Math to back up why Maguuma should go it alone next relink.

[moutzaheadin.4029]

56 minutes ago, Shift Focus.9083 said:

I challenge you to go on any other server than Mag, Obs. Because you'll see what work actually means, and not just playing on easy mode all the time.

See what a lot of people don’t know is, for a good part of last year I used my alt and played on eBay, the character name was your pal obs.

 

I played in a comp gvg/boon spam guild called [red]. They are awesome btw. I played there for about a year or less. In that time I pug tagged many mornings. With the same style I use on MAG. It was very successful. My thing was all are welcome, join for fun. That was my only message.

 

so in fact I do know what it’s like to play off MAG, I even roamed against MAG, it’s by far the hardest server to roam against. I was tagged with my name so people knew it was me. I had fun. But I’ve since moved on from that for various reasons.

 

shout out to [red] and [aeg] two guilds that I will always remember for my time on eBay.

[Mabi black.1824]

3 hours ago, Nikola.3841 said:

Only community that ever got built in GW2 is Community of Raid Sellers

and of course that of mag . which I understand puts many players on NA in difficulty.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Jeydra.4386 said:

You know what happened last week on Blackgate? RAWR decided they didn't want to play against Maguuma, so they did their utmost to stay in T2 - by griefing their teammates as much as possible. They put bad tactics on everything, trolled tactivators, built tons of paper siege, etc.

The rest of the server responded by trying really hard. For a while it looked like RAWR might succeed. TC and BG were neck-and-neck for several days in skirmish points, but eventually the rest of the server won out and BG made it to T1. So don't criticize "team spirit". It was there last week.

You might ask what happened to the team spirit this week? Well, if you've ever played a sPvP match where one of your teammate dc's at the start or AFKs in the base, you know what it feels like. Sure you might win a fight and cap the point, you might be able to score a hundred more points, etc., but ultimately the match is pointless and you are almost surely going to lose anyway. It's why once one person AFKs, more people start to AFK. And that is at a 25% numbers disadvantage (4v5). Maguuma on their peak timezones have way more than a 25% numbers advantage (50v40).

So they had team spirit when it was going easy in t2, and ran away once they went to t1.

Team Spirit that disappears every other week isn't really team spirit at all. That's just the epitome of fairweather.

Edited January 13, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[exeggcuter.8394]

So what you're telling me, obs, is that you continued to play on EBay right up until MAG got more bloated than normal?

 

The ultimate gist of the initial post wasn't that mag was somehow suddenly the most numerous. That was true since I started. The gist is that it's way more *than is typical* and should go it alone *for one relink*.

 

It's been hilarious reading the mental gymnastics trying to overanalyze what I posted and suggesting it's more complex than that.

 

I've mentioned it before, and have been the team with more numbers. We won pretty good at that moment because of that. One side will have more numbers than the others at all times. There are ways to work around it >90% of the time.

 

But is there a point that the outnumbered is bad enough that there isn't a workaround? At a certain point any style of play stops working. You can't "draw people off other maps" when all maps have a map que. You can't run circles around a team that has a scout at every objective. You can't take tier 3 anything when all of the things have enemies everywhere and nothing to do.

 

TLDR: gonna be outnumbered, breaks sometimes, now broke.

[Jeydra.4386]

48 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

So they had team spirit when it was going easy in t2, and ran away once they went to t1.

Team Spirit that disappears every other week isn't really team spirit at all. That's just the epitome of fairweather.

You mean team spirit that disappears against Maguuma, right?

[moutzaheadin.4029]

1 hour ago, exeggcuter.8394 said:

So what you're telling me, obs, is that you continued to play on EBay right up until MAG got more bloated than normal?

I wasn’t telling you that. I was a replying to the other person about playing off MAG like it’s something haven’t or couldn’t do.

 

to be more clear. I used an alt account. I would never move the main account from MAG. On the 3 raid days a week I was doing for [red]. During non raid times I would tag up a lot of the time and use the same style of cloud I have been doing on MAG for a long time.

 

I always played my MAG account. I just played it less at that time.

 

hope that helps.

 

~obs

Edited January 13, 2023 by moutzaheadin.4029

[Nikola.3841]

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

The best part about your post is that it's BG and BG deserves it.  Most stacked server in the history of the game and all the rest of us heard during that time was about how we needed to get better and improve our server communities.

 

I left GW2 for two more years of DAOC after we won first tournament....and although BG roflstomped through it, it was actually not as unbalanced as ATM
I play for challenge, but one sided fights are boring for me, no matter if I'm winning or losing. In DAOC, at least I had tools to win 8 vs 50+
In GW2, numbers are huge advantage even if undermanned side is more skilled one

Edited January 13, 2023 by Nikola.3841

[lotus.5672]

To the players saying that mag roamers are bad and can be easily beat 1vX, winning duels in cele  tb trapper druid, ele, harb, virtuoso, deadeye, etc, isn't impressive at all, you shouldn't ever die in 1v1s running that stuff to begin with, and when it comes to small skirmishes and small scale fights your crutch builds just falls downs cause in the end you are still a bad player just with tank stats.

