I'm just going to read some untamed tooltips here. You'll get it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

" While active, you cannot die. When the cantrip ends, heal based on a percentage of your missing health."

"Surround nearby foes with a cage of nature they cannot escape"

"A percentage of the strike damage you deal heals you."

"Disabling a foe reduces the cooldowns of all your equipped skills."

"You and your pet grant each other increased damage and movement speed when striking enemies. When this triggers, it refreshes the duration of all stacks"

"Teleport to your target, making nearby enemies vulnerable. If an enemy is struck, this skill's recharge is reduced."

 

But a couple of seconds of resistance and stability is worth a quarter of power zerker's damage, and the removal of Rousing Resilience, Dead or Alive and Shield Master. 

 

Do you understand how being so outstandingly measured with warrior balance looks when other classes get designed like this? Not even saying Untamed is unfair or unbalanced (it is, but we can talk about that later.)

 

You really can't just fix warrior without breaking it with the same balancing effort? You really can't just -not- make it weaker? You dishonor the players of the class that has the most hurdles to jump in pvp, and their cows, with these shenanigans. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

It's like they are afraid of giving warrior nice things.

[eXruina.4956]

i just don't care anymore,

 

oct 4 was great when they announced it, and we got to preview the changes, got really hype, got really hopeful.

 

playing the live version, with many promised changes being "bugged" and/or not working, while the numbers on other changes were so conservative they were hardly impactful.

 

its just disappointing.

Edited October 24, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[SlayerXX.7138]

Collective Copeium is high, when out of context description convey meaning in the collective. Don't even need to call the game mode.

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"A percentage of the strike damage you deal heals you."

Warriors have that trait.

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"You and your pet grant each other increased damage and movement speed when striking enemies. When this triggers, it refreshes the duration of all stacks"

Its a ramping up Warrior Sprint movement buff, with the mandatory Damage increase of most Elite Grandmaster Traits. Also what you left out is that 3 off your 5 description are directly competing with each other.

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Do you understand how being so outstandingly measured with warrior balance looks when other classes get designed like this? Not even saying Untamed is unfair or unbalanced (it is, but we can talk about that later.)

I don't think anybody outsides of the Warrior grieve fest understand, anything written here.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

27 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Collective Copeium is high, when out of context description convey meaning in the collective. Don't even need to call the game mode.

Warriors have that trait.

Its weaker Warrior Sprint, with the mandatory Damage increase of most Elite Grandmaster Traits. Also what you left out is that 3 off your 5 description are directly competing with each other.

You also can't die in defiance stance, who last 1 second longer and is a core Heal. Not saying stance is better because condition still tick, but acting like that is vastly more overpowered heal seems silly.

I don't think anybody outsides of the Warrior grieve fest understand, anything written here.

 

 

Anet can we have traits where just mentioning them summons people willing to go out of their way to defend their class when it isn't even being challenged? That would be amazing. 

I wanna be able to say "Defiant stance" and immediately have panicked warriors constructing entire arguments about why, actually, if you think about it, it's not -that- busted instead of just coming to laugh with the person. Not really, but you get the sentiment I hope~

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[SlayerXX.7138]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Anet can we have traits where just mentioning them summons people willing to go out of their way to defend their class when it isn't even being challenged? That would be amazing. 

I was just looking for some insight into Warrior. And this post was so cultish I felt compelled to comment. It does seems pretty nonsensical to list out of context descriptions and trying to make a point out off it. Like you assuming I'm a Ranger main. I know the sup forums are a little Circle grieve heavy, but that did strike me as Outstanding.

I'm Obviously not a ranger main, but you still have to assume it, because you can't fathom that the grieve over your Pet Profession is overplayed.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

I was just looking for some insight into Warrior. And this post was so cultish I felt compelled to comment. It does seems pretty nonsensical to list out of context descriptions and trying to make a point out off it. Like you assuming I'm a Ranger main. I know the sup forums are a little Circle grieve heavy, but that did strike me as Outstanding.

I'm Obviously not a ranger main, but you still have to assume it, because you can't fathom that the grieve over your Pet Profession is overplayed.

