Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, shion.2084 said: I have a hard time with warrior as a scrapper. I can beat one that's a weaker player than me... but anyone close has a flat advantage. They tend to close range very well when you are ranged, and if I stay ranged I can't do enough damage to pressure it off the point. The real damage from my attacks relies on me being in mele. There's nothing with enough stability to be able to deal with the ridiculous number of stuns that I have access too. I even tried doing FT with juggernaut. Essentially I spend most of my time either not being able to do damage, or having to hit into full counter (ie backing up off point). My shredder gyro triggers the kitten thing. Generally fights go to stalemate for a while, where they aren't taking enough damage that they can't sustain through, then they'll manage to land a CC that I couldn't avoid cause I'm out of dodges... and once one hits its over. I think the reason people complain about this warrior build is that it removes agency. There's a good period of time where you literally can't do any damage to them, or can't hit them with your best attacks, and by the time that expires they've healed. The second lack of agency is that when they do manage to land a stun... there's a chaining effect and from that point there are situations where there's literally nothing you can do for the next 4 seconds but watch yourself die. I think it'd be less painful if you just gave them a 20K attack and get it over with. Of course there's gun flame for that 🙂 Anyway its not really a complaint about warriors being viable... its about the way in which they are viable. Believe me, warriors would rather not have to rely on CCs to have a chance at landing their damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Believe me, warriors would rather not have to rely on CCs to have a chance at landing their damage. I even tried to use flash bang... but someone gave them resistance... and using flashing requires me to doge roll... so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, shion.2084 said: I even tried to use flash bang... but someone gave them resistance... and using flashing requires me to doge roll... so yeah. Juggernaut and FT should still help you though. Wrench has a nice block on it as well FWIW. FT still has the blind on it if they manage to strip the stability right as it is applied by Juggernaut and have a followup CC inbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Juggernaut and FT should still help you though. Wrench has a nice block on it as well FWIW. FT still has the blind on it if they manage to strip the stability right as it is applied by Juggernaut and have a followup CC inbound. Yeah the problem is that they nerfed FT. SO it does no damage... and you have to be in it a while to get the one stability. It was an experiment to see if it could help... but it makes me even less likely to be able to actually win a fight because of the DPS tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, shion.2084 said: Yeah the problem is that they nerfed FT. SO it does no damage... and you have to be in it a while to get the one stability. It was an experiment to see if it could help... but it makes me even less likely to be able to actually win a fight because of the DPS tank. anyhow, maybe other classes can deal with warriors but the main point was that the reason people are frustrated is not because warriors are viable. It is the specific aspects of how they are viable. Lack of agency on attacking, Lack of agency when hit, Ability to tank well (block and sustain) and yet still attack with very good damage. IN the current state, no good warrior will ever lose to me regardless of which build I bring. Edited December 9, 2022 by shion.2084 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) duplicate Edited December 9, 2022 by shion.2084 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Blade - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) Thats odd... I see a multitude of ways to gain blades without having to block while engaged in melee range.... Perhaps you should tweak your build a little for fighting against Spellbreakers? Otherwise, it would be like me complaining about fear lock from a Terrormancer when I bring stunbreaks that all give stability and then coming to the forums and saying Necro needs to be fixed😕 (Spoiler, they don't). Slight snark aside, what @CalmTheStorm.2364 said is true. If you get into a balanced match up, it's going to come down to who didn't dodge at the critical moment, or who misplayed their opening. In Virts case, they're still a mesmer and can still spike from out of stealth and/or blink away if they screw it up, or spam distortion with signets. Why I'm not surprised, the one who lives on the forum with 9500 posts throws a random link (that he didnt open himself even) but doesnt know how virtuoso actually plays and works. Why would you play the matchup when you can throw random link and feel proud of it ? Spike from stealth... with virtuoso... a blades that arent instant and visible ... into 8s cd FC... typical forum, warrior bad, mesmer OP. Why would someone know the MU 🙂 If i'd be creating SPB and you would be virtuoso, how many times you would win? Edited December 9, 2022 by Hederrain.9207 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: More like "Warrior being garbo" Forum: Warrior is garbage pls buff! "Warrior being OP" Forum: Warrior is garbage pls buff! (or at least dont nerf!). Its easiest class to play against, its a free kill! Edited December 9, 2022 by Hederrain.9207 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hederrain.9207 said: Why I'm not surprised, the one who lives on the forum with 9500 posts throws a link but doesnt know how virtuoso actually plays and works. Why would you play the matchup when you can throw random link and feel proud of it ? Spike from stealth... with virtuoso... a blades that arent instant and visible ... into 8s cd FC... typical forum, warrior bad, mesmer OP. Why would someone know the MU 🙂 If i'd be creating SPB and you would be virtuoso, how many times you would win? I see you missed the point entirely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: I see you missed the point entirely. Cant miss something you never had to begin with. Nice link by the way. Did you see it yourself even before posting it? Spoiler: most of it is THROWING A BLADE, of course, as a mesmer player, I can slot 6 traitlines, have all weapons equipped at the same time, and all utilities. Edited December 9, 2022 by Hederrain.9207 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 18 minutes ago, shion.2084 said: Yeah the problem is that they nerfed FT. SO it does no damage... and you have to be in it a while to get the one stability. It was an experiment to see if it could help... but it makes me even less likely to be able to actually win a fight because of the DPS tank. It should still combo well with applied force, but if it doesn't work for you, then tinker around with a dueling partner until you find something that does work well. Believe me, a scrapper can win that matchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: It should still combo well with applied force, but if it doesn't work for you, then tinker around with a dueling partner until you find something that does work well. Believe me, a scrapper can win that matchup. I will inform Hydragean of that and see if he proceeds to fall over dead 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hederrain.9207 said: Cant miss something you never had to begin with. Nice link by the way. Did you see it yourself even before posting it? Spoiler: its not even complete/correct Did you read it? Otherwise you would have seen the point. