pretty clear from all of our feedback from beta and post release that Gunsaber itself needs more damage and defense on it, but that has been ignored. We were pretty clear that TR caused degenerate gameplay during beta and post release, but they've doubled down on it. But whoever made Dragon Slash must really like it and is pushing it hard on warrior players.

[anbujackson.9564]

Well we can start by saying that the benchmark number is technically lower (check the dps right before the last dragonslash at 1 %). Also the old rotation still exists,  weak like berserker.

About the mentioned facts.. well personally I can only agree. 

It doesnt really matter how much dps a build can do. The stuff around the dps is important. How flexible are you? Right now you got this niche possibility to cover a lot of might or abuse quickness in stacking. But if Anet isnt adressing this build, then its just a huge slap to elementalists. While its nice not to rely on discipline for once, the abuse of high modifiers for strong bursts and access to quickness with no cost is not.

The thing is, what are they going to do to change this? Their intention is obviously to focus all the damage on dragonslash. But there are too many modifiers to increase the damage of said move. I dont like this personally. And about quickness.. they need to rethink this from the ground up. I am all ears for bladesworn nerfs though since its performance is probably now a gatekeep that prevents buffs to core weapons and traits/utilities. 

Also about your lack of utility choice.. well like you said, warrior utilities are pretty awful because you got nothing that is really useful besides generic boons. Its not like you drop rage skills as berserker either because no berserk mode = you are worse than a core warrior.

 

At least I can drop the thief rune again for eagle on tuesday without changing half my gear. Big buffs!...Which buff bladesworn also.

Edited July 17, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[JTGuevara.9018]

23 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

 I think it is pretty clear that Dragon Slash is what they are proud of and think pumping it is the answer. They could have tweaked the damage algorithm instead of introducing more clunkiness into an already clunky spec...

It was pretty clear from all of our feedback from beta and post release that Gunsaber itself needs more damage and defense on it, but that has been ignored. We were pretty clear that TR caused degenerate gameplay during beta and post release, but they've doubled down on it. But whoever made Dragon Slash must really like it and is pushing it hard on warrior players.

They can KEEP pushing. STILL not buying this expansion lmao! They'll get tired eventually.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

They went all in on the Burst for this spec, when they could have went all in on 'weapon' swapping and had Armaments been advanced weapon kits with Gunsaber being the elite. Each Armament could have been flush with utility, damage, support, and each could have had their own 'burst.' But this is what we have, yet another even clunkier DPS espec.

[eXruina.4956]

the problem with bladesworn in pve isn't really its damage to begin with, even pre-buff to tactical reload and dragonspike mine changes, the problem is consistency.

 

how well a bladesworn performs will largely depend on the kind of encounter, and your support, in harder encounters bladesworn is just fluff, very risky and inconsistent output compared to the competition.

 

sure bladesworn can easily race in static fights where you're fighting a stationary golem with a few mechanics thrown in here and there.

 

but for the more difficult content, dynamic fights, loads of mechanics, bladesworn will be fluff.

 

you can argue that with a dedicated support you could make it work and actually compete, but you're just taking away from the party, vs picking a lower maintainance, more competitive and more self sufficient dps class.

 

at the end of the day, at least as of now, bladesworn is fun and flashy but realistically impractical compared to other choices.

[eXruina.4956]

for most people, bladesworn is an uncomfortable stray from  a traditional warrior.

 

people who play warrior, ultimately choose it for its straightforward and simple gameplay.

 

bladesworn requires you to find your spots. it takes away much flexibility. specially gw2's fast paced combat environment.

 

drawbacks such as charging dragon trigger, will forever shackle bladesworn. in more difficult gameplay scenarios. making it always suboptimal.

 

there is no reason to choose it over something else that deals as much damage and has no drawbacks.

 

i honestly don't know why they keep pushing drawbacks onto warrior by design, like -300 armor in berserk mode, and remaining stationary in dragon trigger. its just poor design.

 

they could remove -300 armor penalty for berskerk mode easily, or allow you to charge while moving in dragon trigger.

