World Linking 7/29/2022

[Mabi black.1824]

the only good thing is that the other teams can also taste the same soup to remain without links. almost should continue to eat it for 6 months so they do not forget the flavor. I would like NA players to be able to eat it and enjoy it for a few months. so when we talk about it they would be more aware of the subject.

[Karagee.6830]

On 7/30/2022 at 1:52 AM, ConorT.5396 said:

Also followed by the fact you have organised, voice zone-blob on an enemy borderland at 2am in the morning, pretty much killing all night-time content for everyone.

 

https://ibb.co/7SGzZjG

Totally balanced. 

Were you online last night (Sunday) at 2am? Because it appears we are back to normal where blobadon has an organised, zone-blob that dominates and does what they want in every map they want in those time slots. They are about to win the 5th consecutive skirmish while controlling the whole scoring and putting Gandara in last place in each of those skirmishes. Looks like par for the course to me...

[Xenesis.6389]

Kaineng described as a boat anchor to BG, funny, it's the BG bandwagon horde that shot them to very high as a link and then dropped them like a brick once they got made into a host and BG opened. BG, the destroyer of servers, collector of boat anchors. 🤭

[Zok.4956]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:19 PM, Karagee.6830 said:

You do realise that Gandara had next to no representation outside reset and evening weekends and no commanders? Please come and teach is how to blob with no tags, I beg you.

Why are you still complaining? It's Tuesday evening and Gandara won 11 out of the last 15 skirmishes now and leads the matchup with 220 victory points (the other two servers have 180 and 176).

Instead of whining, maybe you should be happy dominating the game so many times this week.

[Karagee.6830]

1 hour ago, Zok.4956 said:

Why are you still complaining? It's Tuesday evening and Gandara won 11 out of the last 15 skirmishes now and leads the matchup with 220 victory points (the other two servers have 180 and 176).

Instead of whining, maybe you should be happy dominating the game so many times this week.

I'm not complaining. Now. I was refuting the whining from other people who, unlike the last 8 months, have been outnumbered for a couple of nights by our usual tag on Friday and Saturday (night) when we have accumulated a 30+ advantage.

In any case, for you weirdos, here is the list of winning servers and their score in victory points right now not counting the ongoing skirmish.

T5 (last tier of EU) Gandara 215 VP

T4 Piken 214

T3 GH 223

T2 FSP 200

T1 FoW 210

Now go cry somewhere else.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Zok.4956]

14 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Now. I was refuting the whining from other people who, unlike the last 8 months, have been outnumbered

Maybe you should have responded to those "other people" instead of me because my post was clearly about something else.

 

[Karagee.6830]

43 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Maybe you should have responded to those "other people" instead of me because my post was clearly about something else.

 

Your little whiny post was about how a server which has been mistreated for YEARS at a level NOBODY else ever experienced (because it wasn't just unlinked, it was also being permanently closed at the same time) is now outblobbing other servers which requires no skill (assuming that's even true, you make it seem as if that's relevant for Gandara only). I tried to explain that Gandara had no tags and was outnumbered 90% of the times when we had no link and your retort was that we had a 30+ point advantage and a score...similar or worse than other servers leading in current matches. If you prefer to live in your own fantasy land, please do, but do not insult anyone's intelligence. Yes, the team fielding more average players on maps will win most matches, nobody is disputing that, that was EXACTLY why Gandara was complaining being without a link+full and outnumbered 90% of the times for 8 months (aside the from other unlinked server not named BB or the lone team that bandwagoners gutted with transfers). This oublobbing Gandara, you are complaining about, has spent 8 months in T5 not able to get out of it because BB will greatly outnumber any unlinked server and the chances of beating BB or a linked server in those conditions are next to 0.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Mabi black.1824]

19 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I'm not complaining. Now. I was refuting the whining from other people who, unlike the last 8 months, have been outnumbered for a couple of nights by our usual tag on Friday and Saturday (night) when we have accumulated a 30+ advantage.

In any case, for you weirdos, here is the list of winning servers and their score in victory points right now not counting the ongoing skirmish.

