How About Some Love For ArenaNet??

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

[Neutra.6857]

One thing I really like about Arenanet when it comes to their store. Except for being the front page for the trading post they really don't push the store all that much. I can play the game without once thinking about the store if I really wanted to. I am not constantly having that store shoved in my face. Much of the time, unless I want something, I forget about the store. So yeah Arenaent, cudos to not making the store intrusive on my gameplay.

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Users want polished and entertaining games, they want content, but they want it free.

Users pay polished and entertaining games. This is why anet had to add the system that makes people spend way more than they would.

Compared to other games which are buy to play or free to play, GW2 monetisation is a blessing.

So what you are saying is: the game is of so high quality that arenanet was not forced to resort to any pay to win practices so far and was able to live purely off of optional cosmetic content?

I agree.

In gw2 cash shop cosmetics are not optional. There is no balance for them to be optional.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

[Feanor.2358]

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Users want polished and entertaining games, they want content, but they want it free.

Users pay polished and entertaining games. This is why anet had to add the system that makes people spend way more than they would.

Compared to other games which are buy to play or free to play, GW2 monetisation is a blessing.

So what you are saying is: the game is of so high quality that arenanet was not forced to resort to any pay to win practices so far and was able to live purely off of optional cosmetic content?

I agree.

In gw2 cash shop cosmetics are not optional. There is no balance for them to be optional.

I've yet to see a single LFG saying "starbound griffon or kick".

[MMAI.5892]

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:

@RoChan.1926 said:Just because EA is worse, doesn't suddenly make Anet a better company. :/

They have things that they can be praised for but since you are trying to make a comparison for EA's latest practices, I think "Showing Anet" love for not putting as many hairs in your soup as EA did doesn't mean there aren't hairs in the soup.

So, OP, when you or any one else goes "At least they aren't as bad as EA!" Remember, the lesser of two evils doesn't mean someone is suddenly a saint.

Crikey, perhaps I should follow this post up with a poll "did you read the Op?" but it would only require one answer. C'mon folks, don't make me start playing the devil's advocate. Once again I don't agree with loot boxes, but effectively saying that we should be happy with the "lesser of two evils" is neither naive nor hypocritical. It's obvious ANet care about their game,

that

publisher... Not so much. Theirs was a response showcasing a total disregard for anything other than making money off of whale oil, ANet's was an admission that they could have designed this better. Clearly, expecting ANet to change how they monetize their mounts in the future is reasonable.

I don't care if Anet cares about their game or not. It's a game and customers will either like or they won't. Does it help if those developing it are passionate about their work? Sure. But I've worked with a lot of business owners who were passionate and good at what they do but were complete crap at managing the rest of their business and it eventually tanked for a variety of reasons ranging from mismanagement to much worse. The results aren't much different at the end of the day regardless of passion.

The thing is, for a lot of people, this isn't the only questionable thing that Anet has done, even recently, and the response from Mike O'Brien still leaves cause that Anet has not abandoned this or similar models in the future. Change, in this case, could be 'no more loot boxes' or it could be 'we're going to keep trying to find the point where you'll buy them and shut up about it'. And honestly, these types of purchasing models are nothing more than a cash grab. There's no other reason to make a loot box unless the objective is to get people to spend pretty heavily in excess of what they normally would. To me, that isn't passion. It certainly isn't 'confidence' in the artists' work. Nor am I going to speculate about Anet's potential need to resort to such mechanics in order to 'save' the game.

I'm more than willing to give Anet my money in exchange for the game. I don't care that part of that cost is factored into gem store items; that's fine. I do care when monetization methods turn from upfront cost/benefit to tactics that rely on impulse buying and any number of little psychological tricks to snag money way in excess, and no, I won't thank Anet on the whole for doing it and then telling me they were doing it for my benefit.

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Users want polished and entertaining games, they want content, but they want it free.

Users pay polished and entertaining games. This is why anet had to add the system that makes people spend way more than they would.

