Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Wait , ... more accessible , you mean for blind people ? Or people with physical disabilities (like no arms ?) , then quickly , we must say to anet to completely delete ele from the game !!! If one of those people try ele they could sue anet for false advertising !! Ele being not accessible at all (4 attunements , what the heck ! i have to hover to 4 attunements !!! ouinnnn ... they said the game was easy an accessible...)

Leveling down , till we reach the bottom ---> mobile games ! 👌

I didnt mean to be offensive to you Obtena.7952 , you just state what anet said , but when you have an afk build performing as well as a crazybuttonmasher build , everyone is gonna take his wheelchair and fake the disability, if you get my point.

Again, I'm not going to argue with people making sensational rhetoric. I mean, why is it such a problem if everyone fakes disability to choose Mechanist? 

I mean, it's OK for people to flock to using other builds because of whatever reasons, but the second they do it for mechanist because it's easy, it's some doomsday scenario? Not buying it. 

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I mean, what amount of damage would it be acceptable for Mech to hit without input (what can other classes hit?)? Because the issue is not how much damage mechs can do NOW for little effort, but how how much damage they have always been able to do with little effort, but now with even less effort.

The problem here is the nature of the mech, and how power is distributed to the base engineer.

The only way to properly 'fix' this is to require the elite spec to need to dip into its utilities to pump out that amount of damage. And then that brings us back to base engineer problems and balancing of kits and weapons.

In short, they have made it incredibly hard to bring LI mech to position where people aren't going to whine one way or another without also making a normal mech rotation stupid.

The best they can do is fix core Engineer. Something they have been needing to do anyway.

For what it is worth, I have found it to not be either helpful or fun to set the mech command skills to auto in T4/CMs. 2/3 of the mech skills most Power DPS take have hefty CCs and being able to choose when to use them is more valuable than going Zombie mode.

Edited August 3, 2022 by lorddarkflare.9186

[ThunderX.6591]

The build don't hit 28k....... the build as wrote in other posts hit with autopet 23k, without hit 21k (lost 2k dps from AARocket change with patch 02/08).

Done testing, and Ele get hammer nerfed because people used hammer skill 1 fire attuned in a non wanted mode to up the dps a lot, so, hammer get nerfed. (is writtten in the info on patch 28/06)

[zeyeti.8347]

the build dont hit 28k well , here are facts ! done this morning . And i didnt even put all condi on it , so it should be a little more higher ..

just change your mace for rifle and play power and you ok.

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

37 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, it's OK for people to flock to using other builds because of whatever reasons, but the second they do it for mechanist because it's easy, it's some doomsday scenario? Not buying it. 

The problem is , the damage it does with 0 effort at all . 28k while sleeping , drinking a beer , making your laudry whatsoever , you want another to prove that those update are completely stupid... 

 

Guy literally doesnt care while catalysts are doing their sweaty workout rotation , and the damage they does is not op , they actually press buttons (thats before THE patch , who raped quick catalyst and banner warrior)... and it gives alacrity !!! kitten .

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

The problem is , the damage it does with 0 effort at all .

 

Again with the sensational rhetoric ... not going to do you much good here.  For someone that 'undersatnds' accessibility, you should understand why that's not a problem because as I said, the mob doesn't care how much effort you do. The important thing is allowing people to focus on the game mechanics, not the DPS rotations. 

It's not a problem for Anet ... why? Oh yeah, because they WANT builds like this to exist for accessibility. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Funny, it's not a problem for Anet ... why? Oh yeah, because they WANT builds like this to exist for LI players. 

Ok with that , so high intensity build should at least do 33% more damage than them , if not ? why even bother playing something complicated when you have the option ? challenge ? ok , challenge needs reward , so if i play my ele i should get 2x more golds and xp and karma and loots than mechs players , sounds fair no ? high risk , high value , low risk low value and the value here is nor the loot or the gold , it's to see that , you doing a perfectly accurate rotation blows away the afk/sleeping builds , and thats not the case atm .

if we play this way then every AA in the game should be at least as effective as the rifle engi AA, and there we go for a freaking boring game ....

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Ok with that , so high intensity build should at least do 33% more damage than them , if not ? why even bother playing something complicated when you have the option ? challenge ? ok , challenge needs reward , so if i play my ele i should get 2x more golds and xp and karma and loots than mechs players , sounds fair no ? high risk , high value , low risk low value and the value here is nor the loot or the gold , it's to see that , you doing a perfectly accurate rotation blows away the afk/sleeping builds , and thats not the case atm .

