A casual player's experience trying PVE instanced content

[Drall.2419]

Hi, I wanted to share my experience so far trying to get into instanced content.  I am reading posts on getting more casuals in endgame/ or that endgame is not for casual/ or that endgame need to be more casual friendly/ or that casual need to get good/ or anything in between.   So here is my take as I am giving it a go.

 

First, I am not an elite player, but I am probably not terrible either. I am fine with investing time listening to guides, I use the common build sites to have a decent build, and I take the time to gear appropriately.

One of my main concern is to not be incompetent in any activity with people who expect me to be competent.  So I am trying to sort out  how to get going, what's needed to be competent, and how do I know if I am competent enough!

 

DRMs.

These were easy to get started since I could solo/duo and get a sense of the mission before joining with others.  The problem is that I did not find them a very valuable investment of time and moved on to other things (unless I missed something?).

 

Dungeons.

I started those in duo with my wife and we completed about half of the paths.  For the rest, I found some LFG open to inexperienced people.  There are not that many, so I have yet to finish all of them.
I feel there is a path here, though a slower one, and the rewards are less interesting (once I got all the runes I needed, that is).  Having a better structure for LFG with training and experienced grouped for all dungeons would definitely be an improvement.  

 

Fractals.
These I found easy to get started.  Some Tier 1 LFGs are clear that they are open to everyone.  I ended up staying in T1 for quite a bit.  Expectations and difficulty are fairly low, so you can learn mechanics (guides only go so far).  I almost completed all Tier 2, but I feel I will need to stay there for a while as well.  I have been doing dailies and recommended, but some of the fractals don't come up very often.  I still feel somewhat inadequate with those, and I assume the expectation is that I have leaned all the fractals really well before going to T3+. 
All in all, I feel pretty good about fractals, there is a good path forward.  A broader distribution of all fractals would be an improvement.

 

IBS Strikes.
There is a training category, so that's great.  I found a few training groups here and there, so over a few weeks I learned the strikes enough to start joining regular groups. 
There is a path here, but it is slower.  I wanted to point out that commanders who take the time to train people are awesome.
  

EOD Strikes.

There is also a training category, but it is almost always empty.  I only learned the turtle so far.  I guess people who need it will take anyone since they are learning themselves. 

I do not see a clear path forward here.

 

CM Strikes and Raids.
I have not tried them yet.  I feel I need to get better with the other modes first.  I joined a guild who offers raid training, so in time that will probably be my path forward there.

Also, in the process of getting adequate I did a number of things I felt were expected:  
Pick a class and learn it fairly well.

Equip my characters with the meta.

(Keep updating through the balance patches).
Install arcdps.

Optimize button mapping (including getting a new mouse with more buttons).
Optimize game settings.

 

I think the main point here is how much is the endgame is for casual?    

There is a point beyond "casual" that I do not expect to cross - combat log analysis, kill proofs, rotation practice, and things of that nature.  So we will see how far I can get as a "casual".  I suspect I will need to commit more than casual to do everything in game.

 

Anyways, these are my thoughts on trying instanced PVE as a well-meaning casual!

 

P.S.  To be clear, I don't think the game needs to be made easier for me to do everything, staying casual is a choice.  Removing friction along the way is a good idea though.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Drall.2419

[Mell.4873]

46 minutes ago, Drall.2419 said:

Hi, I wanted to share my experience so far trying to get into instanced content.  I am reading posts on getting more casuals in endgame/ or that endgame is not for casual/ or that endgame need to be more casual friendly/ or that casual need to get good/ or anything in between.   So here is my take as I am giving it a go.

 

First, I am not an elite player, but I am probably not terrible either. I am fine with investing time listening to guides, I use the common build sites to have a decent build, and I take the time to gear appropriately.

One of my main concern is to not be incompetent in any activity with people who expect me to be competent.  So I am trying to sort out  how to get going, what's needed to be competent, and how do I know if I am competent enough!

 

DRMs.

These were easy to get started since I could solo/duo and get a sense of the mission before joining with others.  The problem is that I did not find them a very valuable investment of time and moved on to other things (unless I missed something?).

 

Dungeons.

I started those in duo with my wife and we completed about half of the paths.  For the rest, I found some LFG open to inexperienced people.  There are not that many, so I have yet to finish all of them.
I feel there is a path here, though a slower one, and the rewards are less interesting (once I got all the runes I needed, that is).  Having a better structure for LFG with training and experienced grouped for all dungeons would definitely be an improvement.  

