Tag Watchers

[jballstars.8219]

Why does ANET continue to allow tag watching to be a thing?  Followers should have to be approved.   Furthermore followers should not be able to see our location while we are in WvW.   My followers list is way too long to go through and block every alt, tag watching try hard.   Nor should I have to , turn that off in WvW.   We shouldn’t have to go offline to avoid the cheaters.   If it isn’t tag watching , there are other try hards who use alt accounts to sit on maps and keep an eye on us.  Are they that bent on winning that this all seems acceptable?  Guilds like mine who don’t play the game this way are ridiculed, lambasted, called names, bullied and hunted.  I welcome these try hards to try and chase us off , almost 5 years they haven’t yet. Alts que’ing our maps by guilds we are matched up against,  FairPlay is becoming more and more rare.   No game is this serious , nor the rewards that great to try this hard, yet they do it and at the expense of others every day while the FairPlay folk suffer and are persecuted by elitist toxic try hards. 

[Orryns Angel.5348]

Nicely stated.  I play this game for FUN.  Why should I as the player have to jump through hoops for a fair match up.  Hopefully this issue can be resolved.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

Just add it to the pile of seemingly simple to fix things in WvW that is is harder than releasing multiple full PvE expansions.

[Chaba.5410]

Watching a map and asking scouts in team chat for if they've spotted a certain guild is just as effective.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Guybrush.4762]

I do think we should not be able to see which specific WvW map a person currently plays in ; it feels like an unintentional tactic to me. Listing their location as a generic "World vs World" should do the trick, though as often with UI changes it may be easier said than done. Also, correct me if I am wrong but I don't think blocking someone prevent them to see where you are in the game which is not really ideal for cases when a player harasses another player to say the least.

That being said I would like to comment on the fact that this practice was associated with tryhards in the original post. To my knowledge it is as often if not more often used by casuals squads to avoid a blob they don't want to encounter.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[Ego.4961]

  

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Watching a map and asking scouts in team chat for if they've spotted a certain guild is just as effective.

 

Definitely not "just as effective"....yes, not even remotely....but at least that is something that's honest effort.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Ego.4961
quote didn't save.

[Corabelle.3254]

5 hours ago, jballstars.8219 said:

Why does ANET continue to allow tag watching to be a thing?  Followers should have to be approved.   Furthermore followers should not be able to see our location while we are in WvW.   My followers list is way too long to go through and block every alt, tag watching try hard.   Nor should I have to , turn that off in WvW.   We shouldn’t have to go offline to avoid the cheaters.   If it isn’t tag watching , there are other try hards who use alt accounts to sit on maps and keep an eye on us.  Are they that bent on winning that this all seems acceptable?  Guilds like mine who don’t play the game this way are ridiculed, lambasted, called names, bullied and hunted.  I welcome these try hards to try and chase us off , almost 5 years they haven’t yet. Alts que’ing our maps by guilds we are matched up against,  FairPlay is becoming more and more rare.   No game is this serious , nor the rewards that great to try this hard, yet they do it and at the expense of others every day while the FairPlay folk suffer and are persecuted by elitist toxic try hards. 

Aren't you the VIP commander that had the Mag cloud chase and farm across every single map for 4 hours straight last week?

Also, 1

Edited December 8, 2022 by Corabelle.3254

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Ego.4961 said:

  Definitely not "just as effective"....yes, not even remotely....but at least that is something that's honest effort.

With a finite number of maps and possible routes coupled with a good in-squad scout whose role is to hop maps ahead of time and with past experience facing particular guilds and having learned their patterns, most behaviors are entirely predictable.  So yes, even remotely "just as effective" and can be mistaken for tag watching.   I guess "map politics" can be difficult for some to envision.

