WvW population

[KeyOrion.9506]

1 hour ago, neven.3785 said:

You are overinflating how impactful alt accounts are.  If someone regularly plays with a second group on a seperate account, they are not causing a "false" result, they are playing hours in wvw for that team.  Your example of mag is false, organized groups tend log off if there is nothing to do because an enemy (or both) chooses to sit out, they don't all switch to second accounts and try to mess up other matchups.

 

Originally I made my second account because I liked roaming with a very small guild on JQ who was linked to our server.  Relinking seperated us, so I purchased a new account to keep playing with them.  I still prefer organized guild raiding in wvw with my main guild.  Eventually the roaming guild died and the account became innactive.  Then another guild I ran 1-2 times a week with transfered off my main server, so I moved that second account to play with them.  Overall my time is still 90% on my primary account.  Being an extra body in a guild who doesn't bother with objectives will mean I am not impactful at all to a matchup scoring, but definately helps the guild out since they run 10-15.   This is just my personal example, but yet you are trying to make it sound sinister and negative.

 

We all know there is population balance issues, they have existed for 10 years.  It's not alt accounts causing it, it's the weighting they count off hour play hours compared to prime time NA, should never be 1 to 1.  If the server population algorithms and scoring both took it into acccount, then you would see less impact from overcompensating off hours and more NA slots open.  There is no point doing this to the servers now, just enable alliances permanently and work on balancing those properly instead.

There's three to four major guilds players, that have three to four seperate accounts PER player, roughly 50 to 75 players at the moment, who "server" jump because they have made it possible to make sure all those players have alternate accounts.  These players, when they don't have anything to fight, can literally jump to another server, play on the alt accounts as a guild.  That is a false positive for # of players in that game mode, since it's a number of players just switching accounts to play WvW.  They been Twitching, of how they keep their guild "active" and fighting by just jumping to their alt accounts on the other servers.

[neven.3785]

Not saying I endorse it personally, but that won't impact much overall, they tend to find groups to fight vs ktrain maps, then log off.   They may flip some objectives, but they don't stick around to hold them.  The wvw play hours they log for that server while doing it is insignificant towards a week long 24/7 matchup.  Likely not their entire raid are alt accounts either.

[Mabi black.1824]

6 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

one can only look forward to alliances i guess.

for me the topic "Multiaccount-Users" are getting a serious problem in WvW.

Like just as example the Maguuma guys login, take all structures, demotivate their enemy to play at all and then logon Alt-Accounts to also mess in other peoples matchups.

Is that a wvw I want to play in the future where in my matchup suddenly people from other alliances cause a false matchup result?

Is this what i want to give my time for.

Is it time for community to identify its own cause of distrubance?

It is right to discuss this too. In my opinion, things will be better with alliances. Let's try to give an example, even if a player has 3 accounts and hypothetically has 3 different alliances, all 3 will be randomly destined in any case. Of course he can still choose which one he prefers to play with, but it will all be out of his control. Because it will never know which server it ends up on and what other alliances it ends with.

If we add that there may be a ranking to climb and with some interesting prizes to reach, that player should concentrate his hours of play with only 1 of his 3 accounts, and not break the jerks in other games.

[Mabi black.1824]

14 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

"Rewards/Tournaments/Leaderboards

If—and that is a big if—we do add/change rewards to be tied more directly to World success in matches, those changes would come later. The plan is to ship the core system and get all the kinks worked out and the teams balanced before we start trying to find new ways to give rewards or do tournaments or anything of that kind.

Thank you for sharing this communication from Anet that I did not know. This feedback of yours makes it even more necessary to talk about it, in order to avoid that '' if '' . Rewards and rankings to climb and a season to play, do not have to be a '' if'' must be a certainty, to avoid WWW being like EOTM.

Can we calmly and kindly discuss this among ourselves and maybe even with someone from development? What do we want to keep track of in the rankings in the near future? the servers ? It will be a problem to solve because their composition will change continuously every 8 weeks.

Alliances? It will be a problem to be solved because the alliances will all be numerically different. mine has 150 players yours has 500 players. unless only full alliances appear on the leaderboard. Or let's consider a kind of multiplier, which allows My Alliance to compete with your alliance with equal opportunities.

We should talk about it to better understand what we want. If you send live alliances without a seasonal logic, without keeping track of a ranking to climb, and maybe we talk about it after 1 year from alliances and wr, it means having wvw as eotm for a whole year. It may be an unpleasant experience for many players.