 

I would also like warriors to be able to backtrack when they realize they overplayed their hand in their zeal to get an easy down, but they don't have the kit for that ~ ❤️ 

 

Quote

Pet Profession

 

I'm not ashamed to admit I like warrior. It's my favorite class. That's why I'm here. 

Anyhow Anet please put my damage back. Oh god. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[SlayerXX.7138]

16 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I would also like warriors to be able to backtrack when they realize they overplayed their hand in their zeal to get an easy down, but they don't have the kit for that ~ ❤️ 

Like what is that nonsense? Was does that even mean. Did you quote me so I can read your grieving. Did that have to do anything with what I posted. Do i lack the victim mentality to follow your logic here?

I say the grieve about balance is overplayed and you start complaining about something. Is that it? What do i miss here?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Albi.7250

[oscuro.9720]

HEY! Leave rousing resilience out of this! New rousing is better imo.

 

Also I feel this post is a bit dramatic. The changes we got last patch are overwhelmingly positive. Warrior is in a much better spot. Is it on par with other classes out there? No, I’d say it’s lagging a bit. How much? That’s very debatable.

 

You mention the things you didn’t like (shield master, dead or alive). But you could read off the descriptions of Cull of the Weak, new Defy Pain, Resillient Dodge. They are strong traits.

 

While it is sometimes funny to be a bit masochistic and hyperbolic about the state of warrior, I think it’s not good to go too far and start only focusing on the negatives/the shortcomings. That’s not to say you don’t pay attention to them, but doomsaying because you don’t like a few things is probably more destructive than it is constructive. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Also I feel this post is a bit dramatic. The changes we got last patch are overwhelmingly positive. Warrior is in a much better spot.

doomsaying because you don’t like a few things is probably more destructive than it is constructive. 

You're absolutely right. The changes we got last patch -were- overwhelmingly positive for warrior overall. I appreciate that. The devs did very well respect to general warrior improvement.

For power berserker though, there was a very obvious drop in efficiency, and I don't think it right to harm the spec variant that was already performing under core further. I'm not asking for anything but the damage shaved from the original power berserker layout to be returned, especially since it took a mitigation hit as well.

I was very specific about what variant I am talking about. It didn't deserve the damage shave.

Quote

HEY! Leave rousing resilience out of this! New rousing is better imo.

You rite, but a sustain hit is a sustain hit. If you're going to make mitigating damage harder, then don't -also- shave the damage. 

Quote

While it is sometimes funny to be a bit masochistic and hyperbolic about the state of warrior, I think it’s not good to go too far and start only focusing on the negatives/the shortcomings.

The shortcoming is power zerker becoming weaker overall, effectively having to play harder in exchange for core/condi playing easier, when it was already doing that. That is significant. 

Just put the damage back.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Gotejjeken.1267]

As someone with a whole 15hrs total on Warrior I can still probably mash buttons to plat 1 on Bladesworn in sPvP; before the patch you could nearly AFK and be in plat 1.  

You actually have to press buttons to play untamed.  That's the general difference regardless of tooltips.  

Warrior at least has a LI build (Bladesworn); Ranger does not, because Anet took what we have in Soulbeast and made it more complicated.  

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As someone with a whole 15hrs total on Warrior I can still probably mash buttons to plat 1 on Bladesworn in sPvP; before the patch you could nearly AFK and be in plat 1.  

You actually have to press buttons to play untamed.  That's the general difference regardless of tooltips.  

Warrior at least has a LI build (Bladesworn); Ranger does not, because Anet took what we have in Soulbeast and made it more complicated.  

 

This is about power berserker. Bladesworn -was- mashing (before the stability nerf anyway). I am not defending it. 

I just want to press buttons and actually get rewarded for it without having my hand held.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shinichi Megure.8061]

3 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

HEY! Leave rousing resilience out of this! New rousing is better imo.

 

Also I feel this post is a bit dramatic. The changes we got last patch are overwhelmingly positive. Warrior is in a much better spot. Is it on par with other classes out there? No, I’d say it’s lagging a bit. How much? That’s very debatable.

 

You mention the things you didn’t like (shield master, dead or alive). But you could read off the descriptions of Cull of the Weak, new Defy Pain, Resillient Dodge. They are strong traits.