 

why don't we see this -300 armor and lock into place 💩 in every other class, that'd be a good balancing decision right there. 🤣 

Edited July 18, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[JTGuevara.9018]

8 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

for most people, bladestorm is an uncomfortable stray from  a traditional warrior.

 

people who play warrior, ultimately choose it for its straightforward and simple gameplay.

 

bladesworn requires you to find your spots. it takes away much flexibility. specially gw2's fast paced combat environment.

 

drawbacks such as charging dragon trigger, will forever shackle bladesworn. in more difficult gameplay scenarios. making it always suboptimal.

 

there is no reason to choose it over something else that deals as much damage and has no drawbacks.

 

i honestly don't know why they keep pushing drawbacks onto warrior by design, like -300 armor in berserk mode, and remaining stationary in dragon trigger. its just poor design.

 

they could remove -300 armor penalty for berskerk mode easily, or allow you to charge while moving in dragon trigger.

 

why don't we see this -300 armor and lock into place 💩 in every other class, that'd be a good balancing decision right there. 🤣 

Yup! This is the thing. It is VERY impractical and inflexible. Bladesworn is just a set of shackles on this class. One shackle is Dragon Trigger. In an action RPG game with lots of free movement, a skill bundle with all stationary, self-rooted skills is a disaster! You're a sitting duck! You can kludge it in pve, but in pvp forget about it. The other shackle is the gun saber. I'm sorry, but the gun saber no matter how good or bad it is, should not lock a fundamental warrior mechanic! (weapon-swapping). Weapon-swapping is part of the warrior identity(master of arms). The third shackle is the specialization line. Most of it revolves around ammo skills. So, even before you pick bladesworn, you're already sacrificing non-shout utility skills right out the door. The fourth shackle is flow. Normally, by itself it wouldn't even be an issue, but an energy cost just to get access to stationary, self-rooted skills?...nah screw that.

 

Berzerker(pre-rework) and spellbreaker never felt so restrictive and clunky as bladesworn.  I only tried it at the beta and that was all I really needed. I was not all that impressed. Of course, I was more civil then. I thought, "Meh..interesting, but clunky..they got time to sort it out...". (Boy how that aged lmao...)

No...make no mistake...bladesworn is propped up by a couple of traits and mere numbers. It is the numbers that cloud peoples' perspective of this spec. Without the high DPS and healing numbers bladesworn pulls up, bladesworn is NOTHING.

 

And no sorry, I'm going to post a thematic comment. I've earned it. Bladesworn is an off-brand discount samurai cosplayer without the actual skill. Nothing will change my mind.

[Mungrul.9358]

15 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

why don't we see this -300 armor and lock into place 💩 in every other class, that'd be a good balancing decision right there. 🤣 

Like I've said before, the answer isn't to buff Warrior but to nerf every other profession down to its level 😈

[eXruina.4956]

i don't know how many of you remember this, but warrior used to have a trait called Hatred: Increase Damage by 25% when Health is Below 50%.

 

i remember their reasoning in removing this trait was that it prompted gameplay from a point of weakness, and that such things are generally bad by design.

 

i remember there being some very sensible and productive changes back when this pushed through, i think it was together with the trait system overhaul.

[Obtena.7952]

BsW was never going to be a 'low skill floor' DPS spec anyways so the last patch changes adding to the rotation aren't really concerning for how they impact low skilled players to use it; it's not meant for them. Therefore, I don't see that as a contradiction to the design philosophy. If anything, it's not the DPS that attracts low skilled players to BsW in the first place. It's the sustain, which remains unaffected last patch. Besides, warrior already has Berserker for what 'low skill floor' players require as a DPS build.  

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Jzaku.9765]

23 hours ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Well we can start by saying that the benchmark number is technically lower (check the dps right before the last dragonslash at 1 %). Also the old rotation still exists,  weak like berserker.

About the mentioned facts.. well personally I can only agree. 