 

Fractals.
These I found easy to get started.  Some Tier 1 LFGs are clear that they are open to everyone.  I ended up staying in T1 for quite a bit.  Expectations and difficulty are fairly low, so you can learn mechanics (guides only go so far).  I almost completed all Tier 2, but I feel I will need to stay there for a while as well.  I have been doing dailies and recommended, but some of the fractals don't come up very often.  I still feel somewhat inadequate with those, and I assume the expectation is that I have leaned all the fractals really well before going to T3+. 
All in all, I feel pretty good about fractals, there is a good path forward.  A broader distribution of all fractals would be an improvement.

 

IBS Strikes.
There is a training category, so that's great.  I found a few training groups here and there, so over a few weeks I learned the strikes enough to start joining regular groups. 
There is a path here, but it is slower.  I wanted to point out that commanders who take the time to train people are awesome.
  

EOD Strikes.

There is also a training category, but it is almost always empty.  I only learned the turtle so far.  I guess people who need it will take anyone since they are learning themselves. 

I do not see a clear path forward here.

 

CM Strikes and Raids.
I have not tried them yet.  I feel I need to get better with the other modes first.  I joined a guild who offers raid training, so in time that will probably be my path forward there.

Also, in the process of getting adequate I did a number of things I felt were expected:  
Pick a class and learn it fairly well.

Equip my characters with the meta.

(Keep updating through the balance patches).
Install arcdps.

Optimize button mapping (including getting a new mouse with more buttons).
Optimize game settings.

 

I think the main point here is how much is the endgame is for casual?    

There is a point beyond "casual" that I do not expect to cross - combat log analysis, kill proofs, rotation practice, and things of that nature.  So we will see how far I can get as a "casual".  I suspect I will need to commit more than casual to do everything in game.

 

Anyways, these are my thoughts on trying instanced PVE as a well-meaning casual!

 

P.S.  To be clear, I don't think the game needs to be made easier for me to do everything, staying casual is a choice.  Removing friction along the way is a good idea though.

The power creap if very real in this game and with the advent of clearly defined roles and more accessibility to Low Intensity builds.

Most of this content will become more trivial for the top PvE players. This has led to them being more forgiving with people's builds and DPS since this content is generally easier now. 

I mean maybe some the the very end-game raids are still hard but for most part I have not noticed any difference between static groups and pugs. The success rate is about the same.

 

Years ago Raids were pretty much inaccessible for most PvE players due to requiring very specific builds and DPS checks. Now days that isn't really the case. 

[Biziut.3594]

7 hours ago, Drall.2419 said:

Hi, I wanted to share my experience so far trying to get into instanced content.  I am reading posts on getting more casuals in endgame/ or that endgame is not for casual/ or that endgame need to be more casual friendly/ or that casual need to get good/ or anything in between.   So here is my take as I am giving it a go.

 

First, I am not an elite player, but I am probably not terrible either. I am fine with investing time listening to guides, I use the common build sites to have a decent build, and I take the time to gear appropriately.

One of my main concern is to not be incompetent in any activity with people who expect me to be competent.  So I am trying to sort out  how to get going, what's needed to be competent, and how do I know if I am competent enough!

 

DRMs.

These were easy to get started since I could solo/duo and get a sense of the mission before joining with others.  The problem is that I did not find them a very valuable investment of time and moved on to other things (unless I missed something?).

 

Dungeons.

I started those in duo with my wife and we completed about half of the paths.  For the rest, I found some LFG open to inexperienced people.  There are not that many, so I have yet to finish all of them.
I feel there is a path here, though a slower one, and the rewards are less interesting (once I got all the runes I needed, that is).  Having a better structure for LFG with training and experienced grouped for all dungeons would definitely be an improvement.  

 

Fractals.
These I found easy to get started.  Some Tier 1 LFGs are clear that they are open to everyone.  I ended up staying in T1 for quite a bit.  Expectations and difficulty are fairly low, so you can learn mechanics (guides only go so far).  I almost completed all Tier 2, but I feel I will need to stay there for a while as well.  I have been doing dailies and recommended, but some of the fractals don't come up very often.  I still feel somewhat inadequate with those, and I assume the expectation is that I have leaned all the fractals really well before going to T3+. 
All in all, I feel pretty good about fractals, there is a good path forward.  A broader distribution of all fractals would be an improvement.

 

IBS Strikes.
There is a training category, so that's great.  I found a few training groups here and there, so over a few weeks I learned the strikes enough to start joining regular groups. 
There is a path here, but it is slower.  I wanted to point out that commanders who take the time to train people are awesome.
  

EOD Strikes.

There is also a training category, but it is almost always empty.  I only learned the turtle so far.  I guess people who need it will take anyone since they are learning themselves. 

I do not see a clear path forward here.

 

CM Strikes and Raids.
I have not tried them yet.  I feel I need to get better with the other modes first.  I joined a guild who offers raid training, so in time that will probably be my path forward there.

Also, in the process of getting adequate I did a number of things I felt were expected:  
Pick a class and learn it fairly well.

