Well, Steam complaints are starting to flood in...

[Miragen.6127]

2 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Meh. Depends on your opinions. I am a rather new player as I started a couple years ago. I didn’t feel left behind or overwhelmed by stuff to do. Quite the contrary. I was looking forward to hundreds or thousands of hours working my way up to where I wanted to be. And I had a lot of fun doing so.
 

I probably have more stuff and mastery points then many casual veterans as I am fully leveled up with masteries and have all the legendaries I need. And I got those by playing the game and not with my wallet as some players prefer. neither way is good or bad as it depends how you want your gaming experience to be. Gw2 has been the game costing me least money since I started playing mmos when fiesta online was a thing. 

 

I'm not overwhelmed by stuff to do, quite the opposite.. it's just a worse experience than it was 10 years ago because games have developed since then, FF 14 wasn't relevant, ESO didn't exist, New World didn't exist.. or alternatives like Destiny 2, Path of Exile.. World of Warcraft has added an extra 5 expansions or so since then.. but Guild wars 2 is still using their 2012 game to draw new players in?

 

A lot of the things that GW2 did differently as also common place in other games, if you're a FF14 player they'll be familiar with fates and whatnot.

And aside from everything else that has happened, the game itself is worse because back in 2012 it was the full experience, now it's a limited experience where you're constantly reminded of the limited experience, you don't have mounts, gliders, masteries or all the meta builds available, you're always surrounded by veterans that are 10x stronger than you and 10x faster than you.. it's a very lacking experience for new players.

 

I'm just saying that maybe it's time to wake up and acknowledge that after 10 years the base game isn't quite the experience people pretend that it is. You don't advertise the latest Bethesda game either by letting people play 2011 Skyrim.

[Freya.9075]

15 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

I'm not overwhelmed by stuff to do, quite the opposite.. it's just a worse experience than it was 10 years ago because games have developed since then, FF 14 wasn't relevant, ESO didn't exist, New World didn't exist.. or alternatives like Destiny 2, Path of Exile.. World of Warcraft has added an extra 5 expansions or so since then.. but Guild wars 2 is still using their 2012 game to draw new players in?

 

A lot of the things that GW2 did differently as also common place in other games, if you're a FF14 player they'll be familiar with fates and whatnot.

And aside from everything else that has happened, the game itself is worse because back in 2012 it was the full experience, now it's a limited experience where you're constantly reminded of the limited experience, you don't have mounts, gliders, masteries or all the meta builds available, you're always surrounded by veterans that are 10x stronger than you and 10x faster than you.. it's a very lacking experience for new players.

 

I'm just saying that maybe it's time to wake up and acknowledge that after 10 years the base game isn't quite the experience people pretend that it is. You don't advertise the latest Bethesda game either by letting people play 2011 Skyrim.

This is your opinion and feelings about the topic. Not mine and not many others. You’re free to feel the game has nothing for you anymore as do others and even new players. But that doesn’t change that many ppl still love the game and feel it gives them a lot and new players also feel it’s a great game they want to spend many hours playing. You cannot expect a game that is 10 years old to compete with a game like world of Warcraft. Gw2 does really good with their own game and should be appreciated for what it is. If it’s not the game for you then it’s fine. 
 

and the ff14 fate thing goes both ways. I tried ff14 and wow after I started gw2 and they felt clunky and boring to me so I stopped playing them. It didn’t do a good job “hooking” me to the ff14 and wow hype and I am a huge final fantasy fanatic as I’ve played all of them since I was very young 

[Miragen.6127]

Just now, Freya.9075 said:

This is your opinion and feelings about the topic. Not mine and not many others. You’re free to feel the game has nothing for you anymore as do others and even new players. But that doesn’t change that many ppl still love the game and feel it gives them a lot and new players also feel it’s a great game they want to spend many hours playing. You cannot expect a game that is 10 years old to compete with a game like world of Warcraft. Gw2 does really good with their own game and should be appreciated for what it is. If it’s not the game for you then it’s fine. 
 

and the ff14 fate thing goes both ways. I tried ff14 and wow after I started gw2 and they felt clunky and boring to me so I stopped playing them. It didn’t do a good job “hooking” me to the ff14 and wow hype and I am a huge final fantasy fanatic as I’ve played all of them since I was very young 

 

Why can a 10 year old game not compete with a 20 year old game exactly?

And the Steam release is an interesting look at popularity, they all have their own launchers and Steam is a secondary avenue, and sure the other games have been around longer, but FF14 has 50k players, New world has 20k, ESO has 20k, PoE has 75k, Destiny 2 as 140k and GW2 is not even on the board.. those are all potential players the game could attract but makes no effort to do so.

 

Regardless if you enjoy the game or not, I do not believe a 2012 game should be your main tool to draw in new players.

