Sharpening Stone 30s In All Modes

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Can we get an explanation for this? 

[Strider.7849]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Apparently the reason is because Kodama doesn't use it in his builds.

.............

Edited February 15, 2023 by Strider.7849
Removing it because it was harsher than intended

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, Strider.7849 said:

You can see even more bias when you compare his posts and tune on the engineer forums. That's why this game will always remain mediocre in comparison to what it could be; because people don't want improvements to any class but their own and to destroy the class(es) that beats "them" the most.

If you all feel better about it when blaming me, even if all I did in the other thread was providing the reasoning on why it wasn't buffed this patch, ok.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

This thread got super weird.

Anet fix Sharpening Stone plz

[Mell.4873]

Ultimately like me and Kodama said before, this does not change the benchmarks in the slightest. 

You also don't want to run this in PvP in most circumstances, the other survival skills even got a buff in PvP. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Ultimately like me and Kodama said before, this does not change the benchmarks in the slightest. 

You also don't want to run this in PvP in most circumstances, the other survival skills even got a buff for in PvP. 

The only problem is this line of reasoning means that sharpening stone should have CD reduced because apparently no one uses it. 

So why isn't CD reduced?

It can't be 'oh they forgot', because if that's the reasoning then maybe I have a lot more Stockholm Syndrome with this game than I realized, cause that's ridiculous.   

Edited February 15, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The only problem is this line of reasoning means that sharpening stone should have CD reduced because apparently no one uses it. 

So why isn't CD reduced?

It can't be 'oh they forgot', because if that's the reasoning then maybe I have a lot more Stockholm Syndrome with this game than I realized, cause that's ridiculous.   

If they did reduce the CD, it would buff all condition/hybrid benchmarks which right now Ranger is doing really well in.

This might result in a nerf to something else further down the line.

 

Basically, all Kodama and me are saying is we are happy with this outcome over a more across the board cooldown reduction. We really just avoided the potential nerfs to sharpening stones or equivalent skill.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

If they did reduce the CD, it would buff all condition/hybrid benchmarks which right now Ranger is doing really well in.

This might result in a nerf to something else further down the line.

 

Basically, all Kodama and me are saying is we are happy with this outcome over a more across the board cooldown reduction. We really just avoided the potential nerfs to sharpening stones or equivalent skill.

 

Well I'm glad a Mesmer and Engineer main approve.  As a Ranger main, I do not. 

There's zero chance a 6s CD reduction on sharpening stone is bringing condi ranger into the meta--Untamed aside, since the only reason it's there is because of FF.  Rest of the ranger builds are 15 ranks or so down on Snowcrows and only even there because of stance sharing.  

Benchmarks also don't matter in competitive, and I'm pretty unhappy about it since I sat at about 1460 with 60% winrate last PvP season on Druid (and coming from silver 1 because I was multi-classing for lege back), having to already outplay pretty much every other spec.  

[asterix.9614]

Yea, it was so weird how sharpening stone was left out like that! I want it to have a lower cd like the other survival skills! 

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Well I'm glad a Mesmer and Engineer main approve.  As a Ranger main, I do not. 

There's zero chance a 6s CD reduction on sharpening stone is bringing condi ranger into the meta--Untamed aside, since the only reason it's there is because of FF.  Rest of the ranger builds are 15 ranks or so down on Snowcrows and only even there because of stance sharing.  

Benchmarks also don't matter in competitive, and I'm pretty unhappy about it since I sat at about 1460 with 60% winrate last PvP season on Druid (and coming from silver 1 because I was multi-classing for lege back), having to already outplay pretty much every other spec.  

I am primarily a Ranger main; I just use the other two for different things. 

My Ranger is what I use in WvW/sPvP, Open World and Strikes/Raids.
My Mesmer is for WvW, Fractals/Strikes/Raids.
I kind of dropped Engineer for now as i level a Revenant (Don't have the ascended gear for it yet).

 

Ranger is the go-to class for any speed run and burst, it's amazing in all PvE gamemodes.