T5 (last tier of EU) Gandara 215 VP

T4 Piken 214

T3 GH 223

T2 FSP 200

T1 FoW 210

Now go cry somewhere else.

dear karagee,

this list of yours says a little little, indeed it only confirms how difficult this game mode is. you mentioned t3 gh where I am this week. if you look at the numbers and use mathematics you will find that gh ci sumera of number with an average of 40%. they are almost twice as many as us on average. you have been trying the same thing for a long time. so you should be a little more aware , broaden your perspective. not always be in defensive mode.

it would be enough to say '' yes you are right the system has big problems in building similar teams, so it is better for everyone to take turns in staying without a link ''

well, we can also go further and behave like an intelligent community that shares a beautiful passion. a few days ago someone answered me a question telling me that here maybe you can get something if everyone asks for it.

I use someone else's suggestion here, let's lower the population limit of individual teams, and lower player access for every single map, and let's do it consciously. we force groups of players to move (as they already do the week after reconnections) from full servers to migrate to empty ones. you will have to stand in line so long that if you still want to play wvw you have to move. 

to do this you do not have to build new programs or new algorithms, you just have to click and change some number, some parameter. we could ask arenanet to do it right away, give us 6 or 12 months to see what result we get. if a good part of us believes that the most important problem is to have + or - balanced matches ( and never again see an enemy that exceeds you in number by almost double ) we could ask for it in more person and we could ask for it every day, maybe we can get something. for the alliances it will still take a long time, also I hope that before they go live they give us the opportunity to discuss many details of this huge change, many small things that make a big difference on the final result. 

and in any case, having 6 or 12 months with these new parameters could also be useful to arenanet to take into account the numbers even for the new teams of alliances.

[Karagee.6830]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:17 PM, Mabi black.1824 said:

dear karagee,

this list of yours says a little little, indeed it only confirms how difficult this game mode is. you mentioned t3 gh where I am this week. if you look at the numbers and use mathematics you will find that gh ci sumera of number with an average of 40%. they are almost twice as many as us on average. you have been trying the same thing for a long time. so you should be a little more aware , broaden your perspective. not always be in defensive mode.

it would be enough to say '' yes you are right the system has big problems in building similar teams, so it is better for everyone to take turns in staying without a link ''

well, we can also go further and behave like an intelligent community that shares a beautiful passion. a few days ago someone answered me a question telling me that here maybe you can get something if everyone asks for it.

I use someone else's suggestion here, let's lower the population limit of individual teams, and lower player access for every single map, and let's do it consciously. we force groups of players to move (as they already do the week after reconnections) from full servers to migrate to empty ones. you will have to stand in line so long that if you still want to play wvw you have to move. 

to do this you do not have to build new programs or new algorithms, you just have to click and change some number, some parameter. we could ask arenanet to do it right away, give us 6 or 12 months to see what result we get. if a good part of us believes that the most important problem is to have + or - balanced matches ( and never again see an enemy that exceeds you in number by almost double ) we could ask for it in more person and we could ask for it every day, maybe we can get something. for the alliances it will still take a long time, also I hope that before they go live they give us the opportunity to discuss many details of this huge change, many small things that make a big difference on the final result. 

and in any case, having 6 or 12 months with these new parameters could also be useful to arenanet to take into account the numbers even for the new teams of alliances.

Mabi, I was trying to say that every matchup has a similar imbalance except for one, where the stronger team has got a similar amount of victory points.

This is the first week of relink, doing these comparisons make no sense, you know it, I know it, most people know it. We need to wait until teams move up and down.

I just entertained the discussion because the point was made that we were dominating our match, when we had skirmishes even this morning where we were getting 3rd place points and Piken had 95% of the pie.

My view is that if they wanted they could just make transfers waaaay more expensive...or cheaper to encourage flows towards lower populated servers. This would means that after they see 30 people paying 1800 gems to go to server A, the next 30 will have to pay 5000 gems and then you lock the server mid week if the flow continues despite all of that (but I think there must be a level where people will refuse to pay to transfer to their top choice destination).

Of course if you lower map caps it would brute force more balanced matchups and obviously it would be great for any server that is generally outnumbered (not least because you may be able to defend home or eb by pulling everyone to defend in such a scenario), but you will have so many people crying about queues on forums from higher population teams that it would be unsustainable. Peak time and reset would be a nightmare for some teams. So that would need to be accompanied by free transfers to low population servers and, again, some smart dynamic pricing of transfers to balance the population. 