[exeggcuter.8394]

I'm just thankful that none of the notes about skill level aren't directed at me specifically. I do wonder who they are though?

[exeggcuter.8394]

Oh, and I just now noticed something... I don't have any alts! So some of this issue is people playing on the side they want rather than the side they are already on. Maybe I should dump a few hundred more bucks into this game and get an alt on all servers besides Mag so I can play with them?

 

I'd level stuff to 60 and get free accounts but that sound like more work than it's worth.

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

3 minutes ago, exeggcuter.8394 said:

Oh, and I just now noticed something... I don't have any alts! So some of this issue is people playing on the side they want rather than the side they are already on. Maybe I should dump a few hundred more bucks into this game and get an alt on all servers besides Mag so I can play with them?

 

I'd level stuff to 60 and get free accounts but that sound like more work than it's worth.

 

I always had alts for PVE, started playing them majorly in wvw about the 5th time my home server of YB had a major guild exodus.  If the guilds can do it, I can do it too.  And alts are way more efficient in the long run than paying for transfers, and about the same cost when you can get PoF keys for $15 on sale.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Arya Whitefire.8423

[exeggcuter.8394]

Why do you need alts for PvE??? Genuine question. Do you have some fancy interface setup that lets you control more than one character at a time? can I see it? That sounds like a cool design.

[Dagger.2035]

9 hours ago, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

And when it comes to actually fighting, if you make a good play and go deep, they support you and generate downs.  EVERY OTHER SERVER, the players are 90% likely to just run away and watch you die. Maguumies simply understand momentum and positioning, as an unorganized group, significantly better than any other server.

This is 100% true.  Most of the players on my server will not get aggressive and push any downs we create.  Instead, they stay at 1200+ range and watch Magauma resurrect their allies.  The few that know how to fight are vastly outnumbered by the players who don't.  I'm usually forced into playing certain builds because I know I will always be in this situation.

[exeggcuter.8394]

Hmmm @Dagger ... perhaps the reason I don't see what you describe is because I'm often our team's tag and have a suicidaly aggressive approach to tagging. I will 100% dive face first into a zerg of 50 people most of the time, but that gets old quick when your own team has like 5 others online cuz they all moved to mag / aren't playing cuz a ton of players moved to mag.

 

W/e... Any excuses of people not tagging is like 150G or w/e it is to buy a tag yourself.

 

Fun fact: you don't need to be competent to be a tag, you just have to buy it, literally, from an NPC.

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

The biggest advantage of alts for pve is the login dailies. Especially the mystic coins.

 

I do sometimes play 2-3 accounts at a time, but anet does not allow for macroing or event repeating, so it's a workout with alt-tabbing and the use of multiple keyboards and mice.  Rangers are good class for that sort of thing.

 

You can also use 1 account to drag 4 other accounts through most story content.  Useful for unlocking reward tracks, or doing collections, for instance for the legendary amulet.

 

Another advantage of alts is they make playing the market significantly easier since you can use the TP pickup area as basically infinite storage.   A single account can do this, but then you can never pick up anything from the TP without a major hassle. 

 

And being able to mail things back and forth between accounts can be handy.

[exeggcuter.8394]

Now I understand why you are far more skilled than anyone else on guild wars 2 @ arya. By sheer amount of time spent playing this game you've managed to perfect everything the game has to offer. Clearly I need to condense my gameplay habits down to one game. Then I'd have the skill required to beat Mag.

 

obs likely did the same. I should follow his example and play Guildwars 2 more.

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

I never even remotely implied you'd be able to skill up to overcome mag.  I clearly said Arenanet needs to fix it 🙂

 

Though some sort of "alliance of the light" probably would be able to have some fun wrecking Maguuma for a while til they got bored.  But it would take a lot of work and transferring and such, probably not worth it.

[exeggcuter.8394]

10 hours ago, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

Maguumies actually talk on map chat, when you ask for help they actually show up. Maguumies are capable of pushing a defended T3 for hours until it breaks, without any centralized commanding required.

 

And when it comes to actually fighting, if you make a good play and go deep, they support you and generate downs.  EVERY OTHER SERVER, the players are 90% likely to just run away and watch you die. Maguumies simply understand momentum and positioning, as an unorganized group, significantly better than any other server.

 

None of this is just the last 2 months, it's the last 3 years.  I generally ration my play time on Maguuma, because the more I play there, the more I hate playing anywhere else.

 

13 minutes ago, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

I never even remotely implied you'd be able to skill up to overcome mag.

I dunno man, these two statements seem to conflict somewhat. Not entirely. But still. You note there is skill maguuma has that others servers don't. By that logic other servers could get more skilled and thus overcome mag. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Sorry if it feels that way.