Don't blame others just because your guild is the only large content available to fight.  Players tend to want fights when they enter PvP maps.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, jballstars.8219 said:

Why does ANET continue to allow tag watching to be a thing?  Followers should have to be approved.   Furthermore followers should not be able to see our location while we are in WvW.   My followers list is way too long to go through and block every alt, tag watching try hard.   Nor should I have to , turn that off in WvW.   We shouldn’t have to go offline to avoid the cheaters.   If it isn’t tag watching , there are other try hards who use alt accounts to sit on maps and keep an eye on us.  Are they that bent on winning that this all seems acceptable?  Guilds like mine who don’t play the game this way are ridiculed, lambasted, called names, bullied and hunted.  I welcome these try hards to try and chase us off , almost 5 years they haven’t yet. Alts que’ing our maps by guilds we are matched up against,  FairPlay is becoming more and more rare.   No game is this serious , nor the rewards that great to try this hard, yet they do it and at the expense of others every day while the FairPlay folk suffer and are persecuted by elitist toxic try hards. 

 

Could see a change where followers can't see a players location. Or are you referring also to the friend's list? Might still see it there as well but that wouldn't prevent alt accounts from checking maps by dropping into them. I agree its kind of sad some people feel they need to use that tactic just to try and boost their own ego that they are actually 'good' at the game. Its like those people that feel its ok to use cheat codes while in single player games. Never quite understood that thought even when asking them directly why they did it. It seems to always be the same answer, well the game didn't prevent me from doing so. Yeah, don't get it. 

So yes though I don't think it would solve the overall issue could see a change to the followers, and friends, to have the WvW logic just state to anyone looking that if a player was in WvW they were just in WvW but not a particular map. +1 from me.

[Chaba.5410]

37 minutes ago, Corabelle.3254 said:

Aren't you the VIP commander that had the Mag cloud chase and farm across every single map for 4 hours straight last week?

Also, 1

IDK, TLC (not Mag) has been hunting VIP the past two matches and we don't use any of the cheap tactics the OP listed.  It's not really needed.

[MedievalThings.5417]

TC routinely has people running into walls and trolling everything in sight.  Only one guild parks tag watching alts at spawn EVERY single match, even when we're qued.  That character never logs in for anything, never does any playing, but if we're fighting OP guild, they are on nearly 24/7 at spawn somewhere trying to hide off to one side.

 

Personally, I don't care that they need a crutch to fight 25 people with their map que.  What I don't get is why it is allowed for them to take up a playing space when we're qued.  Imagine if everyone just did this with free to play accounts.  Want to take smc?  Just start logging alts in to the enemy server until you take up like half of them.  Now your group doesn't have to fight a map que because you know your side has 40-50 people afk at their spawn.

 

I really hope this isn't what anet wants wvw to turn into.

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

With a finite number of maps and possible routes coupled with a good in-squad scout whose role is to hop maps ahead of time and with past experience facing particular guilds and having learned their patterns, most behaviors are entirely predictable.  So yes, even remotely "just as effective" and can be mistaken for tag watching.   I guess "map politics" can be difficult for some to envision.

Don't blame others just because your guild is the only large content available to fight.  Players tend to want fights when they enter PvP maps.

 

To be fair though after cycling thru various rotations have seen some links where people will ask if a guild has been seen and then they get replies from people let me check on my other account and then report back that the one in question is on 'x' map. That's taking it a bit far and leaves a bad taste. I agree scouts doing their job can easily track an enemy zerg and that's fine, but the whole you created an alt account just to follow other groups. That's pretty sad. Have seen games apply lockout timers on accounts accessing from the same MAC address to block that kind of thing. Not saying that here and instead try a lighter touch even if it just discourages people from the tactic would be fine.

Not even going into the politics of guild x or guild y, if just changing the logic in the friends list helps in that, sure. People that are friends already can use team chat or whispers to ask their friends what map they are on even if they aren't already on voice together. People that legit have other players on their friends list to follow a tag to group with them can also just do the same, they just need to know that they are out in WvW running if that is the only time they get on to play. Once we get to the WR project I am assuming they will also include an Alliance only channel for people to broadcast in. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

TC routinely has people running into walls and trolling everything in sight.  Only one guild parks tag watching alts at spawn EVERY single match, even when we're qued.  That character never logs in for anything, never does any playing, but if we're fighting OP guild, they are on nearly 24/7 at spawn somewhere trying to hide off to one side.