I see 2 problems: A) I don't think Anet is truly able to implement dynamic pricing to the extent needed and react quickly enough (even in a simplified system where the first 10 transfers cost 1800, the next 10 2200, then 2500 up to a point where the server locks automatically); and B) I am very very doubtful that Anet is counting wvw player hours correctly. If you ask me, balance of population factors heavily in their algorithms. And if they can't count population and player hours correctly, no matter what you do, you will never be able to balance things properly.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Mabi black.1824]

7 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

So that would need to be accompanied by free transfers to low population servers and, again, some smart dynamic pricing of transfers to balance the population.

I fully agree with that. any suggestions in the field of obtaining more balanced teams immediately without extra work for arenanet is welcome here.

[Mabi black.1824]

15 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I see 2 problems: A) I don't think Anet is truly able to implement dynamic pricing to the extent needed and react quickly enough (even in a simplified system where the first 10 transfers cost 1800, the next 10 2200, then 2500 up to a point where the server locks automatically); and B) I am very very doubtful that Anet is counting wvw player hours correctly. If you ask me, balance of population factors heavily in their algorithms. 

the problem A I perceive it too, I very often have the feeling that the system counts or verifies the number of players and their limit so slowly that everyone has the opportunity to abuse. problem B in my opinion can be regioned much later.

I mean if I have 27 buckets of water, and some are full and others are almost empty, if you decrease their capacity and if you can not throw water on the ground, you can only transfer from full to empty, as a result you will have 27 buckets with a water level more similar, talking about EU server.

[Karagee.6830]

19 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

the problem A I perceive it too, I very often have the feeling that the system counts or verifies the number of players and their limit so slowly that everyone has the opportunity to abuse. problem B in my opinion can be regioned much later.

I mean if I have 27 buckets of water, and some are full and others are almost empty, if you decrease their capacity and if you can not throw water on the ground, you can only transfer from full to empty, as a result you will have 27 buckets with a water level more similar, talking about EU server.

And that's why I'm skeptical and think B is a much bigger problem than people think. If you are unsure whether server A or server B has a bigger population (considering even active people don't always play the same amount of hours every week) then you can't properly encourage people to go towards one or the other.

But yeah I feel like the current system does absolutely nothing and most notably allows big mass transfers to the same servers which are not even the least populated. If they fixed that (with steep cost increases for transfers once more people keep transferring to high or very high servers) we could check if things improve at least in T1. 

[Nymthalas.4019]

On 7/29/2022 at 5:48 PM, Virdo.1540 said:

Imagine giving Drakkar lake NO partner, while it even struggles WITH a Partner to not be worst EU-Server

Should not be linked, it has high population, has the same language restriction as Baruch (which is NEVER linked). And its funny coming to the forums feeling entitled to ask for a server to carry you out of t5 , when usually  drakkar players refuse to colaborate or even use english with international servers(There is only one exception that i know of). Big nope.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Nymthalas.4019

[Virdo.1540]

2 hours ago, Nymthalas.4019 said:

Should not be linked, it has high population, has the same language restriction as Baruch (which is NEVER linked). And its funny coming to the forums feeling entitled to ask for a server to carry you out of t5 , when usually  drakkar players refuse to colaborate or even use english with international servers(There is only one exception that i know of). Big nope.

Baruch bay is the most populated server due to being the only spanish. It can never be full.

And the drakkar population is completely broken. There are never zergs around, no real roamers or something. Rarely you see one single person flipping spawn camps with its 8 alts, nothing more. Drakkar doesnt have many players, but those who are there offer little groups "zergs" even with english speaking commander in teamspeak. Even with an completely busted server its barely able to hold in t4.

[senftube.6081]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:26 PM, Nymthalas.4019 said:

Should not be linked, it has high population, has the same language restriction as Baruch (which is NEVER linked). And its funny coming to the forums feeling entitled to ask for a server to carry you out of t5 , when usually  drakkar players refuse to colaborate or even use english with international servers(There is only one exception that i know of). Big nope.

 

Lol, Brauch has alot of Int. Players from other Timezones because it is the only spanish Server in Guild Wars 2. German Servers hosts only Germans with 1 Timezone. Bad comparison.

Not everyone likes to talk in English, thats why you have national servers. Then there are players who are  much older than you and they didn't had english in shool.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Yunari.9065

[Karagee.6830]

20 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

 

Lol, Brauch has alot of Int. Players from other Timezones because it is the only spanish Server in Guild Wars 2. German Servers hosts only Germans with 1 Timezone. Bad comparison.

Not everyone likes to talk in English, thats why you have national servers. Then there are players who are  much older than you and they didn't had english in shool.

