Warrior Needs More Mobility [PvP/WvW]

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Other classes boast significant access to teleports, high swiftness (or even superspeed) up-time, and movement skills.  Warrior, on the other hand, has only mostly shorter-range movement skills.  The lack of TPs will always be a decided disadvantage, but this lack could be at least partially compensated for by having improved movement skills, either by increasing their range, decreasing their CD, or both.  Here are a few simple ideas for improvement:

 

GS5--Rush:  Reduce base CD to 15s.  (And please, for the love of God, fix its bugged movement).

 

Sword 2--Savage Leap: Reduce CD to 6s.

 

Dagger 2--Aura Slicer: Increase range to 450; reduce CD to 6s.

 

Sundering Leap: Increase range to 900.

 

Break step: Increase range to 600; Reduce CD to 15s.  Should also remove immobile.

 

Another idea: @Grand Marshal.4098 recently recommended a Heightened Focus rework that would grant swiftness on weapon swap and increase movement speed by 66% when you have swiftness.  This, or something like it, would be another method of improving Warrior's mobility.  This is not at all mutually exclusive with the above ideas; personally, I'd love to see all of the above be adopted.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[TugboatSteve.3607]

One of the reasons that mace has always felt awful to me is that it has no leaps, pure melee range, no cripple/immob, no movement speed mods. It requires some type of movement speed bonus to make use of. On top of that, long cast times that are badly telegraphed, and most of its damage is kept behind the third auto attack swing, which usually lands right after someone dodges or slips out of melee range. The range requirements just exacerbate the lack of movement.

It is quite frustrating that movement speed is gated behind discipline.

I think it would be nice to have some more core utilities, including a basic cripple and swiftness. Alternatively, a reliable gap closer. Bull's Charge is badly telegraphed, but at least it does make you move. Stomp is extremely clunky, with limited range, long cast time and awkward targeting. Easy to miss as a result.

I think this is a large reason why greatsword is so popular, it has two movement skills, one of which doubles as an evade, and a cripple. I think mace is so unpopular because it is so slow, both in terms of movement and in terms of swing timers/output. 

[Shinja.3451]

You've touched it, the most useless movement skills in the game, you've reached them XD

GS5: lag fails, this ability is constantly getting stuck in the middle of the path and hopefully scrolls 600, it's made up of almost 3 parts and the pre-launch, the initial run, the final run that changes direction in the middle and the jump that he gives at the end of the blow, bull charge is the same, only that it does not have the final jump of the blow, but rather it is an area only.

This ability should be unstoppable and remove conditions as if it had "Warrior's Sprint" since it's not an instant tp, you don't dodge while channeling into a charge ability, you don't get any damage reduction at all, so anything at range it can melt you before you get there, it should be faster, many times I've seen that a thief can overcome it using the 5 of the arc and finally hit several targets in the area.

SW2: This one is more doable, but its animation still seems a bit clunky and quite slow, more so currently, so again, it should hit in area, be faster, apply bleed, and shouldn't be impeded by movement effects, since It's a jump, I find the cd good, rather it lacks more impact and not be so clumsy and by more impact I don't mean more damage that has already gotten a little out of hand for a change, but to update an attack like SW1 or SW3.

"Sundering Leap" has the same flaw as "Stomp", they both would have to be unstoppable to justify their animation, which is kind of slow and even slower than a tp, making it faster would look weird, making them dodge would also look weird, removing the pre launch would help, give it more range we would have to see how it looks with the animation, since the asuras seem to fly and now who knows why "Stomp" has more cd in pve.

In summary
GS5, GS3, SW2, RF4, "Breaching Strike", DG2, "Eviscerate", "Earthshaker", "Sundering Leap", "Stomp" y "Bull's Charge" they would have to remove immobilize and prevent its application in their animation.

GS5, "Earthshaker", "Sundering Leap", "Stomp" y "Bull's Charge" they would have to be unstoppable, completely immune to CC, and reduce damage for the duration of their animation.
DG2 y "Eviscerate" increase your jump to 450.

Some that need to improve their animation or impact like SW2, although that would already need a separate review, after correcting several things.

And no, it doesn't help that the tools to make those abilities feel good and usable are in the traits.

[Potato Slayer.3107]

I miss when skullgrinder was a leap and blast finisher. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm not going to say no to your proposed changes CTS, but what also needs to be looked at is the speed at which the movement skills travel.

