Khisanth.2948 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 15 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: Do you base your morality off of law? A company doing something amoral just because the law allows it doesn't clear them of any fault. The only way you will have consistent results is to clearly define what you want the results to be. That means rules, laws and regulations. You don't just leave it up to individuals to 'wing it'. A 13+ rating means it contains content unsuitable for those under 13. It does not mean it is targeted at that age. "Hundred Days - Winemaking Simulator" has a 10+ rating. How many 10 year olds do you know of that are interested in winemaking? People part of the Temperance movement would probably want that game banned. It might as well be "meth lab simulator". Not sure what rating that would get if it only involves making but not using. 10 hours ago, Silent.6137 said: MMOs are never targetted towards children in the first place, although teens are permitted to play. Children generally do not have disposable incomes to spend. If I do not find gambling to be amoral, why would it be amoral if it exist within a game? Children are exposed to all forms of gambling everywhere in the real world. Banning lootboxes because someone decided it's gambling and gambling is amoral, will hardly stop any children to be more morally well-adjusted. Trying to shelter children from the evil of lootboxes? Really? and attempting to shelter children from the world just leads to adults that are clueless about the world Which conveniently leads us back to parental responsibilities. It certainly would hurt to teach them about the potential pitfalls of gambling so they may avoid it or more generally risk management. 4 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I never understood how kids can get their parent's credit card. In many cases they don't need to. Step 1) Set up payment method(s) on your Google/Apple account Step 2) install game with in app purchases Step 3) use said app to distract child ... Step 4) become part of the news 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Sos.1457 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said: Maybe English is not your first language, but that's not how most view it. Yes, not all people with extreme views will resort to violence but their philosophy often leads to violence because it's just their logical conclusion that if society is so far off from what they regard is right. There are many that are parts of groups that will call for "death to X", or want to violently overthrow the government that are not guilty of any crime. But it is no surprise that if some members end up doing that. And certainly nobody wants to be associated with them. Or maybe its not yours... ex·trem·ist /ikˈstrēməst/ noun DEROGATORY a person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, especially one who resorts to or advocates extreme action. "political extremists" 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said: Not exactly a black-and-white topic imo. I probably have less of a problem with gambling itself being a thing, but more about not having the chances disclosed. When it comes to lootboxes, player collected data is more useful than disclosed rates anyway. Disclosed rates are only useful if there are clear definitions of what the rates represent and rules to prevent manipulation through statistics. It is all too easy to disclose a 10% rate for rare items while not mentioning that some rare items are rarer than others. Even if the rates are equal the mere existence of more than one already changes things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: Or maybe its not yours... ex·trem·ist /ikˈstrēməst/ noun DEROGATORY a person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, especially one who resorts to or advocates extreme action. "political extremists" I mean, not that posting a dictionary definition will change a popular perception, but perhaps you need to read it to. What is "advocates extreme action"? That's usually violence. edit: It even says derogatory in the definition, lol. Go look that up too. Edited October 26, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Is OP alright with the alcohol, kicking of chickens, tiny outfits, and other behaviors that are not appropriate for 13+? Or is it just the gambling? Do you think they will become alcoholics, animal abusers, or promiscuous because of a video game? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Sos.1457 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 36 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said: I mean, not that posting a dictionary definition will change a popular perception, but perhaps you need to read it to. What is "advocates extreme action"? That's usually violence. edit: It even says derogatory in the definition, lol. Go look that up too. TLDR: "Dictionary is wrong and I'm right" Where did you get the idea that your view of the word is the popular perception? You trying to change language means nothing. The facts are clear. "That's usually violence" Key word USUALLY. Which doesn't mean its the only way. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Sos.1457 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 39 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said: Is OP alright with the alcohol, kicking of chickens, tiny outfits, and other behaviors that are not appropriate for 13+? Or is it just the gambling? Do you think they will become alcoholics, animal abusers, or promiscuous because of a video game? Why are you arguing against me when you yourself are saying that there are even more things not appropriate for kids in the game? Does that not just prove my point even more so that the age rating is wrong? Look what happened when I mentioned gambling. People flip their kitten. Imagine I mentioned all the inappropriate things in the game. This would be a war zone. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: TLDR: "Dictionary is wrong and I'm right" Where did you get the idea that your view of the word is the popular perception? You trying to change language means nothing. The facts are clear. In the very definition you linked. It even labels it as derogatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Sos.1457 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 Just now, ArchonWing.9480 said: In the very definition you linked. It even labels it as derogatory. Whats your point? Of course extremism is going to be derogatory....Do you need the definition of derogatory as well or you already have your own made up like you do for extremism? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: Whats your point? Of course extremism is going to be derogatory....Do you need the definition of derogatory as well or you already have your own made up like you do for extremism? The whole point of this I thought was that saying extremist was an insult. And you linked a dictionary definition that confirms that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: Why are you arguing against me when you yourself are saying that there are even more things not appropriate for kids in the game? Does that not just prove my point even more so that the age rating is wrong? Look what happened when I mentioned gambling. People flip their kitten. Imagine I mentioned all the inappropriate things in the game. This would be a war zone. Because you didn't mention them, so I was curious as to what else you found objectionable. Many cultures drink at home and young people are allowed wine, many people slaughter their own livestock throughout the world, and in some places gambling is simply a game of dominos played with matches for bets or a few dollars bet in cards with friends. You or I may not do these things, but they're controlled and part of life. Those are taught in real life. Your family teaches you responsibility, they teach you compassion, they teach you appropriate behavior. When I was a child, my dad would sit me down when we watched films that had content that did not align with my family's morals or integrity. We talked about why those behaviors were part of the movie even though that's not something we do. And I'm fortunate in that, not everyone has a parent who takes that upon themselves to talk to their child rationally. Addictive personalities will have tendencies towards addictive behaviors and finding them. Do you wish feasts to be eliminated from games also because of the childhood obesity issues in western society? Should risky behaviors like jumping off of things be removed so children don't think that they can also? Should death be permanent since it is in real life as well? Know your child. Talk to them. Know what maturity level they are and what they can handle. The ratings are a guide, not a hard and fast rule. It's saying the content is something most +13 year old humans can understand and participate in. If you think your child can't handle it, or will become an addict, then help them choose something else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: Exposure to something is different than actually partaking in what you're being espoused to. No one said that if they remove them would make anyone morally well adjusted....trying to shelter children from gambling is bad? Holy kitten....You might not think your morals are lacking but I sure as hell think they are. You probably think its okay that kids are espoused to all this over sexualized content in media as well. One of the most amoral thing anyone can do whether as a parent or as a person in general is advocating ignorance. Show them the gambling. Teach them why it is bad. Show them the consequences. Particularly enthusiastic parent might rig a bet and have their children lose a week's allowance. If said children continues to gamble after that, well it's a lot like discovering your child has peanut allergies. As for oversexulized content, people like you are the ones who enable their existence by turning the mundane into the extraordinary. 2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said: While Blacklion boxes are comparatively tame, I don't get the whole gambling is fine sentiment in the Posts here. Sure I educated my kids, but the next person who knows. The magic of online gambling is it reaches to many people to easily. I don't know why People are so happy to defend the rights of companys to prey on the vulnerable, the uneducated and the mentality ill. Sure ecto gambling is op reaching, but Blacklion chest are just tame loot boxes. It is up to each person to decide for themselves what is and isn't an acceptable risk. Some people might need to be taught that there is risk to gambling and what those risk are. If someone asked me if they should gamble I would tell them no because I don't think it is an acceptable amount of risk. If someone asked me if they should go skydiving, BASE jumping, gliding and a long list of other things I would tell them the same thing. In my opinion dying would be just as bad as a gambling. - some people enjoy gambling - some people can manage the risk - some people cannot manage the risk People who cannot manage the risk should not be partaking in the activity. People are vulnerable to all sort of things. Food for example as demonstrated by the obesity issue. The solution to being uneducated is education not doubling down on ignorance. The severely mentally ill need care takers just like underage children. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Sos.1457 Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 45 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said: Because you didn't mention them, so I was curious as to what else you found objectionable. Many cultures drink at home and young people are allowed wine, many people slaughter their own livestock throughout the world, and in some places gambling is simply a game of dominos played with matches for bets or a few dollars bet in cards with friends. You or I may not do these things, but they're controlled and part of life. Those are taught in real life. Your family teaches you responsibility, they teach you compassion, they teach you appropriate behavior. When I was a child, my dad would sit me down when we watched films that had content that did not align with my family's morals or integrity. We talked about why those behaviors were part of the movie even though that's not something we do. And I'm fortunate in that, not everyone has a parent who takes that upon themselves to talk to their child rationally. Addictive personalities will have tendencies towards addictive behaviors and finding them. Do you wish feasts to be eliminated from games also because of the childhood obesity issues in western society? Should risky behaviors like jumping off of things be removed so children don't think that they can also? Should death be permanent since it is in real life as well? Know your child. Talk to them. Know what maturity level they are and what they can handle. The ratings are a guide, not a hard and fast rule. It's saying the content is something most +13 year old humans can understand and participate in. If you think your child can't handle it, or will become an addict, then help them choose something else. The examples you used aren't good examples imo and heres why I think that. When you eat a feast in a game do you get full? When you die in a game or jump off buildings, do you feel the pain? No you don't. Gambling, no matter if its real money or fake money, releases dopamine. You get the physical effects of it unlike the example you used. I think we might differ in this- I believe that society should help with raising the next generation not make it harder for parents to do so. With what you're saying, all the onus is on the parents. I don't believe thats the case. It is both the household and society that play a role in a way a child grows to be. School, friends, the internet all have a effect on how a person grows mentally. Society shouldn't be making it harder to raise children but it does. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlayerXX.7138 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said: - some people enjoy gambling - some people can manage the risk Define manage Generally people who like to gamble, manage that risk by not gambling. Or they manage it by barley not bankrupting themselves. 49 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said: People are vulnerable to all sort of things. Food for example as demonstrated by the obesity issue. Yeah Companies market high sugar products to kids for ages, with catastrophic consequences. Sure if a kid eats themselves into a heart attack at 14 it is kind of their fault. But it not okay, to let companies invest million of Dollars/euros to kitten over the health of Millions of people. I get your reasoning, but the conclusion seems to be as long a the damage is done Manipulative/indirect it's fine. Like if you brother or whatever would market unhealthy foods to your kid like companies do, I doubt you would let that slide too? I assume not. Or is it fine because there is a choice? So heroin should be legal? Because you can choose and educate no to do it? Edited October 26, 2022 by Albi.7250 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, Beast Sos.1457 said: The examples you used aren't good examples imo and heres why I think that. When you eat a feast in a game do you get full? When you die in a game or jump off buildings, do you feel the pain? No you don't. Gambling, no matter if its real money or fake money, releases dopamine. You get the physical effects of it unlike the example you used. I think we might differ in this- I believe that society should help with raising the next generation not make it harder for parents to do so. With what you're saying, all the onus is on the parents. I don't believe thats the case. It is both the household and society that play a role in a way a child grows to be. School, friends, the internet all have a effect on how a person grows mentally. Society shouldn't be making it harder to raise children but it does. Don't ever play a game of monopoly with kids... If your kids make friends that are into trouble, do you help discourage it or let society? If the school tells them the wrong information, do you not help them find the correct? Do you not help them navigate the internet and use it safely, or do you let society do all that for you? Society doesn't bring a game into your home or onto your child's pc. You do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent.6137 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 😈 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. 😈 Edited October 26, 2022 by Silent.6137 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsakhi.8124 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 ...So basically you feel that everyone should help raise other people's children despite the fact that it's not their obligation? I'm fine with protecting the vulnerable that are in front of me physically, but I'm not going to play co-parent for children that I didn't conceive. 😕 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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