What's the point of playing Bladesworn other than the theme?

[Zekent.3652]

Now that PvP Spellbreaker is back, doing better now that (oh surprise) the Shout abuse got nerfed, exposed the lacking parts of a spec that had an unhealthy gameplay abuse.

For PvE, spellbreaker is usually just better, mostly because of Bladesworn's stationary gameplay, Full Counter is great and you can do even more damage than a bladesworn on that small dps gap if you proc FC which is not hard depending on the bossfight. Bladesworn used to make sense when it was the strongest power dps spec, and being that stationary was a valid excuse, but not anymore, there are better elite specs just because of the fact that they're not stationary and they're giving the same results or just doing better, spellbreaker has a build that does some good dps and also provides some great amount of CC and a really high uptime of self stability, with a really small dps gap that can be surpassed with some Full Counter procs.

This is not a "Bladesworn hate" post, i was calling the changes of Bladesworn since beta pretty good, it used to be worse, even more stationary gameplay, an almost perma selfroot gameplay but slower, now it's just better, but the spec still has it's problems, doesn't offers anything different than the other elite specs, it's just another bruiser dps spec like the others but spellbreaker provides better tools, like great CC, Full Counter which is like a 3rd dodge bar with a pretty good reward, Berserker provides a good condi damage and it's also one of the bests quickness dps at the momment. 

No one really hates Bladesworn, we just want it to be better, on a healthy way.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[eXruina.4956]

in pve, i truly find the aesthetic and gameplay fun. even if its inconsistent and unreliable in more difficult content compared to its competition, its still very rewarding and satisfying to play, moreso if you can perform well despite the odds.

 

in competitive, they took away its damage, high risk, unrewarding, unfun. even when it was strong it was still garbage compared to everything else that was out there.

[Dadnir.5038]

Even if it's difficult to understand there are some people that do like Bladesworn gameplay. The spec exist for their enjoyment, let's just respect this much 🙂

[eXruina.4956]

Just now, Dadnir.5038 said:

there are some people that do like Bladesworn gameplay.

*waves 👋

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Cool theme aside, we didn't need a third DPS spec in a row. This is the ramification of that.

[eXruina.4956]

ah but to answer your question, no, the introduction of bladesworn actually makes no sense,

 

it was nowhere close to what warriors were asking for, they were asking for ranged dps, healing and boon support. bladesworn was neither.

 

not to mention all 3 warrior elite specializations are melee dps specs.

[Kodama.6453]

29 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Cool theme aside, we didn't need a third DPS spec in a row. This is the ramification of that.

This is the only thing that strange for me about bladesworn. I like the spec, but what warrior truly needed was a support spec. Not another dps.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

This is the only thing that strange for me about bladesworn. I like the spec, but what warrior truly needed was a support spec. Not another dps.

Exactly, now we have 3 elite specs vying for the power dps role.

[Dadnir.5038]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Exactly, now we have 3 elite specs vying for the power dps role.

At least Berserker try to vye for the condi dps role. It even work... Somehow. (Ok, it could be way better... but dps wise, it's there)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

At least Berserker try to vye for the condi dps role. It even work... Somehow. (Ok, it could be way better... but dps wise, it's there)

I think that if they made Combustive Shot proc every second instead of every 3s, then Core condi would bench fairly high without needing to take Berserker, but then they've yet to really touch that skill.

[Infusion.7149]

In before the "bladesworn is busted in speedrun groups because you can provide permaquickness while stacking them" people.

For the vast majority of players it is only worth it over spellbreaker on KC and Vale Guardian due to +35% power bonus on those bosses. If you can burst hard enough and precharge DT in between phases it makes big numbers.

[Jobber.6348]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Cool theme aside, we didn't need a third DPS spec in a row. This is the ramification of that.

UNGA BUNGA WARRIOR DO DAMAGE. THURK FOUND STICK WITH CLOTH, IT HELP GROUP MAYBE? UNDERSTOOD, THURK WILL BRING STICK WITH CLOTH AND UNGA BUNGA. 🙂 THURK DO GOOD.

Jokes aside, BSW at times feels like it's going against the core principles of being a Warrior. That Dragon Slash thing is so unwarrior like idk what to say. There's a reason why Killshot is bad and Dragon Slash further proves why. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's the rooting.) 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

UNGA BUNGA WARRIOR DO DAMAGE. THURK FOUND STICK WITH CLOTH, IT HELP GROUP MAYBE? UNDERSTOOD, THURK WILL BRING STICK WITH CLOTH AND UNGA BUNGA. 🙂 THURK DO GOOD.

Jokes aside, BSW at times feels like it's going against the core principles of being a Warrior. That Dragon Slash thing is so unwarrior like idk what to say. There's a reason why Killshot is bad and Dragon Slash further proves why. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's the rooting.) 

That goes to the heart of many of our criticisms during the beta. It took all the parts that are BAD about core warrior and made them features.

[Infusion.7149]

It just irks me that the scaling of bladesworn DT in PVP/WVW is so poor to this day. A melee attack that takes that long to charge should do arc divider or at least core burst level damage.

[eXruina.4956]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That goes to the heart of many of our criticisms during the beta. It took all the parts that are BAD about core warrior and made them features.

this was what i didn't get, it felt very intentional.

[eXruina.4956]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It just irks me that the scaling of bladesworn DT in PVP/WVW is so poor to this day. A melee attack that takes that long to charge should do arc divider or at least core burst level damage.

our damage output is wrong all over the place, just compare tier 1 bursts to tier 3 bursts. they royally kittened them all up, and years have passed now. not to mention they broke all that all in 1 patch, and it was all just number changes. they just have no intention of correcting it.