Some of them just take too long. If they were sped up, then warrior would have great mobility. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm not going to say no to your proposed changes CTS, but what also needs to be looked at is the speed at which the movement skills travel.

Some of them just take too long. If they were sped up, then warrior would have great mobility. 

I'm not going to say no to your not saying no, and I agree that at least a few of the movement skills could definitely be quicker (esp rush, aura slicer).

 

But I do consistently find myself lagging behind classes trying to kite me, despite using my movement skills to try to stick with them. That's what leads me to believe that having those skills be more available (and with a little added range in some cases) would help level the playing field. 

 

I say "help" level the playing field because our movement skills, no matter how good, are not going to compete with the instant ports many professions have. Nor will reduced CDs stop Rush from going the wrong way or Bull's Charge from getting stopped cold by a random stone on the floor. Our tools are a poor man's imitation of what other classes have; it wouldn't be unfair at all for us to at least get to use them more frequently. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm not going to say no to your not saying no, and I agree that at least a few of the movement skills could definitely be quicker (esp rush, aura slicer).

 

But I do consistently find myself lagging behind classes trying to kite me, despite using my movement skills to try to stick with them. That's what leads me to believe that having those skills be more available (and with a little added range in some cases) would help level the playing field. 

 

I say "help" level the playing field because our movement skills, no matter how good, are not going to compete with the instant ports many professions have. Nor will reduced CDs stop Rush from going the wrong way or Bull's Charge from getting stopped cold by a random stone on the floor. Our tools are a poor man's imitation of what other classes have; it wouldn't be unfair at all for us to at least get to use them more frequently. 

Shorter CD and faster traversal speed (functionally also a shorter cast time) would help the most. I'm not convinced more swiftness would help, mostly because I bother to run it when I want it using SoR or Warhorn or even OH dagger.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Shorter CD and faster traversal speed (functionally also a shorter cast time) would help the most. I'm not convinced more swiftness would help, mostly because I bother to run it when I want it using SoR or Warhorn or even OH dagger.

Agreed.

 

It'd be interesting to see if a little longer range and shorter CD on dagger 2 might be enough to make something like dagger/shield and hammer a thing. You can kinda do it now, but the mobility is just so bad. If you get mobbed, you're not getting out of it. 

[Potato Slayer.3107]

I think a second charge on dagger 2 similar to soulbeast would be appropriate 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

27 minutes ago, Potato Slayer.3107 said:

I think a second charge on dagger 2 similar to soulbeast would be appropriate 

That's a really neat idea. I had never considered that. That could definitely work. Good thought! 

[Zuko.7132]

A combination of greater distance, faster travel time, and lower cooldowns are all needed. Also, the removal of pre and aftercasts would be very helpful. To this day, I can't tell if using dagger 2 slows me down or speeds me up while out of combat due to the pre and aftercasts.

[Zekent.3652]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Some of them just take too long. If they were sped up, then warrior would have great mobility. 

I mean, just look at Vindicator's GS3, it's literally a Warrior's GS5 + Arcing Slice but smoother because it's faster xD

[Zuko.7132]

Just fought a nade holo today using d/sh and hammer defense spellbreaker and just got kited to death. No I don't think nade holo is op. Warrior just quite literally can't keep up.

[Zuko.7132]

Also I just tried vindicator for the first time, and I’m in love. Not only do they have a teleport in shiro, which yes I understand warrior will never have, but nomad’s advance and phantom onslaught? Phantom onslaught is a thousand times faster than rush, goes where you want it to go, and hits aoe. Nomad’s advance moves at a respectable speed, is 600 range, does great damage, and has a 3 second cooldown! I mean my god! I knew warrior didn’t have nice things, but I didn’t realize how bad it was. Urn of St Victor and Impossible odds both grant 50% move speed, but you have perms swiftness regardless via trait. Then you have riposting shadows and battle dance which are moving evades which you can about face for more engage or use as disengage. Just kitten. Is Vindicator OP? It’s definitely a bit overturned, but the bigger issue is warrior just has jack.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

22 hours ago, Zuko.7132 said:

Just fought a nade holo today using d/sh and hammer defense spellbreaker and just got kited to death. No I don't think nade holo is op. Warrior just quite literally can't keep up.

Warrior becomes a punching bag if ranged classes hit their ranged skills right.