It doesnt really matter how much dps a build can do. The stuff around the dps is important. How flexible are you? Right now you got this niche possibility to cover a lot of might or abuse quickness in stacking. But if Anet isnt adressing this build, then its just a huge slap to elementalists. While its nice not to rely on discipline for once, the abuse of high modifiers for strong bursts and access to quickness with no cost is not.

The thing is, what are they going to do to change this? Their intention is obviously to focus all the damage on dragonslash. But there are too many modifiers to increase the damage of said move. I dont like this personally. And about quickness.. they need to rethink this from the ground up. I am all ears for bladesworn nerfs though since its performance is probably now a gatekeep that prevents buffs to core weapons and traits/utilities. 

Also about your lack of utility choice.. well like you said, warrior utilities are pretty awful because you got nothing that is really useful besides generic boons. Its not like you drop rage skills as berserker either because no berserk mode = you are worse than a core warrior.

 

At least I can drop the thief rune again for eagle on tuesday without changing half my gear. Big buffs!...Which buff bladesworn also.

It was never my intention to reference the absolute DPS/strength of the new rotation - because it has nothing to do with the point of my post other than as a reference to compare with older rotations/builds. I'm also struggling as to how they can possibly address this gap between Bsw(new) and Bsw(old)/pZerk other than basically reverting the functional changes they made last patch, which is obviously a really bad look. 

22 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

the problem with bladesworn in pve isn't really its damage to begin with, even pre-buff to tactical reload and dragonspike mine changes, the problem is consistency.

 

how well a bladesworn performs will largely depend on the kind of encounter, and your support, in harder encounters bladesworn is just fluff, very risky and inconsistent output compared to the competition.

 

sure bladesworn can easily race in static fights where you're fighting a stationary golem with a few mechanics thrown in here and there.

 

but for the more difficult content, dynamic fights, loads of mechanics, bladesworn will be fluff.

 

you can argue that with a dedicated support you could make it work and actually compete, but you're just taking away from the party, vs picking a lower maintainance, more competitive and more self sufficient dps class.

 

at the end of the day, at least as of now, bladesworn is fun and flashy but realistically impractical compared to other choices.

Bsw pre-patch was a very slow paced rotation that gave you lots of time to think about how to position yourself, and could easily be very consistent in basically all Raid and Strike content - other than some of the newer Strike CMs that just have a lot of melee hate which has nothing to do with Bsw specifically. 

The issue I am highlighting in this post is that post-patch the APM of the new rotation these changes have created shot up significantly - it added a time limit during which you have to execute 2x Dragon Slashes, and it's constantly displacing you putting you out of position. These changes, in short, have made the spec significantly more difficult to play. The old rotation did not have these issues.

 

22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

BsW was never going to be a 'low skill floor' DPS spec anyways so the changes aren't really concerning for how they impact low skilled players to use it. If anything, it's not the DPS that attracts low skilled players to BsW in the first place. It's the sustain, which remains unaffected last patch.

Besides, warrior already has Berserker for what 'low skill floor' players require as a DPS build.  

If the Title of the thread and the literal first sentence did not manage to inform you - this is specifically about endgame, instanced PVE. Self sustain is nigh irrelevant in endgame instanced content, and pre-patch Bsw was so easy to do well on it could perform well with a literal 2 button rotation. I would request that you attempt to stay on-topic, and please do not conflate other people's complaints about the spec with the very specific intention of this thread. 

[Obtena.7952]

38 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

If the Title of the thread and the literal first sentence did not manage to inform you - this is specifically about endgame, instanced PVE. Self sustain is nigh irrelevant in endgame instanced content, and pre-patch Bsw was so easy to do well on it could perform well with a literal 2 button rotation. I would request that you attempt to stay on-topic, and please do not conflate other people's complaints about the spec with the very specific intention of this thread. 

Yup, I was informed by your post. My point here is that you can't assume that the design philosophy applies to all aspects of every espec. Specifically here, I don't see a problem with how Anet complicated the DPS rotation of BsW as the design philosophy of lowering the skill floor in this case doesn't apply. We are talking about optimal DPS output in instanced content. The people that this change affects aren't interested in where the skill floor is. 