 

Personally, I don't care that they need a crutch to fight 25 people with their map que.  What I don't get is why it is allowed for them to take up a playing space when we're qued.  Imagine if everyone just did this with free to play accounts.  Want to take smc?  Just start logging alts in to the enemy server until you take up like half of them.  Now your group doesn't have to fight a map que because you know your side has 40-50 people afk at their spawn.

 

I really hope this isn't what anet wants wvw to turn into.

 

Its funny how many issues keep getting tied back to people sitting at spawn. Go round and round about a more aggressive kick policy while people are in a 'spawn area', buts that's off topic.

[Chaba.5410]

1 minute ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

To be fair though after cycling thru various rotations have seen some links where people will ask if a guild has been seen and then they get replies from people let me check on my other account and then report back that the one in question is on 'x' map.

As someone who asks teamchat if anyone has seen X guild often and for quite awhile, I have yet to encounter anyone who says they'll check on their other account.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but I question that it happens at the frequency and size where it's a serious problem.  Maybe you found the one guy that does it?

It's still not clear to me what real advantage one is getting by using tag watching over predictable behaviors and good scouting.

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

IDK, TLC (not Mag) has been hunting VIP the past two matches and we don't use any of the cheap tactics the OP listed.  It's not really needed.

 

Hunting a guild is fine, using scouts is fine. The whole alt account.....if I hadn't seen people state in team chat I might think would someone use that?...but they do. Outside of login timeouts there is not really anything for ANet to do there but they can adjust the friends/followers logic so people that do look to abuse the system will need to be like everyone else and just play the game and scout.

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

As someone who asks teamchat if anyone has seen X guild often and for quite awhile, I have yet to encounter anyone who says they'll check on their other account.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but I question that it happens at the frequency and size where it's a serious problem.  Maybe you found the one guy that does it?

It's still not clear to me what real advantage one is getting by using tag watching over predictable behaviors and good scouting.

 

Agree I don't understand them myself, and when someone asks in Team chat if a guild has been seen if I am running on a scout build will be more than happy to go looking because it can be fun while roaming to torment the other side's zerg and help lure them into an ambush by myside. I don't like to agree to ideas when it seems like we are coding for bad eggs, but when thinking about the followers/friends list, does it really help people group in WvW or is just knowing they are in WvW fine for the same purpose?

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Orryns Angel.5348 said:

Nicely stated.  I play this game for FUN.  Why should I as the player have to jump through hoops for a fair match up.  Hopefully this issue can be resolved.

 

 

🙂 I understand your intent, but I would caution on a fair matchup. The only way we would be able to achieve a 'fair' match up is for ANet to kick people from maps when numbers were not in balance and that would also be easily abused. Not what you meant I know but for the sake of just forum surfers I don't think we could ever see a fair matchup. That's called sPvP and that's still stretching it. 

[AlCapwnd.7834]

If you have an Alt that just runs into walls to report back to your main accounts wvw server where the enemy is, you're just a sad person. If you see the same person afk running into a wall and using candy corn gobbler for hours, every single day. That account should definitely get a 7 day ban for the first offense and progressively longer bans the more they get reported. Alls i can say is that if you see this happening and you're that worried about tag watching. Have everyone in the guild or map report the player. EZ PZ. THEN, YOU CAN HOPE anet actually investigates the reports and takes appropriate action.

[Chaba.5410]

31 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Hunting a guild is fine, using scouts is fine. The whole alt account.....if I hadn't seen people state in team chat I might think would someone use that?...but they do. Outside of login timeouts there is not really anything for ANet to do there but they can adjust the friends/followers logic so people that do look to abuse the system will need to be like everyone else and just play the game and scout.