 

While it is sometimes funny to be a bit masochistic and hyperbolic about the state of warrior, I think it’s not good to go too far and start only focusing on the negatives/the shortcomings. That’s not to say you don’t pay attention to them, but doomsaying because you don’t like a few things is probably more destructive than it is constructive. 

 

Yes for spellbreaker mains the last patch was good for power berserker players  not so much .. I mean what do want to play now in pvp on berserker your choice is condi bunker or cc spam.. it's not cool when a playstyle gets killed for 300 thoughness and core bursts that were not realy needed to begin with or are in anyway impactful.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

29 minutes ago, Shinichi Megure.8061 said:

 

Yes for spellbreaker mains the last patch was good for power berserker players  not so much .. I mean what do want to play now in pvp on berserker your choice is condi bunker or cc spam.. it's not cool when a playstyle gets killed for 300 thoughness and core bursts that were not realy needed to begin with or are in anyway impactful.

 

This and it was ALREADY the worst.

I refuse to let power zerker be the sacrifice for this. 

Put the damage back. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Hotride.2187]

Honestly ranger is a lot like guard. Its only saving grace is that, well, its played by ranger players for the most part.

The rangers that are actually good are so few and far between that despite all the OP crap they get, it ends up kinda OK? Like even a bad ranger can kill you if you get sloppy and they get lucky, just cause all the goods they have.

But yeah when an actually good player plays its rough to fight on war.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I want action, no more bread crumps. Arms rework immediately, bug fixes rn, increased dmg potency across the warrior board. 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

28 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I want action, no more bread crumps. Arms rework immediately, bug fixes rn, increased dmg potency across the warrior board. 

 

All they need to do

is put the damage back. 

I have never experienced getting a buff to a class or profession without some kind of monkey's paw effect so consistently before.

Make berserk mode a burst skill again so it triggers Zerker's power, and fix bloody roar so it gives the same damage boost that it did before the rework. If that requires the activation of berserk do less damage up front, so be it.

It's fine for warrior to have both damage and a little resistance. 

They don't need to do large sweeping changes to other trait lines right now. Just make those two interactions trigger the damage modifiers they used to. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I want action, no more bread crumps. Arms rework immediately, bug fixes rn, increased dmg potency across the warrior board. 

 

Last patch was definitely not a “crumb”. Knowing what the priorities are for balance is important. The balance teams have limited time-capital to accomplish things, so demanding everything is unrealistic. Even if you were to assume that was their goal, there’s constraints you have to account for, as with anything. 
To me, damage is the next thing that needs to be looked at on Warrior. We saw Breaching Strike get damage on par with Guardian Greatsword 3, and that with the defense changes dramatically improved the spec’s standing. The loss of that damage is very apparent. How much of the rest of the classes shortcomings would be made up for with respectable damage being in our damaging skills? I suspect it would clean up a lot and open quite a few new builds. 
This includes things like;

100b damage increase

Breaching Strike or Aura Slicer damage increase (if the high damage on an unblockable is problematic, putting that damage on aura slicer would work as well).

Aura Slicer range increase

Eviscerate buff

An Arms rework is really not that pressing imo. Our trait lines are not lackluster anymore tbh. The weapons are now the choke point preventing further viability, at least for existing builds, imo. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Eviscerate buff

An untamed can maul a glass heavy armor for 7.5k with minimal damage modifiers atm. there's no reason T3 evisc should push 4.3k in that same matchup.

Disclaimer: untamed maul is fine.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[prototypedragon.1406]

I think if we ask our anet overlords to get the Fully automatic button from engineers rifle on all warrior weapons without relying on quickness along with being bread and buttered into more traits without nerfing previous ones first to test them, their "Vision " may not be questioned as much perhaps🤔

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This is about power berserker. Bladesworn -was- mashing (before the stability nerf anyway). I am not defending it. 

I just want to press buttons and actually get rewarded for it without having my hand held.

 

Oh ok, wasn't clear from the title, I thought it was a general warrior vs. ranger complaint. 

Was going to say you guys also do have Spellbreaker which is pretty effective in the right hands and definitely can cause most ranger specs some real trouble.  