Obviously people have more reasons to play other builds than you give them credit for because they do. The mistake you make here is relating effort with DPS output. That's just not how balancing is going to work in a game where accessibility is a factor (maybe even the primary one) in how it's designed. 

but sure ... keep telling me you 'understand' accessibility. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Obviously people have more reasons to play other builds than you give them credit for because they do. 

data : https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity strangely mech is at at strong 25% in both raids and strikes , guess why ?

I like your politics but show me data ! And if you bring up the open world , well you can play naked with a  wood plank you will still feel méta in the open world stuff.

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

data : https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity strangely mech is at at strong 25% in both raids and strikes , guess why ?

I like your politics but show me data ! And if you bring up the open world , well you can play naked with a  wood plank you will still feel méta in the open world stuff.

There is no data needed to understand that these builds exist because it makes the game more accessible to people. If people want to play mechanist in raids and strikes, it's not a problem, regardless of the reason they choose to do so. Just like it's not a problem if people want to play anything else in raids or strikes for whatever reasons they have to do so. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

i do not understand accessibility , having a game that take you by the hand and plays in your place is not a thing called game, for me .

They should balance that , as i said 20 times having something dealing so much damage afk isnt normal at all. And there is a gap between accessibilty and easiness , acessibilty is more at how the game introduce you into his mechanics , Vale guardian for example has the 3 mini boss prephase who introduce in every mechanics once at at time , after getting the 3 of them at same time , thats accessibilty for me , explanation . The rifle mech is just pure lazyness dps build and the thing with its popularity is that i am afraid that the whole game will sooner or later , tranform into hybrid pc-mobile game .

But accessibilty has many definition i have my own , you have your own.

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There is no data needed to understand that these builds exist because it makes the game more accessible to people. If people want to play mechanist in raids and strikes, it's not a problem, regardless of the reason they choose to do so. Just like it's not a problem if people want to play anything else in raids or strikes for whatever reasons they have to do so. 

You've never been asked to play something else when you come as tempest/alacheal for fractals cause you dotn give stab nor aegis and have huge gaps in healing rotation ? well i , yes ! Guess what i switched for ?

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

18 hours ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

This would be a perfect counter argument for a game that had challenging or punishing game mechanics with hard failure states. The amount of encounters designed like this in our game is minimal to non-existent. You can do 95% of this games content by ignoring all mechanics and dpsing harder. 

Depends on the player actually. But even if your statistic is correct, it's actually an argument FOR Anet to continue to balance around accessibility. 

I mean, why don't you tell us what you are actually concerned about here ... because the guy doing 28K DPS with 0 APM doesn't actually have an impact on how YOU play the game. So what's the real issue here?

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

as i always say , you should do damage proportionnaly of the effort you put in , having an afk build hiting 28k is not right

"28k" is fine on a purely selfish DPS focussed build even if it is for "zero effort". People are way to obsessed with DPS numbers when evaluating how "good" something is ignoring that not offering meaningful support is already a huge loss when it comes to overall group performance.

1 hour ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

what can other classes hit?

With AA spam: around 30k (iirc. Mirage has more but you need to dodge in between).

41 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

The problem is , the damage it does with 0 effort at all .

No, if people can go "to sleep / drink a beer / whatever" then the problem is with the fight itself (assuming it's supposed to be difficult).

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You've never been asked to play something else when you come as tempest/alacheal for fractals cause you dotn give stab nor aegis and have huge gaps in healing rotation ? well i , yes ! Guess what i switched for ?

Whether I have been or not is irrelevant. I'm simply telling you these builds exist because they make the game accessible to players. For some reason, you see a reason to use this to complain about balance, which is ironically likely affected by Anet's desire to be accessible for a wide range of players. 

But do go on ... 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

It has impact ! the impact is frustration , i have waited for 5 years to have a decent heal , support or dps as an ele , and all patches here are about mechs buffs and mech more easiness or "accessibilty" as you call it , pressing f1 is so hard ? well try play weaver then and hit the 35k benchmark , trust me you will never talk again about accessibilty after trying that.

 

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

It has impact ! the impact is frustration , i have waited for 5 years to have a decent heal , support or dps as an ele , and all patches here are about mechs buffs and mech more easiness or "accessibilty" as you call it , pressing f1 is so hard ? well try play weaver then and hit the 35k benchmark , trust me you will never talk again about accessibilty after trying that.