Compared to other games which are buy to play or free to play, GW2 monetisation is a blessing.

So what you are saying is: the game is of so high quality that arenanet was not forced to resort to any pay to win practices so far and was able to live purely off of optional cosmetic content?

I agree.

In gw2 cash shop cosmetics are not optional. There is no balance for them to be optional.

I've yet to see a single LFG saying "starbound griffon or kick".

I've yet to see a significant amount of high quality armors, weapons, mounts, gliders, and outfits added to the "horizontal progression" game.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I say let anet keep the rng loot boxes. And just charge $15 per unique mount skin. By $15 I mean use real life monies and remove the gold to gem option on them. Keep the gold to gem option for only rng mount boxes. This will ensure that anet does not go under and you get NO content. I too was angry about it but the more I think about it this is probably one of the best F2P out there, so show your support and throw a few bucks there way.

[Cyninja.2954]

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Users want polished and entertaining games, they want content, but they want it free.

Users pay polished and entertaining games. This is why anet had to add the system that makes people spend way more than they would.

Compared to other games which are buy to play or free to play, GW2 monetisation is a blessing.

So what you are saying is: the game is of so high quality that arenanet was not forced to resort to any pay to win practices so far and was able to live purely off of optional cosmetic content?

I agree.

In gw2 cash shop cosmetics are not optional. There is no balance for them to be optional.

I've yet to see a single LFG saying "starbound griffon or kick".

I've yet to see a significant amount of high quality armors, weapons, mounts, gliders, and outfits added to the "horizontal progression" game.

Please read up what optional means.

In your case I'm really wondering why you are even on the forums. It's obvious you loath the game and have for a very long time, just move on.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

The only thing you can be certain about is, if we stop funding them, the game dies. So if you want to keep playing it, you should keep paying, even though you can't know how much of it goes to ANet.

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Users want polished and entertaining games, they want content, but they want it free.

Users pay polished and entertaining games. This is why anet had to add the system that makes people spend way more than they would.

Compared to other games which are buy to play or free to play, GW2 monetisation is a blessing.

So what you are saying is: the game is of so high quality that arenanet was not forced to resort to any pay to win practices so far and was able to live purely off of optional cosmetic content?

I agree.

In gw2 cash shop cosmetics are not optional. There is no balance for them to be optional.

I've yet to see a single LFG saying "starbound griffon or kick".

I've yet to see a significant amount of high quality armors, weapons, mounts, gliders, and outfits added to the "horizontal progression" game.

Please stop trolling.

[RoChan.1926]

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:

@RoChan.1926 said:Just because EA is worse, doesn't suddenly make Anet a better company. :/

They have things that they can be praised for but since you are trying to make a comparison for EA's latest practices, I think "Showing Anet" love for not putting as many hairs in your soup as EA did doesn't mean there aren't hairs in the soup.

So, OP, when you or any one else goes "At least they aren't as bad as EA!" Remember, the lesser of two evils doesn't mean someone is suddenly a saint.

Crikey, perhaps I should follow this post up with a poll "did you read the Op?" but it would only require one answer. C'mon folks, don't make me start playing the devil's advocate. Once again I don't agree with loot boxes, but effectively saying that we should be happy with the "lesser of two evils" is neither naive nor hypocritical. It's obvious ANet care about their game,

that

publisher... Not so much. Theirs was a response showcasing a total disregard for anything other than making money off of whale oil, ANet's was an admission that they could have designed this better. Clearly, expecting ANet to change how they monetize their mounts in the future is reasonable.

Did you read my response? I ask because you created a thread stating, in summary, "At least GW2 isn't as bad as EA's game!" That whataboutism is what I am directly stating against. Just because there is something worse doesn't mean that the current topic is better. It's a tactic used, similar to strawmen, to discredit any criticism.

Your OP was and is totally unnecessary. Next time you want to show Anet some love and thanks just make a thread about that.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

Simple, the better a game does financially, the more freedom the developer has to do things the way they want to.