[Freya.9075]

1 minute ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Why can a 10 year old game not compete with a 20 year old game exactly?

And the Steam release is an interesting look at popularity, they all have their own launchers and Steam is a secondary avenue, and sure the other games have been around longer, but FF14 has 50k players, New world has 20k, ESO has 20k, PoE has 75k, Destiny 2 as 140k and GW2 is not even on the board.. those are all potential players the game could attract but makes no effort to do so.

 

Regardless if you enjoy the game or not, I do not believe a 2012 game should be your main tool to draw in new players.

Anet does not have the same budget blizzard does. It’s unrealistic to expect them to keep pushing out expansions all the time. Gw2 is in the top 10 mmos for a reason. The fact that it’s able to remain there is an achievement on its own

[alphafert.6730]

I keep hearing about this $100 price tag but it's $30 for hot & pof then $30 for eod. You can get the lw for gems if you don't want to spend cash. At most it's a few hrs of farming for enough gold to exchange for the lw. 

 

This is steam though. I'm convinced there is a player base that focus on the game of complaining on the forum. 

[Naxos.2503]

We really need to get Moderation on the Steam forums, the disinformation is getting out of hand.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

6 hours ago, Darkobra.6439 said:

The combat in FF14 evolved and BECAME something great. It really was abysmal pre-Heavensward. In GW2, you're basically still locked to zergfest and berserker is king. I came back for the 10 year anniversary, tried again, I am legit bored fighting things in this game. 10 years and nothing has changed at all. Nothing evolved. 

I can see they TRIED to do things different with defiance bars and adding a tier of strategy. It didn't. But I guess it's really aiming at the casual market after all. Which, honestly, is fine, but they abandon huge amounts to pander purely to the casuals. After all, casuals are the most likely to spend extra money in their gem store. But the story doesn't even grasp me either. Two actors on a watercolour background talking back and forward about details in a speedrun of a story doesn't hold up. 

At least in 14, things evolved over YEARS and everything tied up nicely. It had real cutscenes, real characters and they weren't just a parody of themselves. 

GW1 was great. It should have kept the same formula. GW2 is just ticking boxes off a checklist and PRAYING it's finally over.

FFXIV is a great game, it's the most popular MMORPG out there for a reason. But there are things about it that GW2 does better just due to having different design philosophies.

 

My recommendation between the two is usually to play FFXIV if you want a highly curated experience and GW2 if you want to do your own thing. The curated experience in FFXIV is VERY GOOD. But you have to follow the story, you have no say in what abilities you get or how you gear or what weapon you use. One character can be any class but all players of that class will play the same. This isn't a bug, either, it's a feature.

 

GW2 is more of an open world experience where you are free to self direct, probably the only one out there other than ESO where weapon skills make every class feel the same. (Like, however much people complain about that in GW2 it is even more true in ESO since weapon skills are separate from class skills. Want to be stamina dps? Better dual wield and use the dual wield attacks on front bar and have a bow on back bar regardless of your class. Want to be magicka? Fire staff on both bars baby and back bar drops the AoEs Gear set bonuses can make for some interesting gearing options though).

 

EDIT: I should clarify for people not familiar with these games. In ESO I am talking about cookie cutter builds locking every player into a small set of options. If you want to just go crazy and solo things it has plenty of room for experimentation, to its credit. In FFXIV there is no experimentation with your build or gear whatsoever.

Edited August 25, 2022 by RadiantWolf.2058

[Maikimaik.1974]

12 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

WoW does. Each incremental patch between expansion releases is "free" in that there is no extra charge to participate in it. I.E the patches that add Raids, new zones, new dungeons, etc.

FFXIV does similar with its incremental patches between expansions.

ESO doesn't, but ESO's system is, imo, terrible. It has an "optional" but not optional sub where you lose access to the DLC content if it runs out.

Lost Ark and Black Desert Online, two notable MMORPGs, also offer free content releases. I.E new zones, new dungeons, new raids, etc. The former of which is also F2P.

Well this is highly dishonest considering both WoW and FFXIV charge monthly subscription fees that are 4 to 5 times more expensive than a single LW episode.

[Miragen.6127]

21 minutes ago, alphafert.6730 said:

I keep hearing about this $100 price tag but it's $30 for hot & pof then $30 for eod. You can get the lw for gems if you don't want to spend cash. At most it's a few hrs of farming for enough gold to exchange for the lw. 

 

This is steam though. I'm convinced there is a player base that focus on the game of complaining on the forum. 

 

Spoken like someone who plays the game, none of this information is available to new players, stop viewing this game from a 'I played this game for 10 years and know exactly what I'm getting' to a 'What the hell is this, why is this a $100? Why can I not get a refund? What is this Living world thing? What do I need? Is this optional? Nevermind I'll play something else instead.