Why would you use Sharpening Stone in PvP, waste of a utility slot. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Abyssisis.3971]

They also left vulture stance cooldown at 30 seconds, probably to keep it in line with sharpening stone’s cooldown.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

They also left vulture stance cooldown at 30 seconds, probably to keep it in line with sharpening stone’s cooldown.

 

Think Primal Cry is also not working, or at least I'm not seeing the poison per hit when I use it...

 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Why would you use Sharpening Stone in PvP, waste of a utility slot. 

 

I'll have to stick some PvP vids up on my YT, but you can check out some WvW roaming I do with Druid--Sharpening Stone is a big part of the build (or was) for isntant condi-removal, and bleed burst on a very short CD

[Sandzibar.5134]

36 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Think Primal Cry is also not working, or at least I'm not seeing the poison per hit when I use it...

 

Pretty sure I was getting 2 stacks of poison on the AOE, when merged with hawk last night.

I will have another test when I get home from work.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 minutes ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Pretty sure I was getting 2 stacks of poison on the AOE, when merged with hawk last night.

I will have another test when I get home from work.

Ya you will get three stacks in AoE:

Primal Cry - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

EDIT: Looking at the wiki revision, maybe the three stacks IS the 'on each strike' they were talking about; I misunderstood this as poison per hit:

• Primal Cry: This skill now inflicts poison on each strike in addition to its other effects."

Somewhat underwhelming =\.  

Edited February 16, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Sandzibar.5134]

Yeah I think the wording is just a bit ambiguous and its working as intended... ie not very good.

 

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I'll have to stick some PvP vids up on my YT, but you can check out some WvW roaming I do with Druid--Sharpening Stone is a big part of the build (or was) for isntant condi-removal, and bleed burst on a very short CD

Why would you slot Wilderness Knowledge on a druid? Almost every skill has a condition cleanse.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Strider.7849]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I am primarily a Ranger main; I just use the other two for different things. 

My Ranger is what I use in WvW/sPvP, Open World and Strikes/Raids.
My Mesmer is for WvW, Fractals/Strikes/Raids.
I kind of dropped Engineer for now as i level a Revenant (Don't have the ascended gear for it yet).

 

Ranger is the go-to class for any speed run and burst, it's amazing in all PvE gamemodes.

Why would you use Sharpening Stone in PvP, waste of a utility slot. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you recently become a ranger main? Many of us have mained the class since the day the game launched.. Basically almost a decade. We've been through its upside and downs. There's a significant difference between someone that plays and is experienced with something for a year or two vs someone that has done the same thing for almost 10. It's like going from being experienced in knowing it to "feeling" it.

 

This doesn't negate your opinions of the class, just sharpening stone CD reduction shouldn't carry any weight against what's boosted by FF on untamed.  Why affect the class as a whole for a single potentially broken trait choice? I've said this before, but the two things that carry untamed is fervant force and the unpredictable burst it could do with it's teleport. They added a cast time to one, they just need to fix the other. 

 

As for why take it in pvp/wvw? It's used on many hybrid builds and condition druids.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Strider.7849 said:

This doesn't negate your opinions of the class, just sharpening stone CD reduction shouldn't carry any weight against what's boosted by FF on untamed.  Why affect the class as a whole for a single potentially broken trait choice? I've said this before, but the two things that carry untamed is fervant force and the unpredictable burst it could do with it's teleport. They added a cast time to one, they just need to fix the other. 

If untamed would be the only build using Sharpening Stone without Wilderness Knowledge in PvE, you would have a point with FF.

But that is not the case. The highest benching soulbeast build (hybrid soulbeast) is also using the skill without the trait. As a matter of fact, the skill is already taken in optimized builds without the former cooldown reduction of the trait, so there is no incentive to buff it by making that cooldown baseline.

Instead of making that cooldown reduction baseline, it would be better to make Anet balance the other condition damage utility skill options on ranger to actually be able to compete with Sharpening Stone how it stands. Like buffing Viper's Nest and Flame Trap.