Look at Activision and Blizzard. Blizzard receives a very different treatment than any other developer under Activision. That said, Activision is not far behind EA in terms of how they monetize their games, except for the Blizzard titles.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

The only thing you can be certain about is, if we stop funding them, the game dies. So if you want to keep playing it, you should keep paying, even though you can't know how much of it goes to ANet.

So your logic is:a) financial report is better than expected - it's bad anyway because ncsoft must steal their moneh - game diesb) we stop paying - game dies

I have a difficulty in understanding why should I care about any of this? Anet is a bussiness. If they don't get money, they should just close the bussiness. Since they are still around, they most likely get the money, which means there is no reason to look panic. Also, it's their job to look for money, not ours. We are customers, not their fundraisers. If they create a product worth the money, people will pay for it. Simple.

Bussiness is cynical. They don't care about you or me as people, they cafe about our wallets. There is no reason to offer them anything besides our money.

[Zin Dau.1749]

Are we people really falling for the Stockholm syndrome now? Are we supposed to thank Anet for graciously devising a system that intentionally cheats customers money?

Under the guise of making money. So do thieves also need to make money. So do scam artists, embezzlers, greedy businessmen, corrupted politicians. They all gotta make a living too. So we should be grateful they didn't steal 'that much' from us. Not like those other thieves who steal your money and your girlfriend.Just be grateful Anet--while shady--is not as despicable.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

The only thing you can be certain about is, if we stop funding them, the game dies. So if you want to keep playing it, you should keep paying, even though you can't know how much of it goes to ANet.

So your logic is:a) financial report is better than expected - it's bad anyway because ncsoft must steal their moneh - game diesb) we stop paying - game dies

I have a difficulty in understanding why should I care about any of this? Anet is a bussiness. If they don't get money, they should just close the bussiness. Since they are still around, they most likely get the money, which means there is no reason to look panic. Also, it's their job to look for money, not ours. We are customers, not their fundraisers. If they create a product worth the money, people will pay for it. Simple.

Bussiness is cynical. They don't care about you or me as people, they cafe about our wallets. There is no reason to offer them anything besides our money.

Again, people will only pay if they have no other options. And they will complain doing it. And they will act as if they somehow deserve to pay less. No, they don't. Like I've said already, gaming is too cheap. It was cheap historically and people grew accustomed to this, began to think it's OK for it to be cheap. What you're seeing now is just the equalization of the market. And it is driven in no small part by the way of thinking you're displaying. Attitude like that is widely spread and it doesn't leave developers much choice. Gamedev becomes more and more a cold-blooded business because you are making it so. With your own choice to perceive it like one. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy which you created yourselves.

[Carighan.6758]

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys seen the economy in that game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

That it "could be worse" is rarely a valid reason to dismiss criticism.

Yes, it could be worse. It could also be a whole lot better!

@Renim.6921 said:I would much rather have a subscription fee at this point. The game is remaining uninstalled and no more money spent until they remove the loot boxes and make them a direct purchase.

So very much this. I have played four MMORPGs extensively (EQ1 since RoK, DAoC since launch, WoW since launch, GW2 since launch), and frankly, comparing those, subscriptions just seem to work... better. Stable income without having to butcher your game's development to sell it piece by piece probably helps a lot.

@Cyninja.2954 said:Don't like it? Start asking for a subscription fee or buy more gems so the accounting department at arenanet does not have to look for new ways how to squeez money from players. People wanted a cheaper expansion price with PoF, there done. Now live with some of the consequences.

This is a weird non-argument. You're basically inverting "vote with your wallet", in a "to avoid it being worse in the future"-way. But... why not actually vote with your wallet, and go play a MMORPG which isn't shackled to this gem store nonsense? Because as you say, subscription fees are a thing in other MMOs. And those provide stable non-conditional income for the devs so they can work on keeping the game engaging (therefor ensuring the subscription income!) instead of making the gem store as enticing as possible.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

The only thing you can be certain about is, if we stop funding them, the game dies. So if you want to keep playing it, you should keep paying, even though you can't know how much of it goes to ANet.

