why isn't WvW balanced seperately or put on the PVP balance teams shoulders and use PvP gear instead of PvE

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

41 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Would you want people running around as turret engs and minion necros AFK killing people like mech can now in an action combat game?

 

The irony of this comment is that, this is exactly what the Spvp meta became after February 2020...which is when they installed the "nerf everything remove options and amulets" philosophy.

Edited August 14, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Kozumi.5816]

3 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

The irony of this comment is that, this is exactly what the Spvp meta became after February 2020...which is when they installed the "nerf everything remove options and amulets" philosophy.

Except it's not, and hasn't ever been? You have to run zerker builds to kill anyone, and then you're a glass cannon that dies in an instant. Damage was insanely high last time I played SPvP(post feb, too!), sure there was unkillable bunkers(not intentiional), but at least they couldn't be an unkillable bunker that also had access to minsrels/celestial gear.

They also go out of their way to nerf unkillable builds, unlike the WvW """""devs""""", who seem to want the game mode to be blobs of players who can't die unless they run into a bigger blob of equally organized players. AKA numbers > all.

[Kozumi.5816]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Stop assuming that 0 boon duration gear would stop 50 players from having perma boon access.

Boon duration is an irrelevant stat, boons are perpetually spammed. Minstrels and celestial have TOUGHNESS and VITALITY.

Not to mention 10% DR or CC duration reduction food which is a complete joke and shouldn't even exist in the first place.

I won't argue, I've stated my opinion and I will let you know: The silent majority who quit this game(or WvW) long ago agree with me. If you want your game mode to grow, I recommend you start advocating for changes that actually attracts people to it.

Step1 is gear/balance copying SPvP.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[greedywholesome.9081]

What's a pvp balance team? I'm genuinely curious

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Boon duration is an irrelevant stat, boons are perpetually spammed. Minstrels and celestial have TOUGHNESS and VITALITY.

Not to mention 10% DR or CC duration reduction food which is a complete joke and shouldn't even exist in the first place.

The toughness and vitality are indeed higher, but so is the power and condition damage. The problem right now stems from the fact that the balance team started to balance WvW like PvP during Feb2020 where they nuked all the power coefficients and condition durations. Bringing in the rest of the bad balance habits from PvP (deleting amulets rather than fixing the actual problems) will just result in people leaving this mode like they have PvP.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

39 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Except it's not, and hasn't ever been? You have to run zerker builds to kill anyone, and then you're a glass cannon that dies in an instant. Damage was insanely high last time I played SPvP(post feb, too!), sure there was unkillable bunkers(not intentiional), but at least they couldn't be an unkillable bunker that also had access to minsrels/celestial gear.

 

Another irony of your logic: celestial gear is the most balanced and homogenous stat assignment you can theoretically make btw (equal stat distribution) … and here you are calling it imbalanced lol! That should ring a few bells and red flags… that homogeneity does not work to balance a game. It’s a fundamentally flawed balance philosophy for a game as complex as gw2.

 

Also ya Mm Necro was meta for about 2 years post feb…did you even play Spvp?

Edited August 14, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Kozumi.5816]

15 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Another irony of your logic: celestial gear is the most balanced and homogenous stat assignment you can theoretically make btw (equal stat distribution)

Celestial gear has more stat points than other gear. It's mathematically better.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

28 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Celestial gear has more stat points than other gear. It's mathematically better.

Ya and if it had the same number of stats (as others) it would mathematically suck and nobody would ever use it.

 

But stop avoiding the point: it is technically and mathematically the most balanced stat set… it’s imba because balance is a lot more complicated then just making everything the same.

Edited August 15, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:12 PM, pikalovr.4613 said:

you can't be serious my guy based on your logic no sort of progression in the game should ever be looked at period end of story. 

 

 

MMOs are all about progression. I am not certain you meant this the way you wrote it. You might step in and out of sPvP for 15 minutes of play but a lot of WvWers are in for a lot more time than that. Not sure what you read into Subversiontwo's thread, but I think you took it differently.

 

 

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sPvP gear works cause it automatically puts EVERYONE at an equal playing field.

 

WvW is endgame, its where you go after spending the time elsewhere. It will never be even. That's why you bring your own gear. That's the balance of it. Choose on your own when you are ready to go. The time spent to build up to it is each players own choice. Entering it with low level white and green gear was rough, but showed quickly why you want to gear up. 

 

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not to mention if you go from say playing PvP to WvW it'll be a far smoother transition. nobody in their right mind would look at WvW and go "you know what let me tie that in with PvE" cause how the kitten does PvE fit WvW better than PvP??

 

Ironically that is the issue with the sPvP amulet system. People in the past would use sPvP to practice for WvW until they started limiting the stat builds. It was a good theory practice field in a limited way for WvW until they removed builds that were deemed as too slow for e-sports. So again, no, it doesn't fit in WvW. You aren't going to win solo fights in white gear but you can still take part. That doesn't mean that sPvP players won't do well in WvW, they make great roamers but if they aren't used to fighting 5v50 they might see it unbalanced to what they might be used to.

 

 

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WvW IS PVP ORIENTED end of story. guards die in 5 seconds even with iron skin the mob camps also die extremely quickly. there's no reason to tie balancing to PvE and not implement even the most basic anti-frustating mechanics like not being able to chain stealths or multiwarps. 

 

I don't think people were implying to tie it to PvE balance, but they were saying it also doesn't match sPvP, and the skills and amulet system are separate issues, please stop trying to mix the topic as they are separate. One doesn't justify the other when you will rarely get a simple 5v5 but more likely get a 5v5v50.

 

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if anybody here doesn't see the full picture it's you cause you completely wanna ignore midcore and smallcore fights.

