The real reason people spam auto-attack

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

35 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Raids have been done in green gear so how is it top preformance needed again?

You need to understand that their logic is "I can't play like I'm doing an easy OW meta = it needs top performance"

[Linken.6345]

50 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You need to understand that their logic is "I can't play like I'm doing an easy OW meta = it needs top performance"

Oh I see it need top preformance from them personaly and it is still not enough since their top is 10% of the top % of players got it.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Svarty.8019]

The question to ask yourself is, "why are there so many easy-play videos and why do they get so many views?"

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

18 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Oh I see it need top preformance from them personaly and it is still not enough since their top is 10% of the top % of players got it.

And there's exactly nothing between Bobby's auto attack's and SC's benchmarks, eh?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I know that this is a troll thread, but there is something I need to answer:

21 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

People solo fractal t4 and cms.

Raids have been done in green gear so how is it top preformance needed again?

Because it is demanded by the other people necessary to complete the content.  

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Because it is demanded by the other people necessary to complete the content.  

Which still doesn't make it "required to complete the content", but instead at most maybe "required to get into some limited groups".

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Which still doesn't make it "required to complete the content", but instead at most maybe "required to get into some limited groups".

No.  It means it is required.  

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

No.  It means it is required.  

Except it absolutely isn't.

[Linken.6345]

49 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

No.  It means it is required.  

Can you show me a lfg were 4 people demand 1 player solo them through the content?

[Atenhara.2947]

What I wish someone could explain but everyone dances around it. What is auto attack exactly? Is it the 1 key spinning and when it stops, auto attack is over? People say that you should not interrupt auto attack, so you just wait until some visual cue tells you that auto attack is over and you can hit another skill? I will never be able to understand a 20 step rotation and I get that it means I will never raid, do cm strikes etc and I am fine with it.

But the 30k dps with 4 skills video is a fun watch but is not true really. I used the mechanist one, all the same gear, food, was close on the jewelry and I could barely get 12k dps. In open world pve I dropped down to 4-6k. Personally I feel that these videos are just someone showing off what they can do on the dummy but put them out playing and they fail.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

16 minutes ago, Atenhara.2947 said:

What I wish someone could explain but everyone dances around it. What is auto attack exactly? Is it the 1 key spinning and when it stops, auto attack is over? People say that you should not interrupt auto attack, so you just wait until some visual cue tells you that auto attack is over and you can hit another skill? I will never be able to understand a 20 step rotation and I get that it means I will never raid, do cm strikes etc and I am fine with it.

But the 30k dps with 4 skills video is a fun watch but is not true really. I used the mechanist one, all the same gear, food, was close on the jewelry and I could barely get 12k dps. In open world pve I dropped down to 4-6k. Personally I feel that these videos are just someone showing off what they can do on the dummy but put them out playing and they fail.

Did you forget to add all boons to yourself and all conditions to the golem? That sounds like average solo (boonless) DPS, which is why solo builds tend to take their own boon generation, and as a result you'll never get more than about 10k DPS maximum out of solo/roaming builds (open-world PvE is a form of roaming). Even in group content, due to mechanics, you'll rarely see more than about 15-20k on optimal builds.

 

Autoattack is the #1 skill chain, including all skills in the chain. Usually the bulk of your damage is gated behind the last skill in the chain, so if interrupted your DPS drops severely. With Quickness, your auto-attack chain doesn't get interrupted unless you use certain skills, for example the Guardian hammer #2 doesn't interrupt.

 

You can tell if your auto chain will be interrupted by a skill by making sure you have Alacrity and Quickness, performing autoattacks then casting another skill while you're on the 2nd/3rd autoattack skill, if the icon changes back to the 1st autoattack skill, you interrupted it.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Except it absolutely isn't.

But it absolutely is.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

But it absolutely is.

Some random squad's requirements are not the content's requirements. And it's not even close to majority of the squads that require anywhere near the optimal performance from their squad members -and those that do aim at that close themselves off in their own full groups anyways.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Some random squad's requirements are not the content's requirements. And it's not even close to majority of the squads that require anywhere near the optimal performance from their squad members -and those that do aim at that close themselves off in their own full groups anyways.

 No it's pretty close to all of them.  Most squads are either hardcore, or aping the hardcore people in the hopes that they'll attain success.  

[Cyninja.2954]

57 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 No it's pretty close to all of them.  Most squads are either hardcore, or aping the hardcore people in the hopes that they'll attain success.  

Bs m8. Glad you finally found your way into instanced content around 2 years back, but your take is nonsense just as much as it was nonsense before you started actually completing the content.

There is a far larger span of performance disparity in instanced content besides top tier and wanna-be top tier and we actually have sufficient data to see that on log sites to be the case.

At most there is a favor-ism for a specific type of group on the LFG, but the LFG is not the only source or place where groups are made.

Here is an idea: try to expand your experience with content to more than your niche, just as you did when you started raiding, and maybe you'll eventually get to see the entirety of the community. Similar to how your understanding expanded after actually entering the content.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Bakeneko.5826]

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

There is a far larger span of performance disparity in instanced content besides top tier and wanna-be top tier and we actually have sufficient data to see that on log sites to be the case.

You must have some dev inside sources. Gw2 wing (or whatever it is called) is heavily biased with low value data.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Bakeneko.5826

[Cyninja.2954]

40 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

You must have some dev inside sources. Gw2 wing (or whatever it is called) is heavily biased with low value data.

