Undo the rifle changes

[Kalli.4506]

I came back to the game just a week ago after a year of being unintrested of the game. I have been trying to get back in the game many times but always got bored at the moment i logged in.
So this time i tried to make a new engineer even tho I already have one scrapper and one holosmith from before, found out that the rifle actually bacame really fun to play with so I decided to stick with core engineer since I already have the other elite specs and mechanist doesn't interest me, and I finally feel the game is fun again.

But now Anet decides to takes away the only fun weapon for core engineer. The fun and satisfying feeling is totally gone now, and that is the most important thing for me, it hast to feel fun to play it.
I liked how the riflet was before this updare, i liked the hipshot animation. Now it looks like a deadeye.
This is really terrible.
Am I forced to go with scrapper just to get another weapon that isn't boring?

Edited November 30, 2022 by Kalli.4506
typo

[Doctor Hide.6345]

Well, aside from janky animations making it two shot, the dps is the same for rifle for PvE. So if you were just using it in PvE, it is still good. Just need to adjust to the Jank now which is more a matter time and getting used to it. If you used it in PvP/WvW, that is a different matter altogether since it was compensated. But, all they have to do is buff it to what it was with three round animation, and it would work again in PvP.  I get not liking the animations because I don't like it either, but damage wise if they equaled it out I am fine with the changes because numbers matter more at the end of the day than animations do.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Kalli.4506]

1 hour ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Well, aside from janky animations making it two shot, the dps is the same for rifle for PvE. So if you were just using it in PvE, it is still good. Just need to adjust to the Jank now which is more a matter time and getting used to it. If you used it in PvP/WvW, that is a different matter altogether since it was compensated. But, all they have to do is buff it to what it was with three round animation, and it would work again in PvP.  I get not liking the animations because I don't like it either, but damage wise if they equaled it out I am fine with the changes because numbers matter more at the end of the day than animations do.

I'm only doing pve atm. I know it's still okey damage wise, I just don't like the feel of it anymore. This changes took away all fun it had and for me, having fun is the most important. If it's not fun there's no point playing it even if it was way over the top..

[ThunderX.6591]

Rifle Engi damage skill 1 was nerfed with the patch, that is the unfortunate true, apart the bad new animation that is really strange.

We can only wait in a bonus up damage and a better smoth animation, nothing else we can do.

[Barabbas.8715]

They nerfed rifle damage because all the people in Silver and Bronze in sPVP cried about it for so long because they couldn't figure out how to use LoS, barriers, shields, reflects, and every thing else that made rifle useless in Gold and higher. If all Anet did was nerf the damage, I could have lived with that.

 

However, changing the animation and giving it a delay before the first shot even fires is trash. Makes rifle feel slow and unresponsive to play and is a major PVE nerf for a variety of reasons such as making it harder to tag mobs. This delay happens every time you use a skill, every time an enemy breaks LoS, every time an enemy dies, every time you switch targets, and every time an enemy moves behind you. Rifle 1 is the most obnoxious, unresponsive, and unsatisfying auto-attack in the entire game now.

 

Remember when the devs of another MMO made that famous blunder where they said "We don't want you playing Demo Lock?" when explaining why they ruined that class? This is Anet's version of that. They took a fun weapon and ruined it on purpose because they don't want people playing it. If I was a rifle Engi main, I would have quit the game over this crap. It's amazing that this new rifle was play-tested and someone said "Yep, this is exactly what we want."

Edited December 1, 2022 by Barabbas.8715

[Sonar.4578]

The rifle change DESTROYED the rifle mechanist. The majority of the attack power came from autoattack, and that was fine it was just a different playstyle, compared to rangers second longbow one shot kill skill. But now rifle engi in wvw is just unusable, no damage at all. I dont care about the mecha nerfs, but the rifle skill is now clunky, slow and deals no damage in wvw. You completely destroyed this build. 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

39 minutes ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

They nerfed rifle damage because all the people in Silver and Bronze in sPVP cried about it for so long because they couldn't figure out how to use LoS, barriers, shields, reflects, and every thing else that made rifle useless in Gold and higher. If all Anet did was nerf the damage, I could have lived with that.

