Dragon's end Meta event

[Farohna.6247]

22 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

But why? That is just nonsense. 
Dragons End is not an hardcore open world area, it is a slightly more difficult meta event than all the other meta events. It’s not super challenging or hard. 

Agreed.  As a primarily open world player, I enjoy the meta.  The main problems are trying to get into an organized group in time to make it on a map, people paying attention, and improve the rewards.  People also fail TT if they don't have an organized squad.   Unfortunately I continue to get ones who run out of time.  

There is plenty of space for more involved metas, for easier ones, and for raids and instanced content.  

[chronometria.3708]

Its an event where you can judge success or failure before you even begin and you have to do this because the costs of wasting your time on a fail are total.

Unfortunately, this actually makes failures worse, as people dont commit fully. You will often see a group organising and there will be many players watching nearby - assessing if their time is well spent helping out, from what they can observe. If there is any doubt, they wont join in and thus a great many skilled players will simply vanish, effectively assuring the fail before the whole thing starts. Its an event that is built to reject help and newer or weaker players are simply excluded and thats wrong.

Its also an event that is heavily reliant on good command and squad organisation. Mighty teapot sometimes talks on his streams about how command and leadership are essential skills in this game but that they are poorly rewarded. This event should have been the one to break that situation and to ensure commanders got something out of it. That would also make it a good introduction to strikes, raids and so on, which should be the whole idea for an event at this level.

To make matters worse, the rewards are still just "some gold" and for the time its not enough gold, compared to other meta events like drizzlewood or things like dragonstorm. I only take part in it when the mood takes me and many skilled and veteran players will feel the same. There needs to be much better incentive for leaders and vets to put in the tremendous effort that is needed to secure a map and beat a group into shape. 

Every guild i join, i run into players who have never seen this event completed successfully. Some of them are actually involved in raids, strikes and much harder content, but they are all reliant on others to do the organization. and to get them involved. Their guilds tend not to be interested in the dragons end meta, because of the reward issue, time and so on. Its easier to get many of them raiding than it is to get them into this - how can that be good for the game?

Edited October 31, 2022 by chronometria.3708

[Silent.6137]

10 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

The issue with DE isn't really the difficulty but generally a few major design flaws in the player experience.

It is one of the weird meta that require players to group outside of the map to create an isolated map instance instead of joining existing map events for a successful result.

 

The only reason for forming a squad outside the map is to ensure that players do not have to spam "join" to get on the same map. This is due to the population cap (60 presumably...have never seen more than that on Temple top). It is no different than trying to join a meta map at TD or AB or any other maps. Either spam "join" or get on map early. Those maps do have more leeway because of the higher cap.

5 hours ago, Grinz.4560 said:

first things first...,)

 

basics

as comander you need player on the map, in your squad, so open up lfg and search for alac dps and quick. 

(fun fact you dont need 10 alac and quick player) but it would be nice to have more player playing it so (get the gear)

 

group 1 dps  (berserk or viper gear)
group 2 alac is support (divine or ritu gear) 
group 3 quick is support (divine or ritu gear)

 

pro tip: you need dps in your squad!  So build dps groups to max the damage for every single player in it.

 

a dps group looks like 5 player only so one of  each is the best

1 guard got a low healthbar (it allways provides boons to the group to stay alive)

1 warrior got a high healthbar (it can be condi, power, or quick) and he can be top dps in the squad

1 engi..., i dont play piano but even i know (it can be condi, power hybrid alac, or quick) it shares boons

1 thief got a low healthbar (it can be condi, power and alac)

1 ele got a low healthbar (it can be condi, power and alac) it shares boons

1 mes got a mid healthbar (it can be condi, power and alac) it shares boons

1 nec got a high healthbar (it can be condi, power and quick)

1 rev got a mid healthbar (it can be condi, power, alac, or quick) it shares boons

 

(some heal skills are group heals, so you dont need a healer if you keep that in mind)

 

good dps groups are 1 alac, 1 quick, 3 diffrent dps for lets say dps and to share other boons for even more damage like might. aegis on the other side is a free block to every class with a low healthbar and some of them dont got much stability,  so dont put 3 guards in a group, because it can be aegis and stabilty for 15 player blocking the thronehearts knockdown

 

a knockdown is a damage lose, aoe knockdowns is a damage lose to the entire squad. So building stupid groups is a damage lose frome the start because of so many facts i dont even talk about.