The point I was making about the sustain is that THIS is where the low skill floor for BsW is focused because low skilled players aren't benefiting from the big DPS that BsW gives. They benefit from the sustain aspects and in this regard, the low skill floor remains undisturbed by the patch changes. 

In otherwords, the premise that Anet are contradicting their low skill floor philosophy with the latest patch changes affecting BsW maximum DPS output in team instance content doesn't really make sense. 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Jzaku.9765]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup, I was informed by your post. My point here is that you can't assume that the design philosophy applies to all aspects of every espec. Specifically here, I don't see a problem with how Anet complicated the rotation of BsW as the design philosophy of lowering the skill floor in this case doesn't apply. WE are talking about optimal DPS output in instanced content. The people that this applies to aren't interested in where the skill floor is. 

Considering that you have just as little idea as to what anet's "design philosophy applies to" as anyone else, I am regrettably forced to dismiss this as pedantry and completely ignore your future posts regarding this topic. 

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Considering that you have just as little idea as to what anet's "design philosophy applies to" as anyone else, 

Well, that's not true actually ... it should be very obvious the skill floor applies to enabling low skilled players. That ISN'T people who are trying to max out DPS rotations in team instances. That IS people who are interested in getting sustain in hard solo or instanced team content (which BsW does exceedingly well)

I mean, why would high skilled players care about where the low skill floor is? Somehow the level of that floor affects their performance? I don't see it. 

Yes, the changes affect the rotation; many DPS changes do that. Yes, those changes have consequences. The weird part of this thread is that it assumes high skilled players would ACTUALLY complain that there are problems with these consequences if the result was more DPS for them, especially if they already choose to use BsW in team instance content in the first place.

Really, I think while some of your points are valid, they do reinforce the fact that BsW is the DPS choice that rewards they highest skilled players with the highest DPS returns. How is that not a reasonable approach to class design? That should be a foundation of class design IMO. If the changes bother you, don't use them. Your DPS will still be very high if you don't.

Again, the concern here; let's make sure actual problems are identified and properly ID who they affect. Certainly, the armaments changes in this patch are not a negative impact on Anet's design philosophy for  players with skills at the floor level. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[anbujackson.9564]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup, I was informed by your post. My point here is that you can't assume that the design philosophy applies to all aspects of every espec. Specifically here, I don't see a problem with how Anet complicated the DPS rotation of BsW as the design philosophy of lowering the skill floor in this case doesn't apply. We are talking about optimal DPS output in instanced content. The people that this change affects aren't interested in where the skill floor is. 

 

Eh, if its fine that high skill is required and gets rewarded with high dps, then why was catalyst nerfed again?

Something along the lines "a hard rotation and an ideal situation dont justify very high dps"? 

So why should that be a thing on warrior, that already struggles with basic support and finding a meaning in the game?

Also this is basically catalyst 2.0 with quickness on burst for no cost. Just with worse dps numbers.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:08 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They went all in on the Burst for this spec, when they could have went all in on 'weapon' swapping and had Armaments been advanced weapon kits with Gunsaber being the elite. Each Armament could have been flush with utility, damage, support, and each could have had their own 'burst.' But this is what we have, yet another even clunkier DPS espec.

I think what would have benefited the "flow" of Bladesworn more is having a single weapon set and changing it so that the weapon swap itself swapped into the Gunsaber (who knows maybe there is just some coding complication to this that made it impractical). As it currently stands that is just how the class is played. Lack of weapon swapping in combat on Warrior just in general feels terrible, despite the presence of the Gunsaber kit. The clunkiness is one of the biggest issues and they should address it. One thing in particular for me is I dislike that the teleports that Gunsaber does have are so short range its basically pointless to have them be teleports. At that point...make them a roll with an evade, would probably feel better to use just overall in terms of the "flow" of the class.

On 7/17/2022 at 1:34 PM, eXruina.4956 said:

the problem with bladesworn in pve isn't really its damage to begin with, even pre-buff to tactical reload and dragonspike mine changes, the problem is consistency.

 

how well a bladesworn performs will largely depend on the kind of encounter, and your support, in harder encounters bladesworn is just fluff, very risky and inconsistent output compared to the competition.