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

I was trying to demonstrate why I think mag is actually more skilled.  That doesn't mean any other server is going to easily be able to reach similar skill levels especially the combination of skill + playtime + ability to play without commanders holding their hands constantly.

[exeggcuter.8394]

2 minutes ago, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

That doesn't mean any other server is going to easily be able to reach similar skill levels especially the combination of skill + playtime + ability to play without commanders holding their hands constantly.

Hmmm are you contrasting average skill level, or total skill level of all the players combined? Obviously servers with more players will have more total skill. I don't doubt that maguuma has more total skill. It's quite easy to have more good scouts if you have more players. And etc etc.

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

Average skill level.  In my estimation, for every one great positional and momentum player on the average server, mag has 4-6 such players.  And yeah most of them transferred to mag over 8+ years. 

 

Or rather other servers do have at least some of these more skilled players, but most of them only show up to raid with the commanders they know and trust, and when that commander tags down, they quit.

 

Also even the less skilled mag players have practice playing with the more skilled ones, so even if some or multiple aspects of their play are not very good, as part of the team, they are able to accomplish more than similarly unorganized forces on other servers.

 

As recently as 1-2 years ago BG probably had 2-4 such players for every 1 on an average server.

 

And FA, AR, and TC, all exceed the average maybe 2-2.5ish for FA and AR and 1.5-2 for TC.

 

Again my estimates.

 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Nikola.3841 said:

 

Thats actually true, I often die (and get disgusted by BG players approach to fighting) because I engage first...coming from DAOC and Warhammer online as my first MMOs, I totally don't understand PVD mentality...hence I usually die first, or while helping others.
I disagree that its the last 3 years though, BG used to have much more capable pugs, who didn't run away from bigger numbers...MAG, though, always seem obsessed with KDR and usually don't engage until superior in numbers

 

lol. I am not sure I can blame being mental on Warhammer. But the Choppa in me does miss the options to Bypass. For those that didn't play Warhammer the Melee class had an option to invade an enemy structure while the walls were up. You would pop in a backdoor and then need to make your way up stairs to all the ranged that would be defending the top of the fortifications. Normally that meant you were quite outnumbered and had no Tank or Heal support. If the other side didn't leave troops to block, you would could cause some serious mayhem and give your side more help in breaking down the door to get into the structure by wading into their defenders and cutting down the range while they shot down on your side.

Sending you a WAAAGH! from this old Choppa. -Grimjester <OE> Order's End

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Dagger.2035 said:

This is 100% true.  Most of the players on my server will not get aggressive and push any downs we create.  Instead, they stay at 1200+ range and watch Magauma resurrect their allies.  The few that know how to fight are vastly outnumbered by the players who don't.  I'm usually forced into playing certain builds because I know I will always be in this situation.

Other servers have their time zone that does that, but some might only have that time zone. I get limited time to play, but I can feel that cut off point pretty often when I know I have to be way more careful about the plays I'm making because the people around me have a different vibe than like 20 minutes ago. That's usually when other servers get a different vibe also and start to really flex because everyone knows when someone logs or when there's a general shift in tone. 

In general though, I still have a lot of fun running around with our usual pugs and wanderers. They still do what they do even when the numbers look bleak, but like Jeydra explained, take out part of the server composition when you don't have that consistent coverage to fill in, like you'd take out part of a squad or team composition and you'll get dismantled and farmed regardless of how well the remaining can mitigate. Our server has solid guilds when they're on but it's not a super serious server. Even most of the packed servers have more adult schedules and not all hours in the day are going to be bangers. 

[Dagger.2035]

1 hour ago, exeggcuter.8394 said:

Hmmm @Dagger ... perhaps the reason I don't see what you describe is because I'm often our team's tag and have a suicidaly aggressive approach to tagging. I will 100% dive face first into a zerg of 50 people most of the time, but that gets old quick when your own team has like 5 others online cuz they all moved to mag / aren't playing cuz a ton of players moved to mag.

 

W/e... Any excuses of people not tagging is like 150G or w/e it is to buy a tag yourself.

 

Fun fact: you don't need to be competent to be a tag, you just have to buy it, literally, from an NPC.

I'm just pointing out that individual players don't have good fight instincts.  The skill disparity is real.

[Xenesis.6389]

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Probably because they don't care about 40 showing up for 5 guys or their scouts are better at providing relevant information (basic who, what, where info) instead of just pinging a POI.

Yeah but no one on any server does a headcount on who should respond.

"Hey guys there's 10 blue people at south bay, please we only need 10 to respond thank you!"

It happens all the time, every single day in wvw, to try and single out maguuma about it is hilarious, they're even in a match with a server that does it the best. Double hilarious their boon blob decided to sit out last week to tank but failed still. /slowclap BG.

 

And yes lazy scouting is the worse, there's people that will type a bunch of vague descriptions of group size rather than type down 2 digits. They never learn, stating numbers will get you a faster response, pinging a location and then answering 20 questions the next 2 mins does not.