Soulbeast is now more complex than Untamed

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Can tell CmC is at the helm with this one 😂.

Untamed you have two pets for nine skills (3 each pet for ranger unleash, then 3 total for pet unleash for 9).  You also have a single swap timer for pet.

Soulbeast you have two pets for eight skills (1 each pet unmerged, then 3 each pet merged).  What makes it far more complex is you have a merge timer, and the pet swap timers are independent between merging and unmerging. 

This is also assuming you set no pet skills to auto--if you do Untamed becomes even less complex as you almost never want to set the F2 to auto and that's the only one you have on Soulbeast.

Additionally, in terms of traits, you now have both on-swap and on-merge traits to worry about for Soulbeast, while only on-swap traits for Untamed.

Like, if you use Smokescale and a Hyena with just Axe/Wh you could: Start on Hyena and engage with axe to get some might, merge to trigger Fresh Reinforcement, Prelude Lash => Axe 5, Brutal Charge (for KD), Crippling Leap (additional damage or to kite out), Merge Swap, Smoke Assault (evade or to kite back in), Takedown (for KD), Winter Bite, Unmerge, Smoke Cloud, WH Blast for Stealth.....

I personally love it, and hope it sticks only due to the sheer amount of 'piano playing' you need now to be a high level Soulbeast.  Above is just a basic sequence too...you have way more options if you also utilize the other weapon 🙃.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

This is also assuming you set no pet skills to auto--if you do Untamed becomes even less complex as you almost never want to set the F2 to auto and that's the only one you have on Soulbeast.

Additionally, in terms of traits, you now have both on-swap and on-merge traits to worry about for Soulbeast, while only on-swap traits for Untamed.

Honestly it is quite refreshing since I was just using the same stale build in WvW for a while and now have something else to do while I wait 10 seconds for the next barrage on my Longbow Soulbeast

[Svarty.8019]

The danger here is that unskilled players have no go-to class.

[kaan.5074]

Merge swap is useless on Pve damage builds. SLB beast skills have shared cooldown on merge swap making the trait effective with different pet archetypes only. But in current meta of SLB you absolutely need to stay in correct pet type to maintain correct stat bonuses. Additional 3 mediacore skills wont compensate that stat loss.

 

In terms of PvP congrats we finally have a way to catch up the current mobility meta. With merge swap we have one more mobility skill which when combined is just on par with other mobility based classes. 

[Beddo.1907]

Ranger players when they get one more button to press.

[Skada.1362]

1 hour ago, Svarty.8019 said:

The danger here is that unskilled players have no go-to class.

Unskilled players can play Willbender

[Rysdude.3824]

3 hours ago, Skada.1362 said:

Unskilled players can play Willbender

I thought it was Mechanist and Harbinger?

Anyhow, I love the new mechanic. I feel like it should have been baseline from the start. The variety makes building fun and more unique than just the standard soulbeast pew pew. Good to be home again ❤️

[Svarty.8019]

1 hour ago, Rysdude.3824 said:

I thought it was Mechanist and Harbinger?

Anyhow, I love the new mechanic. I feel like it should have been baseline from the start. The variety makes building fun and more unique than just the standard soulbeast pew pew. Good to be home again ❤️

Truth is, all of the classes are too difficult. 

[thaniretouni.4762]

19 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

The danger here is that unskilled players have no go-to class.

There is always mechanist and dragonhunter.

[anduriell.6280]

Ofc the usuals asking for nerfs… 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

How is the slb change making the class more complex to use? It's one more button and allows u to switch ao another animal ur already familiar with which brings skills ur already familiar with bound to the same 3 keys ur already using. This change did very little in the way of making slb more complex to play, what it did do though is make soulbeast far less clunky to use while opening up build diversity. Great change imo, tho wish was baseline.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

How is the slb change making the class more complex to use? It's one more button and allows u to switch ao another animal ur already familiar with which brings skills ur already familiar with bound to the same 3 keys ur already using. This change did very little in the way of making slb more complex to play, what it did do though is make soulbeast far less clunky to use while opening up build diversity. Great change imo, tho wish was baseline.

This logic would literally also apply to Untamed and you have myriad complaints about the complexity.

If you think managing three different timers and four different animal states (two merge, two unmerge) didn't add complexity from a single merge / unmerge timer and two animal states then not sure what else to discuss.

It's also why I hope this change sticks as it'll be too high ceiling and the vast majority of the playerbase will have zero idea how to use it and keep playing Sic Em' sniper.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

This logic would literally also apply to Untamed and you have myriad complaints about the complexity.

If you think managing three different timers and four different animal states (two merge, two unmerge) didn't add complexity from a single merge / unmerge timer and two animal states then not sure what else to discuss.

It's also why I hope this change sticks as it'll be too high ceiling and the vast majority of the playerbase will have zero idea how to use it and keep playing Sic Em' sniper.  