 

now that you got your 10 groups, you need to tell them were to go. btw we dont live in china, we read from left to right and we count 1, 2, 3, 4... or read a, b, c, d...

 

so its allways at the first split:  group 1-5 east & 6-10 west (its not the other way around)

 

the second split is like escort, so it is allways group 1-3 east, 4-7 mid (south) & 8-10 west.

(first things first: keep in mind that every event scale up with player numbers. at escort you like to have less monster spawns on east & west and in the second split group 4-7 fight the stongest boss) 

 

if you make splits like group 1-3 west at escort, but 1-5 east at the first split and 1-3 west at the second split again, some player go east if they should go west, and west if they should go east. Thats why i allready said something like, we on the westside of the world allways read 1a, 2b, 3c...

 

now you got your groups and splits we need a plan of what is coming so this is about comminication

 

Bossphase:
80% green (dps only for the damage buff to make more damage. refill emp after)
60% first split (group 1-5 east & 6-10 west. bunny cc and at 10% healt, damage stop. refill emp after)
40% green again (still only dps builds because hybrid builds like alac & quick are to weak. refill emp after)
20% second split like escort (group 1-3 east, 4-7 mid "south", & 8-10 west. bunny cc and at 10% health, damage stop. refill emp after)

 

there is allways a new player on the map, or somebody not doing this every day, so explain things like what about the breakbar.  if you got your dps groups and do green, you allready deal way more damage, but if you break the breakbar aswell its even more damage. So talk to your squad to break the breakbars. tell them to refill emp after green and splits. tell them to use the bunny at the splits to break the champs bar fast and do more damage. tell them to use cc skills 

 

or

 

talk about what to do if the tail is up. are you going for the tail, or leave it, talk about it before you give random orders in the fight. because some in your squad  might be are allready dead, some others are down, some are traped and you give random orders to half of the squad and some of them are new to the meta dont know what you want them to do

 

or

 

explain basics like dead player and events scales 

 

or

 

whats the thing with the green fields, whats to do if green is up and what is it good for, who should do it  

 

or

 

why do we kill thronehearts 

 

or

 

just keep failing like a noob 

 

Although your strategy is sound, it is overly complicated for an OW meta.

At this point in time, 7 months after release, there are always many in the squad that are familiar with the mechanics involved such that any explanations are unnecessary. There's always a few new players but they will be somewhat familiar with what to do after a couple of runs. First-timers just need to stay close to tag/crowd and pay attention to any instructions. However, instructions should be as short and as little as possible so as not to be confusing and be overwhelming.

The only thing you need in the squad composition is to split groups into 10 subs and hope to fill each with a Quick and an Alac. Fill the rest up with whatever is there. Not necessary to micro-manage. (sub 1-3 for initial dps/quick/alac)

• Escort: West/Fa - Sub 2-5; East/Navan - 8-11; Central /Caithe - 6-7 (6 join West, 7 join East after Central escorts) [sub 1 for late-comers and organizing only]
• Void Champs: Link PoI and splits to the 4 areas- East(Risen & Desolation), West(Wasteland & Mordrem) then Harvest Complex WP
• Crystal Phase: Split evenly at 4 corners and North. Fill evenly.
• 80% - DPS only in Green
• 60% - West (2-6); East (7-11) - (Not necessary to wait except in extreme cases. 30 secs is ample time.)
• 40% - All in Greens (30 spots to fill and to ensure all or as many as possible are filled, do not specify DPS only because there are always quite a few who will not go in them).
• 20% - West (2-4); East (9-11); South (5-8 - usually slowest because players tends to chase the champ rather than stay in the middle unless mentioned - champ will rush to edge and always back again after 2-3 secs). Kill evenly and be ready to help slower splits.

Always target and kill all Thornhearts except at last phase. Ignore Tails except in extreme cases.

Some commander tries to explain every single details, which should be avoided. Too much and long = 😖.

 

 

1 hour ago, chronometria.3708 said:

Its an event that is built to reject help and newer or weaker players are simply excluded and thats wrong.

Every guild i join, i run into players who have never seen this event completed successfully. Some of them are actually involved in raids, strikes and much harder content, but they are all reliant on others to do the organization. and to get them involved. Their guilds tend not to be interested in the dragons end meta, because of the reward issue, time and so on. Its easier to get many of them raiding than it is to get them into this - how can that be good for the game?