I don't need perfect data to be able to see trends or make reasonable assumptions around a limited sample size (limited in this case still being millions of logs). A large enough sample size is more than  sufficient for that. Which you would know if you had any experience with statistics.

In this case, the large disparity and pretty large performance difference between the top end players and the rest is enough to call into question an assumption which is as binary as the one given (and that's going only off of successful logs, if one were to add unsuccessful ones it becomes even more evident that most groups aren't just "either hardcore, or aping the hardcore people"). Could one go further and make other assumptions? Maybe, depends on the assumptions made, say if I started to make a similar absurd claim like: 90% of benchmarks are needed for success in raids (which too is easily dis-proven with the imperfect data we have). Alas I did not though.

Now pair that with experience and personal observation, and it seems far more reasonable that a vast majority of players and groups aren't actually as hardcore as they are made out to be (which too would go along with statistical probability and distribution which is common for such samples). Again, no need for perfect data to make observations of this reasonable nature.

As far as reliability: we have a direct comparison of mech representation between developer data (which can be assumed perfect, though we have no exact metric on what constituted "active mech players") and wingman data and while wingman was leaning far more to an extreme (34% vs 20%), it did allow for accurate representation and explanation of things observed in game.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Bakeneko.5826]

13 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Which you would know if you had any experience with statistics.

That is why I said - low value data. It is biased. It needs data weighting. And gw2wingsomething would have P value that is not acceptable.

 

15 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I don't need perfect data to be able to see trends or make reasonable assumptions around a limited sample size (limited in this case still being millions of logs).

Of course you don't, god forbid it doesn't follow correlation you are looking for.  You have population of: People who play GW2 -> People who has API key generated -> People who have AcrDPS installed -> People who do instanced content -> People who do end-game CMs and raids -> People who use logs -> People who upload said logs. If YOU had any experience of statistics, you would see, why it doesn't even begin to represent community, even sub communities inside community.

 

Everything else you said is irrelevant as your base assumption is flawed and has no real statistical value.

[Cyninja.2954]

15 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

That is why I said - low value data. It is biased. It needs data weighting. And gw2wingsomething would have P value that is not acceptable.

No, it doesn't since it has sufficient data on the content this is about: instanced content. The claim was in regard to that content and a very specific extreme at that and the weighting in this case would even work against the original claim even more.

15 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Of course you don't, god forbid it doesn't follow correlation you are looking for.  You have population of: People who play GW2 -> People who has API key generated -> People who have AcrDPS installed -> People who do instanced content -> People who do end-game CMs and raids -> People who use logs -> People who upload said logs. If YOU had any experience of statistics, you would see, why it doesn't even begin to represent community, even sub communities inside community.

and within that small subsection, which is already far more "hardcore" or involved, there is a clear trend that the vast majority of players do NOT bring top tier performance. Now we could make some assumptions on their behavior, but to assume that the entire 80% of the remaining players expect top tier performance while they themselves are no where near it is a very far stretch (not impossible but very improbable with this amount of logs).

As such, the most reasonable assumption here, which is also corroborated if one has experience with groups from different areas of matchmaking in the game, is that if the most involved players are already not as "hardcore" as claimed, the rest is even less "hardcore".

Again, the data is more than sufficient to call into question such a ludicrous claim.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other. I've removed some posts.

Regards.

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 No it's pretty close to all of them.  Most squads are either hardcore, or aping the hardcore people in the hopes that they'll attain success.  

That's just false. If there are requirements for the squads in lfg, they are in vast majority (not to directly say: only) about showing kp in order to prove you know the encounters. People don't require benchmark/perfect/opitmal performance -or anywhere near it- and pretty much never did, probably outsite of the limited number of squads that are playing within their own group anyways so they have no impact on what is looked for in lfg.

And even with that, that's still speaking about "what people look for in their groups" instead of "what the content is balanced around". In both cases it's not what you're claiming it is.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Bakeneko.5826]

34 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

in order to prove you know the encounters

So much this. And, tbf, it's better than what we used to have with dungeons - AP ammount

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

18 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

No.  It means it is required.  

T4 Dailies + CMs, must be able solo all bosses or kick

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's just false. If there are requirements for the squads in lfg, they are in vast majority (not to directly say: only) about showing kp in order to prove you know the encounters. People don't require benchmark/perfect/opitmal performance -or anywhere near it- and pretty much never did, probably outsite of the limited number of squads that are playing within their own group anyways so they have no impact on what is looked for in lfg.

And even with that, that's still speaking about "what people look for in their groups" instead of "what the content is balanced around". In both cases it's not what you're claiming it is.

No it's true.  You don't just start with the KP, you need to get it from somewhere.  That "somewhere" is groups that have benchmark requirements who kick players with low DPS.  

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

14 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Bs m8. Glad you finally found your way into instanced content around 2 years back, but your take is nonsense just as much as it was nonsense before you started actually completing the content.

There is a far larger span of performance disparity in instanced content besides top tier and wanna-be top tier and we actually have sufficient data to see that on log sites to be the case.

At most there is a favor-ism for a specific type of group on the LFG, but the LFG is not the only source or place where groups are made.

Here is an idea: try to expand your experience with content to more than your niche, just as you did when you started raiding, and maybe you'll eventually get to see the entirety of the community. Similar to how your understanding expanded after actually entering the content.

I'm surprised this wasn't one of those removed posts.  The only thing you've expressed here is that you hate me, and that I am vaguely "wrong" somehow.