 

sure bladesworn can easily race in static fights where you're fighting a stationary golem with a few mechanics thrown in here and there.

 

but for the more difficult content, dynamic fights, loads of mechanics, bladesworn will be fluff.

 

you can argue that with a dedicated support you could make it work and actually compete, but you're just taking away from the party, vs picking a lower maintainance, more competitive and more self sufficient dps class.

 

at the end of the day, at least as of now, bladesworn is fun and flashy but realistically impractical compared to other choices.

 

On 7/17/2022 at 2:00 PM, eXruina.4956 said:

for most people, bladesworn is an uncomfortable stray from  a traditional warrior.

 

people who play warrior, ultimately choose it for its straightforward and simple gameplay.

 

bladesworn requires you to find your spots. it takes away much flexibility. specially gw2's fast paced combat environment.

 

drawbacks such as charging dragon trigger, will forever shackle bladesworn. in more difficult gameplay scenarios. making it always suboptimal.

 

there is no reason to choose it over something else that deals as much damage and has no drawbacks.

 

i honestly don't know why they keep pushing drawbacks onto warrior by design, like -300 armor in berserk mode, and remaining stationary in dragon trigger. its just poor design.

 

they could remove -300 armor penalty for berskerk mode easily, or allow you to charge while moving in dragon trigger.

 

why don't we see this -300 armor and lock into place 💩 in every other class, that'd be a good balancing decision right there. 🤣 

Considering that even those in Snowcrows who do the benchmarks have said that the new rotation is not really that feasible to maintain on certain fights does confirm that the drawbacks here on Bladesworn need adjustment, especially when other classes (cough Mechanist cough) are likely to more easily achieve these numbers on every single fight, no matter what. I don't mind higher skill floors, but clunkiness and being annoying isn't a raised skill floor...its just clunky and annoying. Bladesworn is just Rush embodied and I'm saying that as someone who uses the action camera to juke people with Rush in PvP...its a janky experience to say the least.

9 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Like I've said before, the answer isn't to buff Warrior but to nerf every other profession down to its level 😈

At this point I don't think that level of nerfing is going to happen, especially because they seemingly just put a full stop to the progressive rollout of these "drawback mechanics" they were supposedly intending to add to other classes that just so conveniently happened to brutally crush Warrior before they stopped. Now they need to do buffs to Warrior, reworks and the like to bring it more in line with literally everything else because yet again an expansion power crept the game...like I knew it would.

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

BsW was never going to be a 'low skill floor' DPS spec anyways so the last patch changes adding to the rotation aren't really concerning for how they impact low skilled players to use it; it's not meant for them. Therefore, I don't see that as a contradiction to the design philosophy. If anything, it's not the DPS that attracts low skilled players to BsW in the first place. It's the sustain, which remains unaffected last patch. Besides, warrior already has Berserker for what 'low skill floor' players require as a DPS build.  

 

I see your point, and as I said previously in this post I personally have no issue with higher skill floor to play a class; I trend towards playing action combat games for that very reason. The issues with Bladesworn is that ANet added what I'll refer to as an "artificial skill floor" and by that I mean it isn't really the "skill" of the person that is the differentiating variable it is more "This is the build you use. Can't use anything else otherwise it doesn't work in any capacity". The way this rotation feels is cumbersome and clunky to execute just because of how Bladesworn functions in general. Even those who have done the benchmarks for the new rotation have said that the most cumbersome aspect of it is flow management, because it is likely something that needs adjustment on the class. Maybe they will address this...maybe not, but prior to that there needs to be acknowledgement that there are still pain points that need looking at. In other words...iteration. Which ANet does not have the best track record with unfortunately but we'll see how things are going forward.

 

Of course this also doesn't change that Warrior is still in a pretty peculiar state overall. As was expected with a new expansion release, the new elite spec is the golden child they put all their chips on so its obviously going to be generally fine for a good portion of the expansion's lifespan, whereas everything else is just tossed aside...which is yet another poor habit ANet trends towards.