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 29 minutes ago, shion.2084 said: There's nothing with enough stability to be able to deal with the ridiculous number of stuns that I have access too. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defense_Field ?Applied Force - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)? Quote flashbang Consider if you used flashbang and it didn't help you:>You whiffed the dodge to begin with >The warrior had stability which means they likely recently disabled you It's not that you're being thrown into a situation with no agency, you're being punished for getting disabled- Quote someone gave them resistance -and not knowing the traits that dictate what boons they get and where. Quote It is the specific aspects of how they are viable. Quote I think it'd be less painful if you just gave them a 20K attack and get it over with. You sure you want this as the alternative? I think it would be easier if you just learned the rhythm of their stability/resistance instead of getting clipped by 20ks. We already tried this. People hated it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Did you read it? Otherwise you would have seen the point. 🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Hederrain.9207 said: 🤦♂️ Ah, so you indeed just don't get the point. Cool, have a good day mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hederrain.9207 said: "Warrior being OP" Forum: Warrior is garbage pls buff! (or at least dont nerf!). Its easiest class to play against, its a free kill! It's not overpowered. I posit people are just mad/disappointed they're being stunlocked after years of not getting stunlocked because their traits held their hand out of every situation where a warrior made their way into melee range. Even the condi longbow point hold build dies to direct damage. Edited December 9, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Ah, so you indeed just don't get the point. Cool, have a good day mate. Throws nonsense, thinks he has a point... aight, cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: It's not overpowered. I posit people are just mad/disappointed they're being stunlocked after years of not getting stunlocked because their traits held their hand out of every situation where a warrior made their way into melee range. no, we're used to ele's 🙂. So getting utunlocked out is something we're well use to 🙂. Maybe they just didn't want more sources of it 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defense_Field ?Applied Force - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)? Consider if you used flashbang and it didn't help you:>You whiffed the dodge to begin with >The warrior had stability which means they likely recently disabled you It's not that you're being thrown into a situation with no agency, you're being punished for getting disabled- -and not knowing the traits that dictate what boons they get and where. You sure you want this as the alternative? I think it would be easier if you just learned the rhythm of their stability/resistance instead of getting clipped by 20ks. We already tried this. People hated it. Yeah I ran Ft with juggernaut and applied force. You see with applied force you have to keep your might above 10 if I recall... and then you have to apply might after the ten second threshold to get the stability. So to get that consistently my theory was that running an FT build might help. The issue is that then I couldn't do any damage that could get through the warrior sustain while keeping FT up for the might and stability. Umm hard to explain if you don't play engi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, shion.2084 said: no, we're used to ele's 🙂. So getting utunlocked out is something we're well use to 🙂. Maybe they just didn't want more sources of it 🙂 Its either that, rework the warrior skills, or enable oneshot. Unless you have a better solution that isn't just shorthand for "nerf?" Personally I like not getting hatemail over hitting someone for 20k, and instead getting hatemail cause I counted stunbreaks and put someone in the blender when they were all spent for mostly 7 damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, shion.2084 said: Yeah I ran Ft with juggernaut and applied force. You see with applied force you have to keep your might above 10 if I recall... and then you have to apply might after the ten second threshold to get the stability. So to get that consistently my theory was that running an FT build might help. The issue is that then I couldn't do any damage that could get through the warrior sustain while keeping FT up for the might and stability. Umm hard to explain if you don't play engi. NOte, I could make a build who's sole purpose was to be able to not win fights with a warrior but stay on point (though against the condition version that might be hard). But it would be useless for any other purpose and extraordinarily lame to play. I'd also never take a cap if the warrior was already on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: It's not overpowered. I posit people are just mad/disappointed they're being stunlocked after years of not getting stunlocked because their traits held their hand out of every situation where a warrior made their way into melee range. You mean, warrior hands being held now by overbuffed traits? Then you would be right. (And spammable FC has always been an eyesore and the main reason why its so kittenous to fight against) Who said hammer spb is the only problem? Its the entire SPB now Edited December 9, 2022 by Hederrain.9207 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Its either that, rework the warrior skills, or enable oneshot. Unless you have a better solution that isn't just shorthand for "nerf?" Personally I like not getting hatemail over hitting someone for 20k, and instead getting hatemail cause I counted stunbreaks and put someone in the blender when they were all spent for mostly 7 damage. I think the issue lies in the sheer amount of CC that exists from all sources. And for engi at least to take a reliable and consistent source of stability, means you aren't going to be effective given the tradeoffs. So I think the answer is to reduce access to CC spam in general. IN a cumulative group it should be possible to CC lock someone, but not from a single source in a v1. IN that case CC should allow a shot in, interrupt a critical skill... but generally not chain you into uselessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, shion.2084 said: I think the issue lies in the sheer amount of CC that exists from all sources. And for engi at least to take a reliable and consistent source of stability, means you aren't going to be effective given the tradeoffs. So I think the answer is to reduce access to CC spam in general. IN a cumulative group it should be possible to CC lock someone, but not from a single source in a v1. IN that case CC should allow a shot in, interrupt a critical skill... but generally not chain you into uselessness. For instance if you look at how engis do CC, they have a trait that lets them apply vulnerability/weakness when they do it. So it stuns, does some damage, then sets you up for a while to be slightly weaker and take more damage. That's not a bad model. There are some nasty things you can do with engi CC as well. but the above aspect has promise. I mean if your legitimately looking for suggestions about how to rework things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now