So your logic is:a) financial report is better than expected - it's bad anyway because ncsoft must steal their moneh - game diesb) we stop paying - game dies

I have a difficulty in understanding why should I care about any of this? Anet is a bussiness. If they don't get money, they should just close the bussiness. Since they are still around, they most likely get the money, which means there is no reason to look panic. Also, it's their job to look for money, not ours. We are customers, not their fundraisers. If they create a product worth the money, people will pay for it. Simple.

Bussiness is cynical. They don't care about you or me as people, they cafe about our wallets. There is no reason to offer them anything besides our money.

Again, people will only pay if they have no other options. And they will complain doing it. And they will act as if they somehow

deserve

to pay less. No, they don't. Like I've said already, gaming is too cheap. It was cheap historically and people grew accustomed to this, began to think it's OK for it to be cheap. What you're seeing now is just the equalization of the market. And it is driven in no small part by the way of thinking you're displaying. Attitude like that is widely spread and it doesn't leave developers much choice. Gamedev becomes more and more a cold-blooded business because

you

are making it so. With your own choice to perceive it like one. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy which you created yourselves.

Thank god I'm not paying for anything but expansion boxes since HoT.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

The only thing you can be certain about is, if we stop funding them, the game dies. So if you want to keep playing it, you should keep paying, even though you can't know how much of it goes to ANet.

So your logic is:a) financial report is better than expected - it's bad anyway because ncsoft must steal their moneh - game diesb) we stop paying - game dies

I have a difficulty in understanding why should I care about any of this? Anet is a bussiness. If they don't get money, they should just close the bussiness. Since they are still around, they most likely get the money, which means there is no reason to look panic. Also, it's their job to look for money, not ours. We are customers, not their fundraisers. If they create a product worth the money, people will pay for it. Simple.

Bussiness is cynical. They don't care about you or me as people, they cafe about our wallets. There is no reason to offer them anything besides our money.

Again, people will only pay if they have no other options. And they will complain doing it. And they will act as if they somehow

deserve

to pay less. No, they don't. Like I've said already, gaming is too cheap. It was cheap historically and people grew accustomed to this, began to think it's OK for it to be cheap. What you're seeing now is just the equalization of the market. And it is driven in no small part by the way of thinking you're displaying. Attitude like that is widely spread and it doesn't leave developers much choice. Gamedev becomes more and more a cold-blooded business because

you

are making it so. With your own choice to perceive it like one. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy which you created yourselves.

Thank god I'm not paying for anything but expansion boxes since HoT.

Thank god other people pay your share of developement and upkeep costs so the game which you hopefully enjoy keeps running.

[Djinn.9245]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Djinn.9245 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:The comparisons some people make, the pure entitlement that seeps out of some comments. Guess what, things are going to get even worse down the road.

Why? Because as GW2 grows older and the playerbase declines and revenue dries up, more drastic methods of monetisation will be required to keep the game working with this kind of monetisation method (no pay to win, cosmetics mostly from gem store, no subscription fee, living world updates inbetween expansions).

Was the mount addition not well received? Sure, it could have been handled better. I personally was/am more concerned with what this says about the state of the monetisation which arenanet are willing to try more than the:"Waaaaah, I can't get the skins I want."

You are absolutely correct - this type of scheme should signal the beginning of a kind of desperation that a company needs to dupe their customers out of more money than the customer would willingly pay. I wonder if Anet means to send this message that GW2 is going down the tubes? But whether a company is doing poorly or not, there is still no excuse to treat your customers poorly.

Poorly? Dupe?

The mount pricing and implementation model was very clear on how it works. At no point should there have been any confusion to a person with basic linguistic skills to understand how it works. So there is your "dupe" out the window, here read up on what to dupe actually means:

dupe - verb [ T ] uk ​ /dʒuːp/ us ​ /duːp/​to deceive someone, usually by making that person do something that they did not intend to do:

• https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dupe

Words have meanings, use them properly and don't hyperbole.