 

bladesworn was bad in competitive because the damage wasn't there, and damage was bladesworn's class feature. it literally made you jump through hoops for nothing. where it should have been a balance of risk and reward. in the end it was made to be all risk and no reward.

Edited December 19, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, eXruina.4956 said:

our damage output is wrong all over the place, just compare tier 1 bursts to tier 3 bursts. they royally kittened them all up, and years have passed now. not to mention they broke all that all in 1 patch, and it was all just number changes. they just have no intention of correcting it.

 

bladesworn was bad in competitive because the damage wasn't there, and damage was bladesworn's class feature. it literally made you jump through hoops for nothing. where it should have been a balance of risk and reward. in the end it was made to be all risk and no reward.

That's not exactly true...BS could to a ton of dmg when it had high might (still can in fact). You could get DS to hit for 10k in PvP if you got all your mods and might to line up. 

 

The problem is that you need to run FGJ to do that, and that eats up a valuable utility slot that you ideally would be using for a defensive skill. You can still get benefit from vigorous shouts, but now that TR no longer restores shouts, you have less might and less healing. Now that shoutsworn isn't as viable anymore and warriors are kinda being shunted toward defense for their sustain, bladesworn could very much use some adjustments to some of it's damage, especially blooming fire and dragon trigger.

 

The other problem is that DT is designed around being able to do enormous damage; it makes little sense to suffer the self root and charge time otherwise. But since that level of damage would one-shot people and be totally toxic in PvP, we've got "normal" damage numbers on DT that don't justify the root and charge time.

 

Both min and max values of DT should be increased, but especially the min values. This would allow BS to be able to use "quickie" DT attacks that would still be effective while allowing the BS to be more fluid and mobile in combat.

 

Ideally, I think the coefficients (min-max) should look something like this:

DS-Force: 1.0-2.0

DS-Boost: 0.75-1.75

DS-Reach: 0.6-1.6

 

One of the things holding the spec back, too, is the fact that Unyielding Dragon is bloated AF. Stack might, become unblockable, ignore blind, and add CC all in one trait? I can't think of anything similar in the rest of the game. Unfortunately, those are all things BS needs to have a shadow of a chance in competitive. These attributes should be distributed throughout the trait line (and/or added to core warrior trait lines) so that BS can actually be balanced without having to assume that it's going to be getting all of the goodies from UD.

[artharon.9276]

bladesworns are always on top of my arcdps list, even underwater, so why not?

[Jobber.6348]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That goes to the heart of many of our criticisms during the beta. It took all the parts that are BAD about core warrior and made them features.

Gonna say some controversial kitten here but: 

I wouldn't mind Warrior getting more Power damage back in competitive in exchange for nerfing Rampage. I'm honestly sick of needing to use Rampage as a clutch, or seeing Warriors rely on Rampage as a clutch. 

[Mungrul.9358]

11 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think that if they made Combustive Shot proc every second instead of every 3s, then Core condi would bench fairly high without needing to take Berserker, but then they've yet to really touch that skill.

 

Even that is overly conservative. I've gotten used to Harbinger recently, and for condi, it's positively stupid how much better it is than the best condi option for warrior. If you go full Well spec, ALL of your conditions do double damage per tick, and virtually every attack dishes out more than one condition.

It's ridiculous.

 

I'm not a necro player by anyone's standard, yet my Harbinger build lets me got toe-to-toe with a lot of champions on my own, and win.

[eXruina.4956]

@CalmTheStorm.2364  to get to that measly 10k damage you have to, accumulate adrenaline, have 25 might, sit there for a full charge taking hits, praying not to get interrupted or immobilized out of your dragon slash, or pray you don't outright get killed.

 

and if you hit into protection, weakness, armor *shrugs.

 

meanwhile whats 10k or more damage for another class, almost instant, no telegraphs, no windup, at 1.2k or more range. safe for the most part with little to no risk and with minimal commitment.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It just irks me that the scaling of bladesworn DT in PVP/WVW is so poor to this day. A melee attack that takes that long to charge should do arc divider or at least core burst level damage.

I know right? Especially since they took all the sources of stability out of BSW, it is now much harder and riskier to pull off. Seems like a missed opportunity to buff the damage.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, artharon.9276 said:

bladesworns are always on top of my arcdps list, even underwater, so why not?

That's PvE. Their damage from DS is much lower in the other game modes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Gonna say some controversial kitten here but: 

I wouldn't mind Warrior getting more Power damage back in competitive in exchange for nerfing Rampage. I'm honestly sick of needing to use Rampage as a clutch, or seeing Warriors rely on Rampage as a clutch. 

How much is that because Signet of Rage and Battle Standard of limited use though? It isn't that Rampage needs a nerf, it's that the other elites need either buffs or more use cases. Personally, I run Battle Standard out in WvW to stomp from afar or rez my guildmates.

Best warrior elite though is Headbutt. Most versatile elite skill in the game right there.

[Zekent.3652]

52 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How much is that because Signet of Rage and Battle Standard of limited use though? It isn't that Rampage needs a nerf, it's that the other elites need either buffs or more use cases. Personally, I run Battle Standard out in WvW to stomp from afar or rez my guildmates.

Best warrior elite though is Headbutt. Most versatile elite skill in the game right there.

At least we're not Guardians, Renewal Focus is just their BiS elite in most of competitive content, and yeah, headbutt in WvW has an insane synergy with Lesser EP, but it's soooooooo telegraphed and easy to rupt, and getting rupt on it makes your skill CD to full CD💀

Edited December 19, 2022 by Zizekent.2398