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Eh, if its fine that high skill is required and gets rewarded with high dps, then why was catalyst nerfed again?

Something along the lines "a hard rotation and an ideal situation dont justify very high dps"? 

So why should that be a thing on warrior, that already struggles with basic support and finding a meaning in the game?

Also this is basically catalyst 2.0 with quickness on burst for no cost. Just with worse dps numbers.

Why? Probably because Anet doesn't apply consistent design rules across all classes. That doesn't really change what I said though right? Does anyone actually DISAGREE with the idea that a more complicated rotation is rewarded with a DPS boost? THAT will be a fun conversation ... 

but the interesting thing for me is that these new armament skills actually improve the game for BOTH the low skill floor people and the high skill ceiling people. I mean, let's call a spade a spade here. Is it really that offensive to people that Anet has enabled more DPS with these skills, regardless of what skill level they are? That's just weird ... it's literally a complaint about Anet giving people options and somehow people forgot they have the option to not use these skills. But I guess people will QQ about anything anymore if it supports the BsW hate train.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Jzaku.9765]

4 hours ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Eh, if its fine that high skill is required and gets rewarded with high dps, then why was catalyst nerfed again?

Something along the lines "a hard rotation and an ideal situation dont justify very high dps"? 

So why should that be a thing on warrior, that already struggles with basic support and finding a meaning in the game?

Also this is basically catalyst 2.0 with quickness on burst for no cost. Just with worse dps numbers.

I would advise against participating in a conversation that manages to fundamentally misunderstand skill floor/skill ceiling in a desperate attempt to sound like an intellectual. Even completely ignoring the very real gameplay ramifications of having a significantly more complex rotation than before - which I'm fairly confident some of the detractors of this thread have literally no experience with - the real issue is the gap between the skill floor and the skill ceiling (or in arenanet's words, how an experienced player can do 10x more dps than a casual).

Raising the "skill ceiling" while nerfing discipline affecting the baseline "skill floor" in the very same patch exacerbates the very issue anet is trying to address. Looking at an equation that says X + 1 - 2 and saying "Look, the + 1 is objectively a good thing! You can't disagree with this!" is the very definition of pedantry and should not be engaged with. Again, completely ignoring the very real gameplay ramifications that makes it very debatable if it's a +1 or not. 

[Jzaku.9765]

4 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

I think what would have benefited the "flow" of Bladesworn more is having a single weapon set and changing it so that the weapon swap itself swapped into the Gunsaber (who knows maybe there is just some coding complication to this that made it impractical). As it currently stands that is just how the class is played. Lack of weapon swapping in combat on Warrior just in general feels terrible, despite the presence of the Gunsaber kit. The clunkiness is one of the biggest issues and they should address it. One thing in particular for me is I dislike that the teleports that Gunsaber does have are so short range its basically pointless to have them be teleports. At that point...make them a roll with an evade, would probably feel better to use just overall in terms of the "flow" of the class.

Sheathe/Draw Gunsaber (Bsw F1) is functionally exactly the same as "Weapon Swap" and is usable in literally every situation you would be able to actually weapon swap, triggering and is affected by everything related to weapon swap. Better, actually, because it's affected by Alacrity. So you are probably right that it's a coding thing that made it difficult to tie the Kit to the actual weapon swap button. 

There are actually many benefits to it being a teleport in PVE, but I agree that the range is slightly too short and should be bumped up little. 

[Obtena.7952]

12 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Even completely ignoring the very real gameplay ramifications of having a significantly more complex rotation than before

The fact is that the more complex rotation results in more DPS, which is exactly what one should expect to happen. That's not ignoring the ramification at all. Most of the points you made are simply what one would expect to happen when game changes affect meta DPS builds. It's just unreasonable to think Anet gives a way to increase DPS and it won't affect your rotations/skills/traits IF you decide to use it. 

Again, if you don't like the new skills and their effect on how you play, the solution there is just don't use them. I'm pretty certain that if you are bring BsW to a team and they aren't fussed about that, they also won't care if you aren't top 1% DPS using the new skills either. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952