And perhaps you should read some of the articles on gamble boxes so that you can understand how they work. In addition, these gamble boxes are very effective at what they do which is why Anet wanted to add yet another one to the store.

As far as poorly, it's OPTIONAL COSMETIC CONTENT which in no way affects you as a customer or player

By treating customers poorly, I was again talking about using gamble boxes.

[Djinn.9245]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Additionally, it is utterly arrogant to say what the devs should

strive

to do. Do you have any idea what it is like to be passionate about a game in development, to do your best about it, to end up with a good game that the users love but that barely pays for its development? Let me say that as a developer, I'm quite disillusioned about the playerbase. Users want polished and entertaining games, they want content, but they want it free. Sorry, you can't have that. Gamedev is a business, not a charity.

The vast majority of people on the mount threads want to give Anet money for mount skins. They just want to give their money for particular skins they choose instead of throwing it down a toilet for a gamble. That isn't wanting stuff for free.

The sad thing is, if Anet is truly hurting for money here we all are practically begging to give them money for skins and the only actual CHOICE we have is ONE SINGLE 2000 gem jackal skin. Anet has put themselves in this position.

[Djinn.9245]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:I say let anet keep the rng loot boxes. And just charge $15 per unique mount skin. By $15 I mean use real life monies and remove the gold to gem option on them. Keep the gold to gem option for only rng mount boxes. This will ensure that anet does not go under and you get NO content. I too was angry about it but the more I think about it this is probably one of the best F2P out there, so show your support and throw a few bucks there way.

$15 per skin, no way. I want skins on a similar price point to gliders or outfits. If Anet thought that a few people on the forums saying they would pay huge amounts for mounts meant that all of us would, that was selective reading on their part.

[Djinn.9245]

@"Zin Dau.1749" said:Are we people really falling for the Stockholm syndrome now? Are we supposed to thank Anet for graciously devising a system that intentionally cheats customers money?

Under the guise of making money. So do thieves also need to make money. So do scam artists, embezzlers, greedy businessmen, corrupted politicians. They all gotta make a living too. So we should be grateful they didn't steal 'that much' from us. Not like those other thieves who steal your money and your girlfriend.Just be grateful Anet--while shady--is not as despicable.

Yes, some people are actually in that boat. They are saying "poor Anet! They would only do this to us if they were really hurting financially so we have to give them money!"

It really is remarkable.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Djinn.9245 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Djinn.9245 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:The comparisons some people make, the pure entitlement that seeps out of some comments. Guess what, things are going to get even worse down the road.

Why? Because as GW2 grows older and the playerbase declines and revenue dries up, more drastic methods of monetisation will be required to keep the game working with this kind of monetisation method (no pay to win, cosmetics mostly from gem store, no subscription fee, living world updates inbetween expansions).

Was the mount addition not well received? Sure, it could have been handled better. I personally was/am more concerned with what this says about the state of the monetisation which arenanet are willing to try more than the:"Waaaaah, I can't get the skins I want."

You are absolutely correct - this type of scheme should signal the beginning of a kind of desperation that a company needs to dupe their customers out of more money than the customer would willingly pay. I wonder if Anet means to send this message that GW2 is going down the tubes? But whether a company is doing poorly or not, there is still no excuse to treat your customers poorly.

Poorly? Dupe?

The mount pricing and implementation model was very clear on how it works. At no point should there have been any confusion to a person with basic linguistic skills to understand how it works. So there is your "dupe" out the window, here read up on what to dupe actually means:

dupe - verb [ T ] uk ​ /dʒuːp/ us ​ /duːp/​to deceive someone, usually by making that person do something that they did not intend to do:

• https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dupe

Words have meanings, use them properly and don't hyperbole.

And perhaps you should read some of the articles on gamble boxes so that you can understand how they work. In addition, these gamble boxes are very effective at what they do which is why Anet wanted to add yet another one to the store.