Equip my characters with the meta.

(Keep updating through the balance patches).
Install arcdps.

Optimize button mapping (including getting a new mouse with more buttons).
Optimize game settings.

 

I think the main point here is how much is the endgame is for casual?    

There is a point beyond "casual" that I do not expect to cross - combat log analysis, kill proofs, rotation practice, and things of that nature.  So we will see how far I can get as a "casual".  I suspect I will need to commit more than casual to do everything in game.

 

Anyways, these are my thoughts on trying instanced PVE as a well-meaning casual!

 

P.S.  To be clear, I don't think the game needs to be made easier for me to do everything, staying casual is a choice.  Removing friction along the way is a good idea though.

What do you mean you are casual? From the description of every step you made, it points me up that you are normal player. You engage in content and are willing to play it. May I ask what is your definition of casual? 

Many players use this word on many diffrent occasions, usually to make themselves look like a victim in some discussions and therefor win the argument somehow, but I always wondered what is the real definition here. Time you spend on playing, problems with learning rotation/build or something else. 

I am curious coz as I mentioned, from your description you seem rather like a pro gamer that is just new to this game, rather than a total casual. ^^

Edited January 4, 2023 by Biziut.3594

[Nash.2681]

That's the odd thing about the term "casual", everyone seems to understand and use it differently. Most common usages seem to be either "I don't play to much, a few hours every now and then" and "I don't like to engage too much with the game and just click my way through it, no matter how much time I actually play". 

If one goes with the first definition, there is no (never was and never will be) issue getting into instanced content. It might take a bit longer, but those people will get there if they want to. For those in the other boat.... not so much, no matter how much time they play, they'll never really get into it.

However, OP is definetly dedicated enough to make his way into instanced endgame content, no matter if he/she's playing daily or just every now and then. 

tl;dr: people who are willing to learn about the game and put some effort in improving, can easily make their way into every endgame content. No breaking news 😄

[Biziut.3594]

You raise a good points here. I was asking partially becouse I was curious what I am? Here on forum I see peoples usually categorising others into:

Play only OW = Casual 

Play raids = Elitist

Like there is no middle ground, and since for past few months I log in once a week only to clear raids, which takes around 3h (so not a lot of time spend on playing the game), and before that, I was engaging in all content gw2 have to offer, I wonder what does it make me, and if there is even a reason to call someone casual/elite since it can't be defined or is viewed diffrently by each player. xd

[Nash.2681]

12 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

You raise a good points here. I was asking partially becouse I was curious what I am? Here on forum I see peoples usually categorising others into:

Play only OW = Casual 

Play raids = Elitist

Like there is no middle ground, and since for past few months I log in once a week only to clear raids, which takes around 3h (so not a lot of time spend on playing the game), and before that, I was engaging in all content gw2 have to offer, I wonder what does it make me, and if there is even a reason to call someone casual/elite since it can't be defined or is viewed diffrently by each player. xd

Make your pick: you're either a casual elitist or an elite casualist 😄

[Drall.2419]

I meant casual based on frequency and predictability of playing.  I do not have a regular schedule or regular play time.  I cannot join a static for example.

 

I do not think casual as an attitude, rather an availability.  Less time to research, practice, play.

 

I have been playing casually in OW for a bit over a year and now trying the instanced content.  Is it viable with limited time and mostlt pugs is really the question.

[Nash.2681]

3 minutes ago, Drall.2419 said:

I meant casual based on frequency and predictability of playing.  I do not have a regular schedule or regular play time.  I cannot join a static for example.

 

I do not think casual as an attitude, rather an availability.  Less time to research, practice, play.

 

I have been playing casually in OW for a bit over a year and now trying the instanced content.  Is it viable with limited time and mostlt pugs is really the question.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: if you enjoy the content, time commitment won't be the issue. You already gather the knowledge, are willing to learn and monitor your performance. As long as you don't feel you're starting from scratch all over after a break, you will progress.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I was called in WOW private Servers where i got trough a friend and then ptogressed trough Others into raiding.

I played mostly OW but was Open for everything, Just hadn't the Big commitment for it. I would learn when i was there, Like for raids when i got instructions beforehand. Otherwise i was more "daddeling" then really playing after a plan. When i found i Quest i Made that Quest, when Not i would Just ride trough Azeroth.

So this Definition Stuck with me. People who don't Put the Game as "Job" meaning more than 2-3h a day.(Andi think this is still much) And Just idle, making stuff that comes across.

What i would recommend to you, when you say LFG's are empty, make your own trainingsgroup. Believe me, Most of the time there are so many people also staring in this empty lfg and being scared(or don't Care) to make their own.

