Woof.8246 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said: So let's recap ... You want Anet to remove the golem, implement a non-OW DPS meter, just to ensure toxicity that doesn't exist in OW due to DPS continues to not exist. Nothing changes. I have a better idea. Anet simply doesn't do any of what you say. We still continue to not have DPS toxicity in OW AND people can still continue to use the DPS meter in OW. I get you want to love your idea because it's yours ... but it makes no sense. Or we implant an official version (not activated inOW) . When someone will be crying about toxicity in the forums , my old heart will be pleased knowing that OW in not affected 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) Just now, Woof.8246 said: Or we implant an official version (not activated inOW) . Hold on ... whether the version is official or not ... doesn't change what I said. You want Anet to remove the golem, implement a non-OW DPS meter, just to ensure toxicity that already doesn't exist in OW due to DPS continues to not exist. It won't stop people from being toxic other ways if they want to though. So basically, you want Anet to do a whole bunch of work for no value add. Somehow you convinced yourself that if it's official, people are going to behave but the premise of your argument to make it non-OW is based on people's unpredictable behaviour. You haven't thought this through. You just love your idea way too much to see the flaw. Edited October 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof.8246 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Hold on ... whether the version is official or not ... doesn't change what I said. You want Anet to remove the golem, implement a non-OW DPS meter, just to ensure toxicity that already doesn't exist in OW due to DPS continues to not exist. It won't stop people from being toxic other ways if they want to though. So basically, you want Anet to do a whole bunch of work for no value add. And i told you , i cannot trust people miss-using the tools. An official meter (not activated in OW) , will ensure me that will never happen . They can use the internal meter they have , so it not "whole bunch work" Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) Just now, Woof.8246 said: And i told you , i cannot trust people miss-using the tools. An official meter (not activated in OW) , will ensure me that will never happen . No it doesn't. Official or not, people are not prevented from being toxic to you if they choose to, regardless of what tools they do or do not have access to. Edited October 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuavePuppy.2809 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 So this has been like 4 pages of baity nonsense from some, can we stop bumping this lunacy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balgorath.2604 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) There is definitely a language barrier happening with that Woof person. Segregating your community in an MMO is absolutely the wrong way to go. For one, no one in the open world is judging your DPS so just knock it off. Secondly, there's a lot of elitists responding who keep saying, well if this person isn't pumping out such and such DPS they deserve to be kicked. And who made you people god to say how much DPS someone should or shouldn't be doing? What is the supposed "average DPS" that a player should be doing? Edited October 12, 2022 by Balgorath.2604 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Balgorath.2604 said: Secondly, there's a lot of elitists responding who keep saying, well if this person isn't pumping out such and such DPS they deserve to be kicked. Where? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof.8246 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: No it doesn't. Official or not, people are not prevented from being toxic to you if they choose to, regardless of what tools they do or do not have access to. As i said , we limit this thread's problem for ever affecting the OW (now or in the future) . If other issues will affect OW , we will fix it . One at a time Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nash.2681 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 38 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said: We will limit the toxicity in the OW if it happening or not , or will in the future . Why does this line remind me of that sci-fi movie, where people get arrested just because some fortune-telling mastermind forsee their crimes in the future? Can't remember the title, but people suggesting such dystopian stuff in 2022 really makes me worry about their state of mind... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said: As i said , we limit this thread's problem for ever affecting the OW (now or in the future) . If other issues will affect OW , we will fix it . One at a time Problem doesn't exist. No actions needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balgorath.2604 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: Where? Read the thread. There have been a few people who have already mentioned that you have to be doing 10k dps or 20k dps. What's next? 30k minimum? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Balgorath.2604 said: Read the thread. There have been a few people who have already mentioned that you have to be doing 10k dps or 20k dps. What's next? 30k minimum? But where? In a raid? I sure as heck hope my DPS in a raid is at least 10k... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balgorath.2604 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Just now, The Boz.2038 said: But where? In a raid? I sure as heck hope my DPS in a raid is at least 10k... Obviously as I've mentioned that no one cares about DPS in the open world.. My question has been, who sets what the arbitrary DPS should be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Balgorath.2604 said: Obviously as I've mentioned that no one cares about DPS in the open world.. My question has been, who sets what the arbitrary DPS should be? Squad commander. And often other squad members as well. With the caveat, that, while it is indeed arbitrary, there's still some very good reasons to expect in such content levels of dps above what is strictly necessary. For one, the run goes much smoother then. (hint: if everyone is doing exactly what is necessary and nothing more, and something goes wrong - which it always does in such cases - the run fails because you ended up those few precious seconds you lost earlier past the enrage). Edited October 12, 2022 by Astralporing.1957 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Just now, Balgorath.2604 said: Obviously as I've mentioned that no one cares about DPS in the open world.. My question has been, who sets what the arbitrary DPS should be? "arbitrary" Just like everyone can choose to play what they want, they can choose to not play with who they want. The pinnacle DPS is about 40k, and is not arbitrary. A DPS role doing less than 10k is not even autoattacking in zerker gear. It is not fair to your teammates to say you can do something, and then can't. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Balgorath.2604 said: There is definitely a language barrier happening with that Woof person. Segregating your community in an MMO is absolutely the wrong way to go. For one, no one in the open world is judging your DPS so just knock it off. Secondly, there's a lot of elitists responding who keep saying, well if this person isn't pumping out such and such DPS they deserve to be kicked. And who made you people god to say how much DPS someone should or shouldn't be doing? What is the supposed "average DPS" that a player should be doing? This has nothing to do with elitism (well telling others to kick someone might be, after all that is up to each group). The dps a player should be doing is the amount the group he is playing with is comfortable. This can be a value anywhere between the minimum needed to succeed (or even less if others are willing to pick up the slack, aka "carry") and the amount a group demands to maybe speed up a fight significantly. Since this is up to each group and group of players to decide, there is no "right" amount of dps. There are certain values though which can be extrapolated or recommended. Being above those values will cause less friction and being below might increase friction with other players. That's neither elitist nor toxic. It simply is a reality that if a specific performance is required, that performance has to come from somewhere. Dps meters are tools which attribute performance to different players thus allowing to remove any guesswork which might be involved. They are neither the cause of the disparity in player performance nor are they to be blamed for it. Edited October 12, 2022 by Cyninja.2954 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balgorath.2604 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said: "arbitrary" Just like everyone can choose to play what they want, they can choose to not play with who they want. The pinnacle DPS is about 40k, and is not arbitrary. A DPS role doing less than 10k is not even autoattacking in zerker gear. It is not fair to your teammates to say you can do something, and then can't. Yes, arbitrary. And who made 40k the pinnacle? The players or Anet? Obviously once you've hit maxed everything in gear, items trinkets, buffs ect, a player should be doing whatever DPS and obviously if a person is just auto attacking they aren't producing. It takes skills and skill to "obviously" get higher DPS. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: This has nothing to do with elitism (well telling others to kick someone might be, after all that is up to each group). The dps a player should be doing is the amount the group he is playing with is comfortable. This can be a value anywhere between the minimum needed to succeed (or even less if others are willing to pick up the slack, aka "carry") and the amount a group demands to maybe speed up a fight significantly. Since this is up to each group and group of players to decide, there is no "right" amount of dps. There are certain values though which can be extrapolated or recommended. Being above those values will cause less friction and being below might increase friction with other players. That's neither elitist nor toxic. It simply is a reality that if a specific performance is required, that performance has to come from somewhere. Dps meters are tools which attribute performance to different players thus allowing to remove any guesswork which might be involved. They are neither the cause of the disparity in player performance nor are they to be blamed for it. This. The dps meters are not an issue and never were. They are just something some people like to blame. In reality however they are no more responsible for anything than the weatherman is responsible for the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balgorath.2604 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: This has nothing to do with elitism (well telling others to kick someone might be, after all that is up to each group). The dps a player should be doing is the amount the group he is playing with is comfortable. This can be a value anywhere between the minimum needed to succeed (or even less if others are willing to pick up the slack, aka "carry") and the amount a group demands to maybe speed up a fight significantly. Since this is up to each group and group of players to decide, there is no "right" amount of dps. There are certain values though which can be extrapolated or recommended. Being above those values will cause less friction and being below might increase friction with other players. That's neither elitist nor toxic. It simply is a reality that if a specific performance is required, that performance has to come from somewhere. Dps meters are tools which attribute performance to different players thus allowing to remove any guesswork which might be involved. They are neither the cause of the disparity in player performance nor are they to be blamed for it. I'm talking about groups where players are obviously capable of doing DPS but the group decides it has to be at a higher threshold which is more than what is needed and still kick players. That is toxic and elitist behavior. To be clear, earlier in this thread I've stated that DPS meters help people tune their rotations and builds. However, DPS meters also bring out the absolute toxicity in people and groups where players make an arbitrary minimum DPS you have to bring to the group. It's also toxic of someone to expect to be carried Edited October 12, 2022 by Balgorath.2604 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAA.9653 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Some classes better than others, whether you have damage/boon meters or not. The only difference is that ARC and other tools allows us to quantify the difference. But most raiders/fractals players don't care about benchmarks as long as you are decent and know mechanics. When I am commanding, I don't call anybody out for low DPS/not performing role except when they need to be called out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Moderator.3419 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Hi everyone, I'm locking this thread as it has devolved into non-productive argument. Regards. 2 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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