 

Roamer/havoc here mostly, this is the fights you say are imbalanced that I don't see while out there. If anything small scale faces the same issue as large scale, boon are the current top dogs. But no, while roaming, don't see a single class more than all the others.

 

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for what the 2 potentially 40-50 man boonballs that are gonna sit there and basically play war of attrition with eachother cause thats how stale and boring the meta has gotten?

 

This we agree on, there is too much boons going on versus a balance between it and conversion or strips. But again this has not as much to do about gear, a zerk build fully booned has a ton of defense from boons uptake.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:46 AM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Incorrect. Boonballs don't exist in SPvP because it deleted broken stat combinations that have no place in this games PvP. The best 5v5 WvW roaming comp is 5 celestial/minstrel  bunkers all sharing boons. Aka a boonball.

 

Boonballs exist in any gear type. Its the ability of classes to issue so many so fast. If they occur in small scale WvW they do in sPvP as well. You just don't see it as much because in sPvP if you are using more than a solo player a point you are probably using too many but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen is a group gathered on one. And that got nothing to do with the gear stats, that's the skills. So again, no sPvP is a different environment with different objectives. One person trying to take a keep is going to lose to the 50 coming to defend it. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

18 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

AKA numbers > all.

 

Yes, we can agree there. Numbers make the difference, gear and stat combos won't ever fix that. The issue here is until efficiency plays a factor in game play nothing else will matter. I am a server pride kind of player. Wasn't asking for Alliances or any of that and think they should have just closed servers and given people free transfers, but after this far forward want the system to roll out. Now the why of that statement comes from wanting to have a reason to win, because until we do there will be no call for efficiency. Where as after there might be more thoughts on why are we using 50 to take this. When 3 could, move on to where we need those numbers. After first entering WvW had a tag that understood that during the tournament times. They would attack a map and based on resistance would break their zerg into pieces to not take a single objective but the entire map at the same time and then return to EB. That's why I like havocs, it about doing the most with the fewest needed and there is nothing better than when you can get 50 people chasing 6 around a map since you know they are being distracted from the force they should be out hunting that's waiting for them. 

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 8/11/2022 at 3:06 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

WvW will be trash until they start using the SPvP amulet/sigil/rune system and SPvP balancing.

Anyone who disagrees just likes abusing broken things and doesn't like good PvP.

No thanks.  I like the prospect of actually taking objectives and fine-tuning builds with differing stat combinations than the blatantly-obvious "pick this amulet" non-choice that exists in sPvP.  WvW was

Your qualms with WvW are the same as anyone else's which is that support spec stat blocks are overpowered and actually investing in selfish offense traits is always suboptimal because support and boon vomit in this game is grossly overpowered, and is in concurrence that the very nature of certain stat blocks in GW2 is fundamentally bad for the integrity of action-oriented gameplay, such as allowing party-wide AoE support and healing that's immensely overpowered in raw stats (boons and similar effects + nerfed damage values from 2020) coming from a tank (Minstrel), or a tank dealing similar damage as a full DPS (Dire/TB).

Amulets aren't some kind of inherently good solution here.  The problem is these stat blocks and how they interact with the rest of the game are just not balanced on a fundamental level and were a mistake, even in PvE.  If your tank can make 9 other players deal 15% more damage, even if played perfectly, the party always benefits in both offense and defense from the tank being there, and encourages more people to stack up this way if for nothing else than to stay alive and consolidate roles.

ANet just doesn't have the balls to remove bad-decision stat blocks like Minstrel's and Dire/TB like they did for Magic Find.  They'd rather endlessly double-down in the name of OW PvE and the tiny raid community than balance their competitive modes, because said devs just don't play the competitive modes.

Edited August 15, 2022 by DeceiverX.8361

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Alot of players in here who have apparently never played a Realm Vs Realm (RvR) game before and don't understand how they work, or that alot of the complaints are intentional design decisions?

 

The whole fact that its not SPvP is what attracts players to it: the large-scale battles, the chaos, the unpredictable 1v1s. Some players don't want to be on equal footing, they want to go into it never knowing whats going to happen. It also immensely helps players with social anxiety who can't participate in small-scale staged PvP due to the overemphasis on personal performance, being singled out by enemies, and so on.

 

RvR game modes were originally introduced into MMOs to solve alot of the problems of SPvP, and because of that each will always have their own player base. If anything, this game has gone backwards by removing more and more PvE elements from WvW: nerfing siege, streamlining builds and so on, making it more and more predictable to the point where some battles are starting to feel like they're staged.

 

If anything we need to bring back the fun that was lost, not remove it even more. (And as I've said many times, double the target cap on offensive skills..)

Edited August 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Voyant.1327]

I think WvW is in a better state then PvP personally. Being able to have a mode where gear matters is a part of it. PvP feels like I'm playing a different class even in the same spec as PvE. WvW the gearing allows me to at least get somewhere closer to how my class feels elsewhere.

That and the fact all you have is 5v5 capture the flag for 2 months at a time. WvW you can actually have fun engagements, duel in fields, sneak around, and a variety of other things... In PvP all they have to balance around is 5 people parties in the same circumstances over and over.

If anything PvP needs to learn from the diversity of enjoyment WvW can provide..  Where as PvP is pretty much just endless rounds of who drew the short stick. 

[Odin.6487]

because a vast majority of wvwers are bad at the game and use crutches like celegear and durability runes. 

[Odin.6487]

because a vast majority of wvwers are bad at the game and use crutches like celegear and durability runes. 

 

guys, anet wont and cant balance WvW. they can hardly keep up with the pve side of the game. just come to terms that anet sucks at developing.