Any LFG squad will always have quite a few first-timers and those very new to the meta. Except for the few inexperienced commander, none of those who join will be excluded. Usually when you see players being kicked, those are the regular leechers - join squad and afk until last moment, or bring alts to afk for looting.

As for rewards, can always be lots better. But as has been mentioned, they are just as good or better than any other maps.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And that's somehow a reason to rebalance latest content -that reasonably should have an increasing difficulty level- according to someone starting the game and trying to rush through it without taking their time to learn the game?

I wonder why you try here to respond by trying to connect my statement to something i haven't said, or something i wasn't responding to? Did you ran out of arguments and had to make something up now? But to humour you, no - who makes those threads has absolutely no bearing on their validity (in either direction, btw). What my response does mean however (which you seem to intentionally skipped over) is that a claim that those threads are being made by "same vocal 3-4 players" is both completely baseless and completely false.

[Sobx.1758]

51 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I wonder why you try here to respond by trying to connect my statement to something i haven't said, or something i wasn't responding to? Did you ran out of arguments and had to make something up now?

You wrote about thread being made by new player/s. So that's how it's connected -because it responds to what I've quoted.

No worries, still didn't run out of anything, here's where you apparently did though:

(or to be more accurate it was even earlier, when you've started bringing up those made up claims as facts and then immediatelly ran from them when asked for details)

Edited November 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Cyninja.2954]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I wonder why you try here to respond by trying to connect my statement to something i haven't said, or something i wasn't responding to? Did you ran out of arguments and had to make something up now? But to humour you, no - who makes those threads has absolutely no bearing on their validity (in either direction, btw). What my response does mean however (which you seem to intentionally skipped over) is that a claim that those threads are being made by "same vocal 3-4 players" is both completely baseless and completely false.

True, I should have been more precise:

it's the same 3-4 forum regular posters who come in and blow up the topics. This topic would have been dead on page 1 if it wasn't for the same forum regulars blowing it to 6 pages and beyond.

As to validity, agreed. There is no way to ascertain the validity for course of action based around forum posts. Hence why I mentioned metrics used by the developers which likely guide their decisions as well. Metrics which always are useful as arguments when they favor ones opinion and suddenly become baseless the moment they don't.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[DexterousGecko.6328]

18 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

it's the same 3-4 forum regular posters who come in and blow up the topics. This topic would have been dead on page 1 if it wasn't for the same forum regulars blowing it to 6 pages and beyond.

I think that's the point, they live for the drama.

 

On topic, I'd like to see an easier DE meta as well.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 hours ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

On topic, I'd like to see an easier DE meta as well.

Go to DE then, it's way easier than before already. 😉

[Astralporing.1957]

45 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Go to DE then, it's way easier than before already. 😉

Nothing has changed whatsoever about the event itself in the last months. The only thing that changed is the group composition - the average quality of groups attempting it went up, because most of the average OW players stopped coming. Notice, that ad-hoc groups that form on map that's already in progress (the way other OW metas usually form) generally fail. It's only pre-formed groups that succeed.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nothing has changed whatsoever about the event itself in the last months. The only thing that changed is the group composition - the average quality of groups attempting it went up, because most of the average OW players stopped coming. Notice, that ad-hoc groups that form on map that's already in progress (the way other OW metas usually form) generally fail. It's only pre-formed groups that succeed.

Not having to carry people who are just there for the sight and to eat mechanics makes it easier.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Not having to carry people who are just there for the sight and to eat mechanics makes it easier.

Yes, having a vast majority of OW population ignore the event does indeed make it easier on the remaining few.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, having a vast majority of OW population ignore the event does indeed make it easier on the remaining few.

What's the problem with it? Didn't you want an easier DE meta? Without the "I want rewards for no effort" crowd the meta is quite easy.

Or you just want rewards for no effort like it's the case with the rest of Open World?

[Astralporing.1957]

19 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

What's the problem with it? Didn't you want an easier DE meta?

Yes, i'd prefer an easier DE meta. One that more people would be able to participate in. Making it easier on yourself by excluding majority of players is not what i had in mind.  It also goes against the core idea of that mode - OW was made on the idea of it never being exclusionary. You were supposed to never feel bad about seeing other players playing alongside you, and wanting to exclude them from participating. And yet DE is built around this very way of thinking.

19 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Without the "I want rewards for no effort" crowd the meta is quite easy.

Or you just want rewards for no effort like it's the case with the rest of Open World?

I'd indeed want the meta difficulty to be consistent with the rest of OW. The difficulty we have now is more suited for instanced content and should be contained there.