The real question is, how does one really know an account on a follower's list is a tag watcher or being used in that manner?  Correlation doesn't always prove causality.  Anet could make adjustments to how that friends list works tomorrow and I bet this guild would still have the same experience.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[TheGrimm.5624]

28 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

The real question is, how does one really know an account on a follower's list is a tag watcher or being used in that manner?  Correlation doesn't always prove causality.  Anet could make adjustments to how that friends list works tomorrow and I bet this guild would still have the same experience.

 

Don't disagree here.  It also doesn't mean, and to be fair if they exist, that said alt accounts wouldn't just go scout or use team chat to spy like a regular scout would looking for people. But it would make them have to try harder than they would today using just the follower/friends list to get real time data. Hence why I am trying to think about how people use it legit today and would it really impact them if it was changed? I don't get into WvW because I see someone out there, I go if I was going to go anyway if I can group with others all the good. So not sure if that is coloring what I am thinking about versus others that might just go out if they see a tag they know and would that impact their play or just knowing they were in WvW would be enough to go by. Need to see if we get any feedback from forums goers that use the listing to make decisions on if they go out due to others out running to get a better picture. 

[jballstars.8219]

5 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Watching a map and asking scouts in team chat for if they've spotted a certain guild is just as effective.

They do that as well, why be a competent commander or have any situational awareness, I can have an alt.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

THEN, YOU CAN HOPE anet actually investigates the reports and takes appropriate action.

 

lol, see and that's why I would never be allowed to be a GM. The abuse of power would be massive. 'Hello Customer Service, how can I help you today?' 'One of your GMs has my account locked down, naked and sitting in the middle of an enemy keep and people are just throwing toilet rolls at me!' 'How do you know it was a GM that did it?' 'Because they left an avatar here pointing and laughing and they are wearing an ANet tag.' 'Oh so you were AFK all that time, that was reported an hour ago, sorry we are going to have to temp ban your account now, thanks for the call! Bye!'

And so goes my chances of ever being a GM. Oh well Forum Wars it is it seems.

Edited December 8, 2022 by TheGrimm.5624
roles and rolls not the same, auto spell check for the loss

[jballstars.8219]

3 hours ago, Corabelle.3254 said:

Aren't you the VIP commander that had the Mag cloud chase and farm across every single map for 4 hours straight last week?

Also, 1

I am in fact that commander who was chased and hunted, farmed, that is perspective, but we aren't running from any fights like a wanna be fight guild.   I will string them along to get that fight out of that cloud though.

Edited December 8, 2022 by jballstars.8219

[jballstars.8219]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

lol, see and that's why I would never be allowed to be a GM. The abuse of power would be massive. 'Hello Customer Service, how can I help you today?' 'One of your GMs has my account locked down, naked and sitting in the middle of an enemy keep and people are just throwing toilet roles at me!' 'How do you know it was a GM that did it?' 'Because they left an avatar here pointing and laughing and they are wearing an ANet tag.' 'Oh so you were AFK all that time, that was reported an hour ago, sorry we are going to have to temp ban your account now, thanks for the call! Bye!'

And so goes my chances of ever being a GM. Oh well Forum Wars it is it seems.

You got my vote.....

Edited December 8, 2022 by jballstars.8219

[AlCapwnd.7834]

Just now, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

lol, see and that's why I would never be allowed to be a GM. The abuse of power would be massive. 'Hello Customer Service, how can I help you today?' 'One of your GMs has my account locked down, naked and sitting in the middle of an enemy keep and people are just throwing toilet roles at me!' 'How do you know it was a GM that did it?' 'Because they left an avatar here pointing and laughing and they are wearing an ANet tag.' 'Oh so you were AFK all that time, that was reported an hour ago, sorry we are going to have to temp ban your account now, thanks for the call! Bye!'

And so goes my chances of ever being a GM. Oh well Forum Wars it is it seems.

I mean. I heard they do it to PVE AFK farming people. The will move them away from the spawn area. If they dont move they kick them.

 

PVE and "Competitive" are different IMO. If its an ALT just trolling a guild or AFKing to spy or take up spots on that server the punishment should be more sever. SLING THE TOILET PAPER!