 

However, changing the animation and giving it a delay before the first shot even fires is trash. Makes rifle feel slow and unresponsive to play and is a major PVE nerf for a variety of reasons such as making it harder to tag mobs. This delay happens every time you use a skill, every time an enemy breaks LoS, every time an enemy dies, every time you switch targets, and every time an enemy moves behind you. Rifle 1 is the most obnoxious, unresponsive, and unsatisfying auto-attack in the entire game now.

 

Remember when the devs of another MMO made that famous blunder where they said "We don't want you playing Demo Lock?" when explaining why they ruined that class? This is Anet's version of that. They took a fun weapon and ruined it on purpose because they don't want people playing it. If I was a rifle Engi main, I would have quit the game over this crap. It's amazing that this new rifle was play-tested and someone said "Yep, this is exactly what we want."

 

You and I use the word nerf very differently. Nerf refers to numbers mostly for me. It is the same animation speed as the three round, and tagging is not that important in the grand scheme of things when hitting bosses is more important where the damage actually matters. This change did not change the numbers of boss fights because of the animation change. 

[Barabbas.8715]

58 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

You and I use the word nerf very differently. Nerf refers to numbers mostly for me. It is the same animation speed as the three round, and tagging is not that important in the grand scheme of things when hitting bosses is more important where the damage actually matters. This change did not change the numbers of boss fights because of the animation change. 

Apparently you don't realize that shooting bosses isn't the only thing that auto attack is used for in this game. And I never thought I'd have to explain to someone what a nerf is, but it isn't just damage numbers. Obviously. If your entire GW2 experience is just shooting bosses, then good for you I guess, but they could have lowered the damage without making the rifle feel like crap.

[China.5268]

41 minutes ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

 they could have lowered the damage without making the rifle feel like crap.

 

Nah that would sux too, what they should've done is make it 2 shoots + grenade BUT KEEP THE ATK SPEED or KEEP AS IT WAS BUUUT ONLY DECREASE THE ATK SPEED A LITTLE, i said A LITTLE and NOT COMPLETELY KILL the weapon skill 😪.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 hour ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

Apparently you don't realize that shooting bosses isn't the only thing that auto attack is used for in this game. And I never thought I'd have to explain to someone what a nerf is, but it isn't just damage numbers. Obviously. If your entire GW2 experience is just shooting bosses, then good for you I guess, but they could have lowered the damage without making the rifle feel like crap.

 

Actually, no they could not have lowered the numbers because that would ruin the rifle. No one would take it if the numbers lowered anymore because it would become useless for instanced stuff. It would make rifle mech dead on arrival if they did that. Changing animations sucks yes, but it can still clear content just fine because numbers are the only thing that matter in the end. Again talking PvE here. The PvP and WvW side is different. But nerfing damage just for the sake of changing animation back is a bad and stupid idea.

[Raasckar.7025]

The funny part about this nerf in the rifle's attack speed is that it became slower than the attack speed of a giant two-handed hammer used by a catalyst  :( .

[Robotsynonymous.7238]

ExCeL iS fAvOrAtE gAmE aNd EvErY gAmE sHoUlD b LiKe ExCeL bEcAuSe AnImAtIoNs DoNt MaTtEr.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

22 minutes ago, Robotsynonymous.7238 said:

ExCeL iS fAvOrAtE gAmE aNd EvErY gAmE sHoUlD b LiKe ExCeL bEcAuSe AnImAtIoNs DoNt MaTtEr.

 

They do matter, but when it comes changing animations verses nerfing numbers. I am on the side of keeping numbers because as much as I am a theme person and liking certain looks. I can understand the value that numbers bring, and even I can admit they far outweigh animations/theme etc in the long run. People getting angry at the animations do have that right, and it is justified to an extent. But, that extent does mean the sacrifice of numbers if things are to be changed back. Sure, if they reverted it and kept the same numbers with no nerfs I would be all for it. That won't happen most likely though, so it is best to look for the middle ground which is what we have now. Also, they may have screwed up the numbers from what I am hearing from some people, so it might get buffed anyways to keep net neutral. Logic here matters more than people's feelings.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Robotsynonymous.7238]

Because the most loved games in all of gaming history prioritize numbers over the look and feel of the gameplay. Right...