[Tryfan.1457]

Given the information we have so far, I can't see how alliances won't just amplify all the current problems up to 11. I have zero faith that ANet knows either, given they fail at almost everything else in wvw. The alliances are going to deliberately minimize time zone coverage because trying to cover 24 hours will just dilute availability with the number limits. The strongest will band together. The ability to recruit more members from up and coming players will be crippled. All the communities will become isolated and inward focused. Alliances outside of the top will just crumble into complete inactivity.

 

I seriously think they should abandon the idea completely and go back to trying to fix what they have now. It's going to be a disaster, not a solution.

 

[Custodio.6134]

4 hours ago, neven.3785 said:

  The wvw play hours they log for that server while doing it is insignificant towards a week long 24/7 matchup.  Likely not their entire raid are alt accounts either.

not only that, but if you´re playing on a alt-account on a different server, you won´t count to the play-hours on your "main" server. Just because of the simple fact, that you cannot play on 2 accounts simultaneously. 

The only point of impact alt-accounts have is, if every player decides to play a full match on their alt directly after relink. And even then, the number of players that frequently do that is so low, that this has almost no impact on the matches at all. 

[Iskras Femme.1693]

21 hours ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

Except they are Know it Alls and won't listen.

Friend

 

It's one thing to listen to the community, it's another to make changes suggested by the community in accordance with development schedules. Believe me, changing things in a game, depending, can take up to many years, as they involve very large structures and a lot of manpower. From what I've read and understood on the Forum, including topics opened by ArenaNet, is that 'something is really happening'.

 

We will see.

[Dayra.7405]

23 hours ago, Tryfan.1457 said:

ANet's brilliant decision to open Maguuma to transfer

When I read this, i imagine something like this 🙂 :

Monday morning, 12.12.2022, close to the end of the weekly team meeting in a wintersun flooded office in ANet HQ in  Bellevue, nearly everyone already looks a bit sleepy after 1h of the meeting:

ANet-Game-Leader: Let's talk about the last WvW-beta and the player reactions to it. Please Report!

WvW-Lead and Crew in personal union: (shrinks in his seat) I must admit I was a bit late in anouncing the beta, also I run into the bulk-email stop, so I couldn't notify all players of the beta, I fear this resulted in many stayed absend, the data we collected are a mess. And many player in the forum complained about the imbalance of the beta. I don't know what to do now.

ANet-Game-Leader: That's a desaster, now that you got 25% percent of your time just for WvW, I want positive results. How can we convince the Player that your system is much better than the old.

WvW-Lead and Crew: Hm, I don't know, still I don't really have the resources to make it better than the old system

Someone in the 2nd row: Hm, if we cannot make the new system better, maybe we can make the old one worser.

WvW-Lead and Crew: Looks like Maguuma Yak's Bend got quite strong due to transfers to Yak Bend, but the system will close them before to much imbalance will occur.

ANet-Game-Leader: This is your chance, take it!

WvW-Lead and Crew: Hm, yeah, I could keep Yak's Bend open, additionally I can open Maguuma and then the player will see what real imbalance is.

Community-Lead: That's a plan, I guess in a few days no one on the forum will talk about the beta anymore, anyone will complain about the imbalance caused by the evil maguma player.

ANet-Game-Leader: So we have a decision. Do your work!

 

As funny as I find this imagination, I doubt it happend.

 

So lets try another version:

Monday morning, 19.12.2022, AWS Server Room where ANet runs the NA-Server:
LED's on the WvW-population server start flashing wild as an Evil Genius Maguuma Hacker hacks into the system.

Maguuma Hacker: Hehe, today I will open Maguuma even if it is already stacked as never before.

AWS-operator still sleeps in his office and doesn't notice anything.

Maguuma Hacker: haha it's done! The world will be ours.

 

Also funny, but also not likely, but the important part of this story is: I doubt that anyone at ANet deciding pop status, it is likely fully automatic.

 

So lets try a third story:

10.12.2022, Maguuma player logs on in WvW: Argh, anything in our color, content still in strike, logs off from WvW

11.12.2022, Maguuma player logs on in WvW: Argh, anything in our color, content still in strike, logs off from WvW

...

16.12.2022, Maguuma player logs on in WvW: Argh, anything in our color, content still in strike, I did not even managed Wood this week. logs off from WvW

19.12.2022 Maguuma opens, as there wasn't any content, all player played much less.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Dayra.7405 said:

in Mountain View

You had me until this....

[Dayra.7405]

18 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You had me until this....

Ups Bellevue, corrected.