I donno if I can agree that it the same situation as untamed. When I first unlocked untamed I had to bind a couple more keys as well as manage unleashed and leashed pet status which is 6 skills per pet x2 pets.....so 12 skills not to mention the rangers unleashed and leashed status on top. That's a lot of management to keep with including swapping pets and their cds as well, especially if u are trying to be very proficient with the spec. This all said I'm not complaining about either as I think complexity is great as long as it's not crazy and I don't think untamed is to crazy, just high skill cap. Imo though soulbeast is definitely not as complex as untamed even with this amazing new change to it. I think anet is horrendous at balancing but this change I will say was a very good one. Again should be baseline tho.

[kaan.5074]

Untamed's stupidity stems from the fact that it does not have timer on its mechanics unlike Soulbeast. Unleashed has no cooldown, Fervent Force has no cooldown making this spec hell to use. Also unlike Soulbeast, Untamed override some skills not just add them.

 

Stop pretending this is a validated high skill ceiling spec. It's broken. It's only saving grace is fervent force and that trait is straight up kitten mechanicwise. There are far lesser effective traits in the game that have a cooldwn preventing abuse. 

 

Also they are probably reworking it. Thats is higly why there is no untamed change in recent oct patch. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, kaan.5074 said:

Untamed's stupidity stems from the fact that it does not have timer on its mechanics unlike Soulbeast. Unleashed has no cooldown, Fervent Force has no cooldown making this spec hell to use. Also unlike Soulbeast, Untamed override some skills not just add them.

 

Stop pretending this is a validated high skill ceiling spec. It's broken. It's only saving grace is fervent force and that trait is straight up kitten mechanicwise. There are far lesser effective traits in the game that have a cooldwn preventing abuse. 

 

Also they are probably reworking it. Thats is higly why there is no untamed change in recent oct patch. 

That's great, but as a counter-example, you don't use Fervent Force in competitive. 

Better to run Ferocious Symbiosis to get the speed / damage bonus then to try and wait for CDs, as most ranger skills are low value / non-burst.  The ones that are burst, like Maul, often have their own shortcut anyway (Hilt Bash reducing Maul CD with no investment).  

Also, when a spec has no changes, it's usually because Anet thinks it's in a good place.  A full rework would also be very costly and not really necessary since most competent players think the class is fine, or even OP in ways that are not FF (Unnatural Traversal => Maul comes to mind as a common complaint).  

Edited October 7, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[anduriell.6280]

14 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 or even OP in ways that are not FF (Unnatural Traversal => Maul comes to mind as a common complaint).  

That is broken and it will be nerfed very soon or at least it should.

If it hasn't is because Anet doesn't know how without completely deleting the whole class . Not because they think the spec is in a good place, otherwise you would get that feedback from them in the balance patches. 

UnWanted is not even "high ceiling". It's just a traitline which promotes Macros abuse. Nothing more. 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

43 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

That is broken and it will be nerfed very soon or at least it should.

If it hasn't is because Anet doesn't know how without completely deleting the whole class . Not because they think the spec is in a good place, otherwise you would get that feedback from them in the balance patches. 

UnWanted is not even "high ceiling". It's just a traitline which promotes Macros abuse. Nothing more. 

 

 

I think you've been around long enough to know that if something isn't mentioned in a balance patch then Anet deems it currently without issue.  

Especially when doing things like adding more mobility to an already mobile class in Soulbeast--don't think they believe one teleport is OP when there's no disengage portion from it.  

[Mell.4873]

22 hours ago, kaan.5074 said:

Untamed's stupidity stems from the fact that it does not have timer on its mechanics unlike Soulbeast. Unleashed has no cooldown, Fervent Force has no cooldown making this spec hell to use. Also unlike Soulbeast, Untamed override some skills not just add them.

 

Stop pretending this is a validated high skill ceiling spec. It's broken. It's only saving grace is fervent force and that trait is straight up kitten mechanicwise. There are far lesser effective traits in the game that have a cooldwn preventing abuse. 

 

Also they are probably reworking it. Thats is higly why there is no untamed change in recent oct patch. 

Untamed without Fervent Force is still valuable but for a different reason. In PvP it is very tanky for a Ranger and still retains most of its damage unlike Druid.

I personally sometimes have match ups were I can't die since I'm healing far faster than they are doing damage. While other times I'm able to line of sight other players then I go in on pet Unleash projectile block unlike with Soulbeast where you had to run away. 

[Project exa.3204]

This is just the return to form for Soulbeast. Being able to swap pets was a major part of why things Soulbeast was so strong like 2+ years ago. At its core it's still the same Soulbeast....you merge to get the stats / abilities you want---except now you can carry two completely different pets again and change how your build works mid combat. 

-Eros of Ascalon