 

Also, animations or number adjusting is a false argument. There is absolutely no need to adjust animations if all you're worried about is balancing DPS. If you've nailed the animation speed, logically the only thing that needs to be adjusted is the damage. Or traits that trigger additional effects. Changing the fun animation and sounds of rifle 1 was just dumb.

 

 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

9 minutes ago, Robotsynonymous.7238 said:

Because the most loved games in all of gaming history prioritize numbers over the look and feel of the gameplay. Right...

 

Also, animations or number adjusting is a false argument. There is absolutely no need to adjust animations if all you're worried about is balancing DPS. If you've nailed the animation speed, logically the only thing that needs to be adjusted is the damage. Or traits that trigger additional effects. Changing the fun animation and sounds of rifle 1 was just dumb.

 

 

 

     Actually, the best games do both. They get the animations and numbers right, but they also pick numbers as well a lot of times when it comes to end game because most games don't change animations the speed of GW2.  The only time I can think animations change for most MMOs is when they get upgraded skill levels of it which makes sense. GW2 is kind of different in this regard always changing stuff around for basic attacks and such. It is its own beast, so that is why I say numbers matter more atm.

      But like I said, I would love for them to revert so there is no "Or" here, but I don't think that is going to happen. So when I see people saying just bring back the old AA and just nerf it to compensate. That kind of triggers me because I don't want mech dps to be bottom of the barrel. I like where it is at, so I fight for that here. And yes, I do hate the new animation a lot like most people here, but I can learn to adapt to it if it means the numbers stay the same as they were in the three round AA.  I really don't want another mech nerf in numbers.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

They nerfed rifle damage because all the people in Silver and Bronze in sPVP cried about it for so long because they couldn't figure out how to use LoS, barriers, shields, reflects, and every thing else that made rifle useless in Gold and higher. If all Anet did was nerf the damage, I could have lived with that.

Not every class had good access to barriers, shields, reflects. I think the main problem I saw was it really skewed the meta to classes that had these tools, like Elementalist.

Every player just ran something to counter and Engineer combinations. Line of sight was useful becouse the number of bullets, quickness and mobility Engineer had. Boon removal also meant nothing since reapplication was instant.

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Sonar.4578 said:

The rifle change DESTROYED the rifle mechanist. The majority of the attack power came from autoattack, and that was fine it was just a different playstyle, compared to rangers second longbow one shot kill skill. But now rifle engi in wvw is just unusable, no damage at all. I dont care about the mecha nerfs, but the rifle skill is now clunky, slow and deals no damage in wvw. You completely destroyed this build. 

Maybe use one of the many Engineer kits. I mean rifle wasn't always this good and now you have a very good reason to go back to them. 

What was destroyed was the a single weapon that did it all. Engineers were never only about a single weapon, kits offered the highest DPS for Engineers when used correctly. 

[Selestra.2714]

Many years have past, since I posted something in the GW2 forums (in general I rarely post anything), but for gods sake revert the Rifle 1 change! I never liked the Engineers weapon skills and just out of boredom made one to farm the weekly key. Had so much fun with the Rifle, predominatly because of the satisfying auto attack animation and sounds.

The new animation feels so super awful to me, boggling how you can make such a bad decision! 😂
 

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I am slowly getting used to the new animation. It is not as good as what it was previously, but it feels a hell a lot better than hip shot.

I would prefer they bring it back though.

Or at minimum fix the weird timing bugs with it.

[Kuma.1503]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Not every class had good access to barriers, shields, reflects. I think the main problem I saw was it really skewed the meta to classes that had these tools, like Elementalist.

Every player just ran something to counter and Engineer combinations. Line of sight was useful becouse the number of bullets, quickness and mobility Engineer had. Boon removal also meant nothing since reapplication was instant.

Guardian has phenominal access with sanctuary and shield of the avenger. Dragon hunter has their F3 in a pinch, and can threaten to pull the mechanist into a bad position or true shot them in the face for 10k. 

Necro runs CPC to deal with other harbingers and rangers. 

Holo runs shield which has a block and reflect. 

Deadeye outranges them and has sniper's cover. And stealth so they can get the opener. Thief in general also has smokescreen and daggerstorm as a panic tool. Assuming you catch them without stealth or ports. 