In contrast, ranged classes are okay in melee range against warrior. They aren't in danger of being wrecked unless they brought zero stunbreaks.

Melee (especially warrior) isn't rewarded enough for doing well.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Warrior becomes a punching bag if ranged classes hit their ranged skills right.

In contrast, ranged classes are okay in melee range against warrior. They aren't in danger of being wrecked unless they brought zero stunbreaks.

Melee (especially warrior) isn't rewarded enough for doing well.

Part of that ticket system they previewed needs to take that into account.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

21 hours ago, Zuko.7132 said:

Also I just tried vindicator for the first time, and I’m in love. Not only do they have a teleport in shiro, which yes I understand warrior will never have, but nomad’s advance and phantom onslaught? Phantom onslaught is a thousand times faster than rush, goes where you want it to go, and hits aoe. Nomad’s advance moves at a respectable speed, is 600 range, does great damage, and has a 3 second cooldown! I mean my god! I knew warrior didn’t have nice things, but I didn’t realize how bad it was. Urn of St Victor and Impossible odds both grant 50% move speed, but you have perms swiftness regardless via trait. Then you have riposting shadows and battle dance which are moving evades which you can about face for more engage or use as disengage. Just kitten. Is Vindicator OP? It’s definitely a bit overturned, but the bigger issue is warrior just has jack.

Indeed. For the past week when my friends roamed and told me to go with them, I join on GS Shiro Vindi. Sword/Axe second set for even more cleave. Battle Dance my beloved! I think it's bugged however and doesn't remove immob when traited. In any case, Revenant is a better warrior without compromising it's fantasy for mediocre and ruined pop culture concepts like Bladetrash.

[oscuro.9720]

5 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Indeed. For the past week when my friends roamed and told me to go with them, I join on GS Shiro Vindi. Sword/Axe second set for even more cleave. Battle Dance my beloved! I think it's bugged however and doesn't remove immob when traited. In any case, Revenant is a better warrior without compromising it's fantasy for mediocre and ruined pop culture concepts like Bladetrash.

It is alright, my Brother. You may have strayed from the Path of the Warrior, and onto unstable ground, clouded by the allures and deceptions of the mist. But forgiveness is always offered to those who are devote to the path of the warrior. Through the work of thine own hands, you may purge thy transgressions and reclaim yourself in the glorious halls of Valhalla. Thine penance is 12 duel wins vs a celestial virtuoso. Now go forth, my Brother, and carry out thine penance to wash thyself of the sins of thine weakness!

 

Man these are getting more cultish…oh well, we will power through anyways!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

It is alright, my Brother. You may have strayed from the Path of the Warrior, and onto unstable ground, clouded by the allures and deceptions of the mist. But forgiveness is always offered to those who are devote to the path of the warrior. Through the work of thine own hands, you may purge thy transgressions and reclaim yourself in the glorious halls of Valhalla. Thine penance is 12 duel wins vs a celestial virtuoso. Now go forth, my Brother, and carry out thine penance to wash thyself of the sins of thine weakness!

10 wins versus a Cele Harbae.

24 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Man these are getting more cultish…oh well, we will power through anyways!

Be swayed not! Dash your doubts upon the rocks and cast aside your weakness! Deep Horse Stance.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

22 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Part of that ticket system they previewed needs to take that into account.

It used to be our damage that our tickets were spent on. Now with the CC nerfs and the outright damage nerfs , we've got some unspent tickets.

What they will use them on? Idk. The hammer was a given to what they could fix since all warriors stopped using it. Everything else that needs fixing like the disadvantage of melee might be unclear to them.

[oscuro.9720]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

10 wins versus a Cele Harbae.

Be swayed not! Dash your doubts upon the rocks and cast aside your weakness! Deep Horse Stance.

Yes brother! 
 

Retreat - Verb: a futile action performed by warriors victims who lose their nerve in the face of warrior’s overwhelming bloodlust. All who retreat die. 
 

Deep Horse Stance, Full Thrust.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

 

Deep Horse Stance, Full Thrust.

Can't unsee that.

 

RIP my innocence.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

38 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Can't unsee that.

 

RIP my innocence.

Lol. RIP.

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Can't unsee that.

 

RIP my innocence.

Baptism of desecration, truly befitting of a Warrior!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Baptism of desecration, truly befitting of a Warrior!

Reminds me of the GW1 male warrior dance.