PS: Maybe I mixed that up with the company, who's management want to get rid of the "Don't be evil"-slogan associated to it by it's employees.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[roederich.2716]

If these mutliaccount guilds only want fights why dont they register in gvg discord and do the real thing then? Need skill to fight in gvg what? the real noobness of these guild could be revealed then? Better just press w on a couple random guys who want to play wvw by its core until these log off?

this random schoolyard bully gaming got definately an impact on wvw population by now.

[Chaba.5410]

33 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

If these mutliaccount guilds only want fights why dont they register in gvg discord and do the real thing then? Need skill to fight in gvg what? the real noobness of these guild could be revealed then? Better just press w on a couple random guys who want to play wvw by its core until these log off?

this random schoolyard bully gaming got definately an impact on wvw population by now.

What's stopping you from just running a PoF bounty train or playing Drizzlewood if you just want to burn down NPCs and capture objectives?  Do the real thing.  No need to complain about how WvW is played.  /s

Edited January 5, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[roederich.2716]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

What's stopping you from just running a PoF bounty train or playing Drizzlewood if you just want to burn down NPCs and capture objectives?  Do the real thing.  No need to complain about how WvW is played.  /s

Has nothing to do with bounty train or pve.

this is about behaviour of multiaccount user who have by now impact on population numbers so stay ontopic.

if you dont understand this: if you senseless do nonsense to people who play wvw by its core you can cry forever about low population.

These people want to bully others by grouping up and push w they not play wvw and they have no skill to look for real competition fights.

wvw is not played with multiaccounts.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, roederich.2716 said:

Has nothing to do with bounty train or pve.

Oh my bad.  Thought I'd apply your same logic of "if people want x then do y" to all the things in WvW that are not about WvW fights.

WvW is absolutely played by people with more than one account on different servers and there's nothing wrong with that.  It's not about bullying, it's about getting WvW fights; not about getting GvG fights (rightly a separate game mode by this point) anymore than a WvW player going to Drizzlewood for NPCs and capture.  WvW is a game mode that requires fighting.  It's absurd to suggest people go to a different game mode for fights.

Why are you wanting to blame people who have multiple accounts to seek WvW content with for all the problems caused by the same population balance defects that affect everything else in WvW?  If guilds hopping on alts to play on a different server occurred during the early years when servers were filled and we had twice the number of tiers, no one would have really noticed.  And arguably it didn't really happen because there was plenty of content available.  No one had to go hunting for it.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[roederich.2716]

40 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Oh my bad.  Thought I'd apply your same logic of "if people want x then do y" to all the things in WvW that are not about WvW fights.

WvW is absolutely played by people with more than one account on different servers and there's nothing wrong with that.  It's not about bullying, it's about getting WvW fights; not about getting GvG fights (rightly a separate game mode by this point) anymore than a WvW player going to Drizzlewood for NPCs and capture.  WvW is a game mode that requires fighting.  It's absurd to suggest people go to a different game mode for fights.

Why are you wanting to blame people who have multiple accounts to seek WvW content with for all the problems caused by the same population balance defects that affect everything else in WvW?  If guilds hopping on alts to play on a different server occurred during the early years when servers were filled and we had twice the number of tiers, no one would have really noticed.  And arguably it didn't really happen because there was plenty of content available.  No one had to go hunting for it.

because lots are fed up being the multi accounters wild hunt? as soon their "wvw fight" how you call it contains fighting for a structure they blame the other side for not "fighting"?

these guilds dodge gvg because taking part would reveal how bad they are.

if one server goes up and one down at the end of the week so one can think "ah finally we got rid of the bulliers for at least a week"  tadaaaa their are back on their alts....

you guys complain that some servers dodging encounters and use the waypoint on time? LOOOL

overdriving it with people leads to no fights at all in the end.

btw this bully behaviour is also harming the revenue of arenanet. all who left the game cause they where fed up with the multi user bullying dont buy anything anymore.

Edited January 5, 2023 by roederich.2716

[neven.3785]

GvG is a fake game mode.  Even in many of the old fight guilds back in the first years, a good portion of their players just didn't care for it, even in the ones who were pretty good at it.   I play for fights, but i want them to be in or around objectives with varying terrain. And i want them to be challenging fights.  If this means I run with some players who can't dodge roll and clicks their skills, its still a better trade off then running with people who treat a 10yo game like its a competitive e-sport career and have egos to match that mindset.  Back in those old days, the GvG guilds were picking apart queue blobs with 20-30 people more often than sitting in OS staring down another group of players while the leaders took forever to start each round. 