Untamed has that giant fart bubble. And outranges them. And out bursts them with their port tail swipe+maul combo. And And has godlike durability compared to mech. And has a better pet that the don't need to stack on (smokescale and drake got hands in pvp). And they can instantly port the pet on top of you on a short cooldown (Smokescale can do it twice. It's very sticky PvP). And they have built in boon rip to get rid of your stab/prot before they combo you. 

Herald can quickly close the gap with their ports. Heal off their pew pew with infuse light. And they have their staff evade + block. 

Virtuoso spits out aegis like candy, can match their range, and will actively punish you if you mindlessly attack into their blocks by generating infinite daggers. They can also distort twice with F5 and Blade Renewal. Technically 3 times with signet of illusions. 

 

Mech isn't the reason why the meta got skewed towards eles. There are more meta projectile users that people are building around. 

Ele is still going to be top tier regardless of the state mech is in. So long as catalyst is able to be a legitimate DPS threat with a healing amulet and dolyak rune, and tempest pumps out magnetic aura to punish ranged agression, shocking aura to punish melee aggression, and heals for as much as it currently does after all the buffs it got, it will still be good. (Earth shield nerfs will help bring it down tho).

Hell, Untamed is pretty much a better version of rifle mech in every way. The only downside is that it's harder to play. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Wing.5819]

On 11/30/2022 at 7:16 AM, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

the dps is the same for rifle for PvE. 

No it's not

[Sobx.1758]

Pre-patch rifle iteration was a weird machine-gun caricature. The biggest issue I see here is that they took this long to back out of that machine-gun design, so people understandably got used to it and now "it feels bad".

3 minutes ago, Wing.5819 said:

No it's not

Then maybe nearly the same. For whatever matters, it easly might as well be called the same.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Wing.5819]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then maybe nearly the same. For whatever matters, it easly might as well be called the same.

No. In real world scenarios, the damage has been nerfed due to the reduced number of projectiles and the delay that was added prior to the first shot. Less cleave hits means less cleave damage.  And when you would have hit something before, now it's dead before your shot goes off due to the delay.

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, Wing.5819 said:

No. In real world scenarios, the damage has been nerfed due to the reduced number of projectiles and the delay that was added prior to the first shot. Less cleave hits means less cleave damage. 

I am very much talking about "real world scenarios" here.

12 minutes ago, Wing.5819 said:

And when you would have hit something before, now it's dead before your shot goes off due to the delay.

So are you talking about dps here or tagging a trash mob? 😄

Edited December 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Guardian has phenominal access with sanctuary and shield of the avenger. Dragon hunter has their F3 in a pinch, and can threaten to pull the mechanist into a bad position or true shot them in the face for 10k. 

Necro runs CPC to deal with other harbingers and rangers. 

Holo runs shield which has a block and reflect. 

Deadeye outranges them and has sniper's cover. And stealth so they can get the opener. Thief in general also has smokescreen and daggerstorm as a panic tool. Assuming you catch them without stealth or ports. 

Untamed has that giant fart bubble. And outranges them. And out bursts them with their port tail swipe+maul combo. And And has godlike durability compared to mech. And has a better pet that the don't need to stack on (smokescale and drake got hands in pvp). And they can instantly port the pet on top of you on a short cooldown (Smokescale can do it twice. It's very sticky PvP). And they have built in boon rip to get rid of your stab/prot before they combo you. 

Herald can quickly close the gap with their ports. Heal off their pew pew with infuse light. And they have their staff evade + block. 

Virtuoso spits out aegis like candy, can match their range, and will actively punish you if you mindlessly attack into their blocks by generating infinite daggers. They can also distort twice with F5 and Blade Renewal. Technically 3 times with signet of illusions. 

 

Mech isn't the reason why the meta got skewed towards eles. There are more meta projectile users that people are building around. 

Ele is still going to be top tier regardless of the state mech is in. So long as catalyst is able to be a legitimate DPS threat with a healing amulet and dolyak rune, and tempest pumps out magnetic aura to punish ranged agression, shocking aura to punish melee aggression, and heals for as much as it currently does after all the buffs it got, it will still be good. (Earth shield nerfs will help bring it down tho).

Hell, Untamed is pretty much a better version of rifle mech in every way. The only downside is that it's harder to play. 

 

 

Good points but that is only like half the elite landscape, the problem is being forced to pick a counter to Engineer.