All understandable. What is your solution? Have a server like BB for Germans? Be careful what you wish for and just know that you will have to take the bad with the good...also it seems most german servers don't like each other for some reason.

I think language barriers are overblown in WvW. When I put up a tag (typically I take pity on the people playing on my server that are getting farmed as we're outnumbered everywhere, but I run in a small party all the time with the same guys) some people who join, never say anything in chat, never reply to direct questions etc. and they are supposed to speak English. I have no idea why, they never say anything, but still follow and help, as long as it suits them.

You can link most things in group chat and people will understand, even if they don't speak your language. I have joined groups of French players before, where I was the only non-french, and my usual night group joined Virdo's (German, above) during an Alliance beta testing. I don't think we talked much in the hour and a half of roaming we did together, we probably even kept separate groups, and it was still very enjoyable and were able to roam together without problem including switching maps etc.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

Well it seems T1 and T3 EU are fairly balanced this week, especially if, as you'd expect, Deso will have a good night tonight.

T1 will last only this week as GH+WSR will promote next week and they seem to outnumber any other team.

[Nymthalas.4019]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:50 PM, Yunari.9065 said:

 

Lol, Brauch has alot of Int. Players from other Timezones because it is the only spanish Server in Guild Wars 2. German Servers hosts only Germans with 1 Timezone. Bad comparison.

Not everyone likes to talk in English, thats why you have national servers. Then there are players who are  much older than you and they didn't had english in shool.

 

We go back to my first statement, if the reason for linking is not to balance population then you are asking to be carried out of t5. Second why do you assume i was taught English at school?

And the last the big problem with Drakkar is attitude(there are some good exceptions), not only ask to be carried out of t5, also having players insulting players from other servers because of small mistakes and such, although being carried. That is just an example, because I dont want to list all the things that you should already know happens with Drakkar and dont care.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Nymthalas.4019

[Junkpile.7439]

It's Wednesday and already there is +200k score difference in many matchups. Anet really can think if they did good job and maybe try to learn something. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Junkpile.7439

[Odin.6487]

And once again, Anet proves that not a single dev actually plays WvW. Wake the kitten up anet and actually get a dedicated WvW team.

[Xenesis.6389]

On 8/10/2022 at 9:35 AM, Junkpile.7439 said:

It's Wednesday and already there is +200k score difference in many matchups. Anet really can think if they did good job and maybe try to learn something. 

It's also the week that matches don't matter...

[Loboling.5293]

As much as I hate the idea of allying with maguuma, it's better than fighting against them... Haha kitten Spawn Campers.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Loboling.5293

[Burial.1958]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:26 PM, Nymthalas.4019 said:

Should not be linked, it has high population, has the same language restriction as Baruch (which is NEVER linked). And its funny coming to the forums feeling entitled to ask for a server to carry you out of t5 , when usually  drakkar players refuse to colaborate or even use english with international servers(There is only one exception that i know of). Big nope.

It doesn't has the same restriction like Baruch. Baruch can never be full.....

[Karagee.6830]

On 8/27/2022 at 8:49 PM, Grebcol.5984 said:

It doesn't has the same restriction like Baruch. Baruch can never be full.....

People dont understand the basics of the situation. Let's say the top 6 servers and last 3 servers have the following population: 90, 76, 72, 70, 65, 62...45, 40, 35. 90 would be BB, 76 Gandara and 72 Deso (for argument's sake). Now assume the top 3 servers get no link and the rest are linked in reverse order (this is most likely not the case but it's a discussion for another time). The teams resulting from these 9 servers now are: 90, 76, 72, 105, 105, 107. Now, of these servers 100 is open, 76 is full, 72 is full and the rest are de facto open because even if the host server is full the links are not.

Predictably, 90, 76 and 72 end in T5, with the first yo-yoing to T4 and the last 2 stuck to fight each other for 2 months. With no possibility to improve their situation, because they are full and closed.

So the obvious solution would be to either remove 2 or 3 servers or let whichever server is unlinked to be open for transfers up to the same population as BB. Because the problem in all of this is that the 76/72 servers will never have the chance of having a decent match because that would require 3 servers with population in the mid 70s not 2 (and I could live with having reasonably balanced matches every other week).

So yeah, since they dont seem keen on removing 2/3 servers, then the least bad quick fix would be to keep any unlinked server at very high just like BB.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[browolf.3825]

when is the next relink?