You don't need to know everything for this, it's Not called a trainingsgroup for nothing. Just that you already git over the hurdle and watch/read Guides is more than enough. Most people will probaly learn best by doing it, at least i learn the best this way. And a Lot of people i sawin my raiding-times are the Same.

 

So keep going, youre doing great. I Hope you have fun and keep Open :).

[The Boz.2038]

Do reconsider your stance on kill proofs. kp.me is a neat, handy way to handle them.

Rotations, unless you play a really must-stick-to-rotations class, aren't mandatory. Still good to practice, to know what syncs with what, what to prioritize when interrupted by a phase, how to manage resources (if any), etc.

[Asum.4960]

On 1/4/2023 at 12:30 AM, Drall.2419 said:

I am fine with investing time listening to guides, I use the common build sites to have a decent build, and I take the time to gear appropriately.

One of my main concern is to not be incompetent in any activity with people who expect me to be competent. 

Frankly, just this here puts you into the top <5% of GW2 players - and that's all you need to be able to, eventually, clear any and all content in this game. 

 

The fact that some of this content is pretty unapproachable, even for players with a team and growth mindset, is a shame. 

But as long as players wanting to contribute/not be a burden and actually learn is a gem of a rarity, rather than a general baseline, unfortunately it's going to stay that way. 

 

The amount of people who were passionate about the game and teaching and training players that I've seen burnout over the years due to the vast majority of players not only lacking that basic team oriented mindset, but actively being defensive/hostile to constructive criticism, adjusting their builds, learning - or really even just communicating that they need help, what they are struggling with, or even just what they are playing, is genuinely pretty depressing. 

 

So players either burnout and quit, or retreat into private communities or gated groups - leaving the LFG, and especially training sections, empty for any content difficult enough that it can't essentially already be carried just by the existing group already, offering the rest of the slots just because why not. 

 

So unfortunately you will struggle to get into content beyond of what you already have, at least without reaching out to some of the remaining training communities (which you've already done). But if you can hold onto that mindset, and communicate that, I'm confident that you will be able to see and clear any content that you are aspiring to. 

If you are willing to learn, improve and communicate - most groups will be lucky to have you.

 

On 1/4/2023 at 12:30 AM, Drall.2419 said:

There is a point beyond "casual" that I do not expect to cross - kill proofs

Trust me, we've almost all been there. Pretty much no one starts out wanting to exclude others.

But sooner or later we'll likely see you on the other side, after you've put in all that effort to learn and breach into that content and to not be a burden, only to realise that the majority of players simply doesn't - creating the desire to filter for those who do care as well. 

And especially after you've been raged at by random player #1000 that you'll never see or interact with again for daring to ask what role they joined as, gently telling them that the build they are playing isn't contributing and preventing progress, or simply for offering help. 

 

Your main concern being to not be incompetent in a group activity makes you a very, very rare breed in this community indeed.

Best of luck to you, and I hope you'll have a blast experiencing some of the best and most engaging content Anet has ever made.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Asum.4960

[garkos.2973]

People are idiots, 

I am a casual, I play this game maybe once a week.

 

But OW zerging is way too easy and boring imo.

Some instanced content aswell. 

 

I like overcoming challenges or at least feel like my actions matter. Just sitting there and letting my pet kill a god or a dragon does not feel epic to me.

 

I think some people misuse the word casual because they don t want to say that they actually want a hack and slash game for your pet which they can observe and and eat popcorn while doing that.

 

And people complaining about the need to have meta snowdrow builds make no sense either. Going into open world with a raid build will actually make open world harder when roaming around solo.

 

There are a lot of funny rp builds that go from being complicated to play to just spaming dodge with 3k armor and still killing elites in eod within 1m.

 

It is time to drop the crybaby attitude of a spoiled child and to actually start behaving like a normal developed human.

 

Ps: this is not directed to anyone specific in this thread.

 

[samsar.9152]

I have mixed feelings about raiding. I like raiding, but I'm currently inside the problem  I have 500+ li with really small amount of kp from the wings 5-7. This means I can basicly only do the wings 1-4 every week because high kp requirements often prevents me from going into wings 5-7 with pugs. I'm currently searching for helpful, friendly and chill community/guild to help me out from this problem. I'm playing in EU side. 

[Linken.6345]

22 minutes ago, samsar.9152 said:

I have mixed feelings about raiding. I like raiding, but I'm currently inside the problem  I have 500+ li with really small amount of kp from the wings 5-7. This means I can basicly only do the wings 1-4 every week because high kp requirements often prevents me from going into wings 5-7 with pugs. I'm currently searching for helpful, friendly and chill community/guild to help me out from this problem. I'm playing in EU side. 

Here you go.

Raid Training Initiative

https://snowcrows.com/en/groups/8172a2f9-3688-4e7f-9cdc-022e491e96ae?tab=about

Edited February 15, 2023 by Linken.6345