[Ferus.3165]

7 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

All they need to do

is put the damage back.

That is enough for functioning weapons like dagger mainhand or axe offhand. I would argue even 100 blades would still be ok if the damage it deals would be threatening on a berserker stat warrior.

But weapons like sword (both main- and offhand) are so incredible bad and outdated and slow there is now way to fix this weapon without a proper rework.

[eXruina.4956]

9 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Last patch was definitely not a “crumb”. Knowing what the priorities are for balance is important. The balance teams have limited time-capital to accomplish things, so demanding everything is unrealistic. Even if you were to assume that was their goal, there’s constraints you have to account for, as with anything.

admittedly oct 4 wasn't crumbs, but sadly it wasn't as impactful as we'd hoped it would be.

 

among them i feel Resilient Roll is the most impactful. the rest of the changes even though good were mostly unimpactful.

 

i disagree with your statement regarding their priorities in balance.

 

i refuse to believe they couldnt have brought warrior back into viability with the last patch, given how the lone feb 2020 patch absolutely broke warrior and we're feeling its effects til this day years after. it just means nothing productive was ever done.

 

the patch was just too under done with the numbers they applied to the boons being so conservative, and many things still bugged and not working like % damage and on burst use triggers.

 

another thing that brought warrior back a bit was bugged breaching strike actually doing damage. now thats gone.

 

from my point of view in wvw roaming dealing with the more oppressive builds with the great players on the wheel, power warrior is still as dead as it gets.

 

in pvp admittedly things are a bit better, but i would say not by that much either.

 

i'm just an average joe, so who knows maybe i'm wrong. all i know is its evidently underpowered for me and unfun going against the overloaded stuff.

 

most legit success stories i've heard from other warrior mains thus far are mostly of warriors fighting other warriors. or only against fellow squish builds.

Edited October 25, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Grand Marshal.4098]

8 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Last patch was definitely not a “crumb”. Knowing what the priorities are for balance is important. The balance teams have limited time-capital to accomplish things, so demanding everything is unrealistic. Even if you were to assume that was their goal, there’s constraints you have to account for, as with anything. 
To me, damage is the next thing that needs to be looked at on Warrior. We saw Breaching Strike get damage on par with Guardian Greatsword 3, and that with the defense changes dramatically improved the spec’s standing. The loss of that damage is very apparent. How much of the rest of the classes shortcomings would be made up for with respectable damage being in our damaging skills? I suspect it would clean up a lot and open quite a few new builds. 
This includes things like;

100b damage increase

Breaching Strike or Aura Slicer damage increase (if the high damage on an unblockable is problematic, putting that damage on aura slicer would work as well).

Aura Slicer range increase

Eviscerate buff

An Arms rework is really not that pressing imo. Our trait lines are not lackluster anymore tbh. The weapons are now the choke point preventing further viability, at least for existing builds, imo. 

Was being a bit dramatic tbf, but yeah it will take them time when they sit down 1 day every 3 months to think about skill changes and numerical increases 🤣🤣

Much needs to be done. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

16 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

HEY! Leave rousing resilience out of this! New rousing is better imo.

 

Also I feel this post is a bit dramatic. The changes we got last patch are overwhelmingly positive. Warrior is in a much better spot. Is it on par with other classes out there? No, I’d say it’s lagging a bit. How much? That’s very debatable.

 

You mention the things you didn’t like (shield master, dead or alive). But you could read off the descriptions of Cull of the Weak, new Defy Pain, Resillient Dodge. They are strong traits.

 

While it is sometimes funny to be a bit masochistic and hyperbolic about the state of warrior, I think it’s not good to go too far and start only focusing on the negatives/the shortcomings. That’s not to say you don’t pay attention to them, but doomsaying because you don’t like a few things is probably more destructive than it is constructive. 

10/4 was very good for warrior, and I'm optimistic for the future under the new balance/skills team.

 

But Azure is right to point out that many professions have traits that are just stronger/better designed than Warrior's traits, including those introduced/modified on 10/4. That's something that I hope will be addressed moving forward, but, for now at least, the problem very much remains.