Now if your confusing stance on things is actually the opposite, accusing all fight guild players as being cowards for fighting in wvw vs GvGing, then that is ridiculous.   Some nights we walk out with 150 bags, other nights we probably give the enemy that number.  And some nights we hit a dead map so we take a few objectives then log out.  Its part of the game mode and they have every right to play it that way the same as PPTers have the right to run like hell and waypoint at the sign of an enemy.  If you cant swap maps to avoid people and that is what you want, then look for a lower tier to transfer your guild to.  I've been stuck on a map plenty with a 40+ fully comped blob to face against (or two very skilled fight groups fighting together) where we lose quite a bit to, just got to grit your teeth and accept it happens sometimes.  Whether you want to feed bags trying to improve, keep running PPT/Havoc (and likely annoying them quite a bit) or just fairweather off, that would be a personal choice, not a problem for arenanet to fix.  Your personal beef likely for a single guild group is pretty apparent to most reading your posts.

[Kite.5327]

SOS ppt all night long and then cry about being in t1 fighting other t1 servers. Claire's fault, not Maguuma's.

[Biermeister.4678]

1 hour ago, Kite.5327 said:

SOS ppt all night long and then cry about being in t1 fighting other t1 servers. Claire's fault, not Maguuma's.

Both servers missed an opportunity this week to beat Green down. When fighting that server the other two need to work off each other yes off hour ppt will happen due to lack of content 

[Biermeister.4678]

On 1/4/2023 at 12:52 AM, KeyOrion.9506 said:

There's three to four major guilds players, that have three to four seperate accounts PER player, roughly 50 to 75 players at the moment, who "server" jump because they have made it possible to make sure all those players have alternate accounts.  These players, when they don't have anything to fight, can literally jump to another server, play on the alt accounts as a guild.  That is a false positive for # of players in that game mode, since it's a number of players just switching accounts to play WvW.  They been Twitching, of how they keep their guild "active" and fighting by just jumping to their alt accounts on the other servers.

Alt accounts are not the problem a person only has five guild slots and with the link system in WvW and meeting new people in the game it makes sense to have an alternative account 

[Mabi black.1824]

34 minutes ago, Biermeister.4678 said:

in the game it makes sense to have an alternative account

I have never had this need in so many years

[Biermeister.4678]

43 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I have never had this need in so many years

Alts were the kids accounts that they quit playing when they got older paid money for them might as well use them 

[Chaba.5410]

12 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

because lots are fed up being the multi accounters wild hunt? as soon their "wvw fight" how you call it contains fighting for a structure they blame the other side for not "fighting"?

these guilds dodge gvg because taking part would reveal how bad they are.

if one server goes up and one down at the end of the week so one can think "ah finally we got rid of the bulliers for at least a week"  tadaaaa their are back on their alts....

you guys complain that some servers dodging encounters and use the waypoint on time? LOOOL

overdriving it with people leads to no fights at all in the end.

btw this bully behaviour is also harming the revenue of arenanet. all who left the game cause they where fed up with the multi user bullying dont buy anything anymore.

I'll simply reiterate: WvW is a game mode that requires fighting.  It's absurd to suggest people go to a different game mode for fights.

[roederich.2716]

32 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I'll simply reiterate: WvW is a game mode that requires fighting.  It's absurd to suggest people go to a different game mode for fights.

I‘ll simply reiterate: WvW is not a gamemode to brainless manhunt bully people over and over.

[Kate.3679]

2 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

I‘ll simply reiterate: WvW is not a gamemode to brainless manhunt bully people over and over.

so if you have nothing to fight in your current matchup you should just log off completely instead of logging in your alt accounts and finding fights elsewhere? this is how guilds die

also there is a gvg inhouse discord that is active, these multiaccounters definitely already do fight amongst themselves. however drivers are not always available and sometimes the times for these inhouses are too early for some people (most happen around 7 est) in order to not conflict with guild raids

[kash.9213]

34 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I'll simply reiterate: WvW is a game mode that requires fighting.  It's absurd to suggest people go to a different game mode for fights.

Was there another comment of theirs that claimed that? That's not stated in that quote. It looks like they're saying the groups who interpret actual fights as non-fights because they take place at a structure and not that groups chosen grounds are pretty consistently the same groups who are likely to avoid guild vs guild matches or other competitive activities that are out of their element. You guy can argue the validity of either argument, but I think that's closer to what that poster meant but I could be wrong.