 

 

[Maikimaik.1974]

3 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

Again it's about the experience, allowing people to get a full experience for a small fee to get them hooked is a lot more appealing to people than a $100 pay wall. 

To be able to play WoW's newest, relevant content you have to pay around $65 ($50 for the expansion, 15$ for the subscription). This allows you to play for one single month. Just one. You have to buy the newest expansion to play any kind of meaningful content because past expansions essentially provide nothing but leveling and cosmetics. They even remove core game mechanics from past expansions.

Every single piece of content Gw2 has to offer is only $35 more expensive than a single month of WoW, and starts to get cheaper after just 3 months.

$65 for one month vs. $100 until a new expansion comes out, which will take several years.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Maikimaik.1974

[Miragen.6127]

19 minutes ago, Maikimaik.1974 said:

To be able to play WoW's newest, relevant content you have to pay around $65 ($50 for the expansion, 15$ for the subscription). This allows you to play for one single month. Just one. You have to buy the newest expansion to play any kind of meaningful content because past expansions essentially provide nothing but leveling and cosmetics. They even remove core game mechanics from past expansions.

Every single piece of content Gw2 has to offer is only $35 more expensive than a single month of WoW, and starts to get cheaper after just 3 months.

$65 for one month vs. $100 until a new expansion comes out, which will take several years.

 

Right now it costs 15$ and you get the latest expansion for free included to get complete access and no cash shop.

Guild wars 2 requires a $100 for the game deal.. meaning I can play at least 6 months of WoW.

 

Guild wars 2 is only tempting in the long run, but that's not appealing to someone who does not know if they'll even play by the end of next week, I'd rather play a game where I invest a small amount, get my money out of it and then decide if I want to commit more.

[Maikimaik.1974]

12 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

Right now it costs 15$ and you get the latest expansion for free included to get complete access and no cash shop.

This is a lie. Just a straight up lie. The latest expansion (Shadowlands) won't be free until the prepatch of the next expansion and will immediatly lose any kind of relevance outside of cosmetics.

EDIT: Sorry I was misinformed, Shadowlands is free right now until September 5th (after which it'll cost money again, this is just a two week long promotion that I don't remember them ever doing before) but it's been out for 2 years now and the new expansion will be released by the end of the year.

WoW also has a cash shop that sells mounts, pets, toys, server transfers, name, race and faction changes and allows you to buy gold with real life money.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Maikimaik.1974

[alphafert.6730]

44 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Spoken like someone who plays the game, none of this information is available to new players, stop viewing this game from a 'I played this game for 10 years and know exactly what I'm getting' to a 'What the hell is this, why is this a $100? Why can I not get a refund? What is this Living world thing? What do I need? Is this optional? Nevermind I'll play something else instead.

 

 

You aren't wrong but if you read through the steam forum topics on price it's mentioned repeatedly.  Vets explaining are written off as shills or fanboys.  

 

In game seems to be different, I've even learned stuff from chat that I didn't know or forgot. 

[Naxos.2503]

Honestly, anyone who balk at the 100 dollar pricetag on the full package should perhaps look at what other MMos do when you start from scratch and have to pay for all content : How much is it to pay for All of ESO's expansions and storyline DLCs ? Same for older MMos like Neverwinter and Everquest 2. Have people Actually taken the time to check how much it costs just to get to the same "level" of completeness ? 

Because I think it may make them rethink their bias.

Sure it could be explained better What is actually in it, through making an actual list of what's in the bundle but still... Nobody bothers to research the market nowadays.

[Miragen.6127]

25 minutes ago, Maikimaik.1974 said:

This is a lie. Just a straight up lie. The latest expansion (Shadowlands) won't be free until the prepatch of the next expansion and will immediatly lose any kind of relevance outside of cosmetics.

EDIT: Sorry I was misinformed, Shadowlands is free right now until September 5th (after which it'll cost money again, this is just a two week long promotion that I don't remember them ever doing before) but it's been out for 2 years now and the new expansion will be released by the end of the year.

WoW also has a cash shop that sells mounts, pets, toys, server transfers, name, race and faction changes and allows you to buy gold with real life money.

 

None of which are outright convenience items however, that's the benefit of a subscription model opposed to a B2P model like GW2 where you compromise with a cash shop in it's place.

 

[robertthebard.8150]

5 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

World of Warcraft has a free trial up to level 20 which includes everything aside from the last expansion to my knowledge, so that would be 7 expansions.. or you can spend $15 now and get access to everything, including the last expansion for the month.

 

ESO currently has a sale going on, $40 for the game and all chapters, I don't really know much about the game beyond that however, they do have free trials but it's not always available I guess.

 

FF14 has a free trial up to level 60 which is a ton of content and few limitations, and it includes 2 of the previous expansions, or buy the latest version of the game for $40 with 30 days of free time..