 

Whether these builds exist or not has nothing to do with you getting these things. Scapegoat much?

like somehow if  mechanist was not LI build for accessibility, all your problems would be fixed? That's absurd. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

3 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

"28k" is fine on a purely selfish DPS focussed build even if it is for "zero effort". People are way to obsessed with DPS numbers when evaluating how "good" something is ignoring that not offering meaningful support is already a huge loss when it comes to overall group performance.

thats another point , but healers and support in this game are also overpowered , they provide evrything so you can full dps and dont care at all. 

 

4 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

No, if people can go "to sleep / drink a beer / whatever" then the problem is with the fight itself (assuming it's supposed to be difficult).

And yes thats a bigger issue , agree.

[Taclism.2406]

Its almost like a dev said they'll keep buffing mech until people see using kits as a form of grief

[zeyeti.8347]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Whether these builds exist or not has nothing to do with you getting these things. Scapegoat much?

like somehow if  mechanist was not LI build for accessibility, all your problems would be fixed? That's absurd. 

Not at all , the issue is here anet patching something that shouldnt be patched , what about dragon hunter ? what about ele ? They are turning there effort on something that was already super ez to play and somehow they made it braindead . The main issue is other classes having 0 attention from anet , and sorry to say that but data matters ! a whole class less at 4% in some content mean that this class need a fairly high rework ... So getting a patch to make the most broken class of the game , and iam not only talking about dps , its also about support and healing.  Mechs have 6 builds in snowcrow sites , look at ele ? it has 3 , 3 for a whole class ....

stop denying there is no problem , ther is a problem , dont know what , but the head of anet must be an iron man fan !

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Not at all , the issue is here anet patching something that shouldnt be patched , what about dragon hunter ? what about ele ? They are turning there effort on something that was already super ez to play and somehow they made it braindead . The main issue is other classes having 0 attention from anet , and sorry to say that but data matters ! a whole class less at 4% in some content mean that this class need a fairly high rework ...

You don't get to tell Anet what they should and shouldn't patch. What you think they shouldn't patch has nothing to do with how absurd it is complain about changes to LI mechanist build because you didn't get new toys for your favourite class. Those things aren't even related, even though you think they are. I mean, you didn't complain that Mesmer's got changes instead of your class ... you scapegoated mechanist for that because it's an easy target because of '0 APM DPS' bandwagoneers. Seems to me you don't even know what problem you are complaining about here. 

There might be a problem, but it's not that Mechanist is a LI build that does 28K or that it got some changes in the last patch.  

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

18 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You don't get to tell Anet what they should and shouldn't patch. That doesn't change the fact that it's absurd to complain about changes to LI builds because you didn't get new toys for your favourite class. Those things aren't even related, even though you think they are. 

As a gamer who purchased the game and as every player in the game , yes i can tell what i want just giving my point of view , sure iam not 100% accurate about the changes i state , but so do you . Anet doing what they want anyway so , i have my freedom of speech as you have . And those things are related ! data relate it ! What about class diversity , when i play raids i only see firebrands and mechs all over the place , at this point just delete the rest. Even i play the lazy mech now .

anyway i hope anet are gonna give some love to the forgotten E and core  specs , cause some of them need it it really hard !

And about player telling anet what they should patch or not , when i see +5% crit.chance into arms (traitline for condi dps warrior) or +5ù crit chance only once attuned in air as ele , well actually any player can tell them what to patch , cause player know the game better than them .

Just look at the blob trash comments about the infamous 10 july patch. You gonna tell me this patch was good maybe ?

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Salt Mode.3780]

IIRC didnt anet want to stay away from AI builds...? 

[zeyeti.8347]

21 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, you didn't complain that Mesmer's got changes instead of your class ... you scapegoated mechanist for that because it's an easy target because of '0 APM DPS' bandwagoneers

Try AA as a mesmer , gonna see the difference , chrono needed some changes , the class was not played anymore ,  Mech doesnt need any more updates , as numbers , as mechanics or as qol changes , it was already the most lackluster class of the game. When you do not press any button , you should do 0 damage or at least very little damage . Thats like all games works , you press a button something happen , you press nothing , nothing happen , except in gw 2 it seems .

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Had a Machinist benching 60k at Drakkar tonight, the 2nd highest spot was 30k, also another Machinist. Everyone else was 10k, and they were actually doing rotations inbetween getting slammed around.

 

Rifle is fine, the Mech is still doing way too much damage though. A pet mechanic should never be getting exponential damage boosts like players do, and currently no other pet profession has access to this behavior except Rangers a little bit through the Beastmastery line.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508