As far as poorly, it's OPTIONAL COSMETIC CONTENT which in no way affects you as a customer or player

By treating customers poorly, I was again talking about using gamble boxes.

Except that gamble boxes are a far different concept than a limited result based equal value gamble.

Lootboxes work by offering a huge amount of useless or low value content (both design and impact wise) while having some few high value items (like black lion keys) at constant similar odds. Thus resulting in potentially very high investments with no guaranteed return.

The mount gamble was a fixed as far as possible investment, the attainable rewards were all equal (personal preferences for skins aside from a development and design perspective as well as impact) and the chance to receive a desired result was affected by the amount of times played by removing already owned skins as win results.

This system, while having a similar component, is far and away way different from lootboxes, especially those in EA games (see SW Battlefront 2).

[Djinn.9245]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

How do you know that? You don't have information about their revenues, nor you have information about their expenses. You're just guessing and drawing conclusions from it.

Read last NCsoft financial report. And by read I mean read, not just look at the chart.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Recent events on Reddit regarding a certain other publisher certainly do put things in perspective, don't they? Have you guys

seen

the economy in

that

game? Full AAA price, with loot boxes on top that literally are pay to win. A bajillion different currencies and unlocks and crafting and cards and locked characters, all screaming at you to pay money to get passed the grind.

This really puts ArenaNet's "Here's 30 mounts have at it!" attitude into perspective. I'm not saying I agree with loot boxes in

any

form, but I sure am glad I threw my hat in with Gaille and her Krew, instead of those unbelievable kitten hats at that

other

publisher.

So, how about some love for our chums at ArenaNet? Not everything they do is always super popular, but for goodness sake, they are at least still human!

I'm just going to throw one more thing about the 30 mount skins. You know, as food for thought.> @Zakka.2153 said:

How about no, and we stop pretending that these types of business practices are ok. Developers and Companies should strive to make their service excellent not nickel and dime their consumers any given chance.

See, this kind of attitude is precisely why developers are forced into exploring various monetization methods.

Forced? Anet is doing better than expected financially. This means that new mount license is motivated only by greed.

People keep saying this. But the better than expected is not Anet or NcSoft's expecations only a stock company that makes predictions. It did better than that cmpany expected. No one here knows how much profit the game makes or doesn't make.

It means they got more money than they planned so they have more money to cover expenses and grow. And anet grew since HoT. They do not starve. They have money.

It means nothing of the sort. Good financial results for NCSoft do not mean a thing about ANet. You don't know their internal contracts and relationships. ANet might not be seeing a penny out of the good financial results. Or they might be getting funding even if their products are losing money. You don't know how much they are getting, you don't know how much they are burning on development costs, and you don't know how much they are spending on marketing. Again, you're taking wild guesses and drawing conclusions based on them.

If I am to follow your logic, there is no reason we should in any way pay anet more - if you assume only ncsoft benefits from it, we should stop funding them instantly.

The only thing you can be certain about is, if we stop funding them, the game dies. So if you want to keep playing it, you should keep paying, even though you can't know how much of it goes to ANet.

So your logic is:a) financial report is better than expected - it's bad anyway because ncsoft must steal their moneh - game diesb) we stop paying - game dies

I have a difficulty in understanding why should I care about any of this? Anet is a bussiness. If they don't get money, they should just close the bussiness. Since they are still around, they most likely get the money, which means there is no reason to look panic. Also, it's their job to look for money, not ours. We are customers, not their fundraisers. If they create a product worth the money, people will pay for it. Simple.

Bussiness is cynical. They don't care about you or me as people, they cafe about our wallets. There is no reason to offer them anything besides our money.

Again, people will only pay if they have no other options. And they will complain doing it. And they will act as if they somehow

deserve

to pay less.

Perhaps SOME people are like that, but not all. I'm sure you don't put yourself in that category, and I have gladly purchased many gems to get many ITEMS THAT I CHOOSE from the gemstore. This is the first real criticism I've had about the gemstore, but unfortunately it is a major issue with me.