 

Guild Wars 2 gives you access to the base game, which is still the game from 2012, does not include expansions, mounts etc and costs $100 to get up to date but no subscription, however it does have a lot of cash shop items that can easily cost you a ton of money, some more optional than others.

 

Then you also have New World that also has a $40 entry point for the entire game.

 

So I would argue that Guild wars 2 offers the most outdated trial experience, the steepest buy in price, also feels more restrictive, second to the level 20 WoW trial which is very limited, by not having access to mounts and the highest cost to get up to date with current content without even acknowledging the cash shop, that is not present in other games to my knowledge. 

 

And yeah, people can keep arguing about how in the long run GW2 is cheaper by not requiring a subscription, but that requires people to commit long term to a game whilst a lot of people just play games for a few months, which makes GW2 not a good deal, and the free trial isn't captivating either.

 

At the end of the day it's not really about the actual cost either, it's not that $10-15 is unaffordable for people when these days everyone is used to monthly subscriptions.. it's all about perceived value and people feeling they get their money out of it.. and once WoW or FF14 has people hooked, they have no problem paying a monthly fee.

Then, if you want to keep playing you have to, wait for it:

 

 

 

 

 

Buy them, and in WoW's case for sure, pay a sub...  Isn't FFIX a sub game too?  So, how much is that per year?

[Freya.9075]

reading comprehension is a good thing 👀

Edited August 25, 2022 by Freya.9075

[Miragen.6127]

20 minutes ago, alphafert.6730 said:

You aren't wrong but if you read through the steam forum topics on price it's mentioned repeatedly.  Vets explaining are written off as shills or fanboys.  

 

In game seems to be different, I've even learned stuff from chat that I didn't know or forgot. 

 

I bet that 95% of potential players never engage with the forum, they go to the store page, look at what is on offer, either feel convinced or not and move on, but everyone keeps saying how good of a value it is and how expansions are different and hold their value yada yada, none of which is explained to new players and they just play something else without ever learning.

 

[Miragen.6127]

8 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Honestly, anyone who balk at the 100 dollar pricetag on the full package should perhaps look at what other MMos do when you start from scratch and have to pay for all content : How much is it to pay for All of ESO's expansions and storyline DLCs ? Same for older MMos like Neverwinter and Everquest 2. Have people Actually taken the time to check how much it costs just to get to the same "level" of completeness ? 

Because I think it may make them rethink their bias.

Sure it could be explained better What is actually in it, through making an actual list of what's in the bundle but still... Nobody bothers to research the market nowadays.

 

I mean I already did, 15$ for a complete WoW experience, 40$ for a complete FF14 experience $40 for a complete New World experience, $40 for ESO.

In the long run you'll get different numbers with subscriptions, expansions and whatnot, but for an entry level experience.

[Maikimaik.1974]

20 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Honestly, anyone who balk at the 100 dollar pricetag on the full package should perhaps look at what other MMos do when you start from scratch and have to pay for all content : How much is it to pay for All of ESO's expansions and storyline DLCs ? Same for older MMos like Neverwinter and Everquest 2. Have people Actually taken the time to check how much it costs just to get to the same "level" of completeness ? 

Because I think it may make them rethink their bias.

Sure it could be explained better What is actually in it, through making an actual list of what's in the bundle but still... Nobody bothers to research the market nowadays.

I've compared the price of every gem store item that I deem somewhat necessary with the price of a WoW in this thread. (please ignore my questionable english lol)

Gw2 is undeniably significantly cheaper than WoW.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Maikimaik.1974

[Miragen.6127]

8 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Quite ironic as gw2 gemstore is convenience as well 😛 

 

What is the irony here? GW2 is convenience opposed to WoW which is not.

[Freya.9075]

Just now, Miragen.6127 said:

 

What is the irony here? GW2 is convenience opposed to WoW which is not.

As you can see I edited it a while ago

[robertthebard.8150]

5 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

I mean I already did, 15$ for a complete WoW experience, 40$ for a complete FF14 experience $40 for a complete New World experience, $40 for ESO.

In the long run you'll get different numbers with subscriptions, expansions and whatnot, but for an entry level experience.

Really?  Because here's the information from FFXIV's page:  FFIV  It seems to say something completely different from what you're pushing here.  I wonder, if I looked up ESO and WoW in the same way if I'd more fictional "facts"?  I keep forgetting that (^&(&(^(& X...  /cry

Edited August 25, 2022 by robertthebard.8150

[Balgorath.2604]

What do you expect.  Steam is the epitome of a toxic community.   

[Maikimaik.1974]

9 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

I mean I already did, 15$ for a complete WoW experience

Could you please stop lying? $15 for a "complete" WoW experience that lasts a whopping 1 month is a temporary, 2 week long promotion.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Maikimaik.1974