Unlike you, i don't care if in OW other players get carried upon my back. I want them to have fun too.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[yoni.7015]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, i'd prefer an easier DE meta. One that more people would be able to participate in. Making it easier on yourself by excluding majority of players is not what i had in mind.  It also goes against the core idea of that mode - OW was made on the idea of it never being exclusionary. You were supposed to never feel bad about seeing other players playing alongside you, and wanting to exclude them from participating. And yet DE is built around this very way of thinking.

This is simply not true. Everyone is able to participate, no one is excluded. Just join one of the many dedicated groups that run the meta regularly. 
If this is too much effort for you then just do the 99% of Open World content where you just have to auto attack while watching Netflix. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

This is simply not true. Everyone is able to participate, no one is excluded. Just join one of the many dedicated groups that run the meta regularly.

In theory, sure. For very small number of individual players, that is. If more of them would try that, we'd go back to most attempts failing however.

In short, the "Everyone is able to participate" is only true when almost noone will. You might as well say that "everyone can become rich".

Edited November 2, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, i'd prefer an easier DE meta. One that more people would be able to participate in. Making it easier on yourself by excluding majority of players is not what i had in mind.  It also goes against the core idea of that mode - OW was made on the idea of it never being exclusionary.

The game has so many metas that are a challenge to fail.

DE just highlights what happens when people can't be bothered to contribute, Gerent is similiar, but not as harsh.

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You were supposed to never feel bad about seeing other players playing alongside you, and wanting to exclude them from participating. And yet DE is built around this very way of thinking.

 Many of the "excluded" people don't feel bad about being carried. That's my problem. It's not a difficult meta, the game beefs players up with buffs that make it literally "don't step in red, hit boss" and even that's difficult for some.

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'd indeed want the meta difficulty to be consistent with the rest of OW. The difficulty we have now is more suited for instanced content and should be contained there.

It can't be consistent with other metas, since other metas are completely random in difficulty. 
Instanced content ranges from Shiverpeaks Pass(easier than like half of OW metas) to HT CM(hardest) in difficulty. You could throw the likes of Gerent in the pile, since IBS has Strikes that are harder. 

[yoni.7015]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In theory, sure. For very small number of individual players, that is. If more of them would try that, we'd go back to most attempts failing however.

In short, the "Everyone is able to participate" is only true when almost noone will. You might as well say that "everyone can become rich".

The group I am doing the meta regularly is usually around 20 players from the DE meta guild and the other 30 players come from LFG. Everyone can use the LFG and get a spot in the group, there are no requirements. And everyone can join the guild.
The group hasn’t failed the meta once with now almost 150 runs, all of them successful. 
There are several other groups like that. 
I guess you don’t really know the current state of the meta. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Unlike you, i don't care if in OW other players get carried upon my back. I want them to have fun too.

I skimmed over this, but, I'll be honest, carrying people who can't be bothered is not fun for me. Put extra effort into someone just eating mechanics endlessly is not fun, especially considering how that person will most likely moan if the meta is failed.

I suppose me having fun doesn't matter though.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I suppose me having fun doesn't matter though.

In OW, you having fun at the expense of others indeed should not matter. That exclusionary kind of fun should be a sole province of instanced content and PvP. OW should be for everyone, not just for select few.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

In OW, you having fun at the expense of others indeed should not matter. That exclusionary kind of fun should be a sole province of instanced content and PvP.

So, let me get this straight, others should be carried so they can have fun despite it not necessearily being fun to others. Gotcha. 

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

So, let me get this straight, others should be carried so they can have fun despite it not necessearily being fun to others. Gotcha. 

IN OW? Yes. It's public space, not a private one. What you're doing is an equivalent of chasing people away from public plaza just so you can have a fun party with friends.

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

OW should be for everyone, not just for select few.

It is, even the DE meta is for everyone. 

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

It is, even the DE meta is for everyone. 

Just like everyone can be rich.

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Just like everyone can be rich.

No. I see it three times a week that everyone can do the meta, everyone can join a squad. There are new players every run, no one is excluded. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

IN OW? Yes. It's public space, not a private one. What you're doing is an equivalent of chasing people away from public plaza just so you can have a fun party with friends.

Just because OW is a public space expecting some people to carry others at the expense of their fun isn't really fair, don't you think? 

"Play the way you want to play in Open World" was such a big thing thrown around, especially at EoD's release. What about the way I want to play? That doesn't matter?