Why unnecessarily buff the skill which is already BiS for condition builds instead of buffing up the condition damage skills which are not able to keep up with it?

[Abyssisis.3971]

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Ya you will get three stacks in AoE:

Primal Cry - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

EDIT: Looking at the wiki revision, maybe the three stacks IS the 'on each strike' they were talking about; I misunderstood this as poison per hit:

• Primal Cry: This skill now inflicts poison on each strike in addition to its other effects."

Somewhat underwhelming =\.  

I read it as 3 poison stack over the 3 strikes that primal cry does, 1 poison application per strike.

[Abyssisis.3971]

4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

But that is not the case. The highest benching soulbeast build (hybrid soulbeast) is also using the skill without the trait. As a matter of fact, the skill is already taken in optimized builds without the former cooldown reduction of the trait, so there is no incentive to buff it by making that cooldown baseline.

Even though anet tries to ignore pvp and wvw, they should have just applied the cooldown reduction to pvp/wvw and left pve at 30 seconds. That way they the current pve benchmark for rangers dont change too much, yet those  pvp and wvw builds which do use WK and sharpening stone aren’t on the receiving end of a nerf.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

 Why would you slot Wilderness Knowledge on a druid? Almost every skill has a condition cleanse.

 

I genuinely have no idea what you mean here...

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Strider.7849 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you recently become a ranger main? Many of us have mained the class since the day the game launched.. Basically almost a decade. We've been through its upside and downs. There's a significant difference between someone that plays and is experienced with something for a year or two vs someone that has done the same thing for almost 10. It's like going from being experienced in knowing it to "feeling" it.

 

This doesn't negate your opinions of the class, just sharpening stone CD reduction shouldn't carry any weight against what's boosted by FF on untamed.  Why affect the class as a whole for a single potentially broken trait choice? I've said this before, but the two things that carry untamed is fervant force and the unpredictable burst it could do with it's teleport. They added a cast time to one, they just need to fix the other. 

 

As for why take it in pvp/wvw? It's used on many hybrid builds and condition druids.

It's my longest played class at 4k+ hours, my Mesmer is half that.

Hmm I guess i don't know where all came from, probably Fractals with Soulbeast.
It's also a bit elitest to imply you need to be playing it from launch day....

 

I mean they plan on nerfing Fervent Force, i would rather Sharpening Stones not added to that equation when they do.
I happy that none of the benchmarks changed much, it would make even less sense if they nerfed us arbitrarily since they lowered the Sharpening Stones cooldown.

[Mell.4873]

44 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I genuinely have no idea what you mean here...

2: Healing Spring
3: Celestial Avatar (Druidic Clarity)
2x6 = 12: Glyph of the Stars
3: Seed of Life
3: Glyph of Alignment
7?: Vine Surge
 

VS

2 conditions from Sharpening Stone

Hmmmm.....?

Edited February 16, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Gotejjeken.1267]

15 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

2: Healing Spring
3: Celestial Avatar (Druidic Clarity)
2x6 = 12: Glyph of the Stars
3: Seed of Life
3: Glyph of Alignment
7?: Vine Surge
 

VS

2 conditions from Sharpening Stone

Hmmmm.....?

 

You don't run Glyph of Stars on immob / bleed Druid.  You also don't run Glyph of Alignment (breakstun combo from Equality is WAY more valuable). 

For the heals, healing spring can be ok but also requires you to stand in the trap, so most situations you aren't getting full potential and traited troll unguent way better.  They nerfed Druidic Clarity pretty hard, and you are missing the combo heals from Lunar Impact / Seed of Life combo. 

Vine surge clears immob, but lighting reflexes does also + 2 condi clear.  Vine surge should only be used for kiting to create distance between you and enemy.

There's also entangle which clears conditions on use with WK.   

Not sure why we're having this discussion anyway, because if you don't know the importance of sharpening stone you wouldn't know bleed/immob druid to begin with.  

Anet plz fix sharpening stone (starting to feel like that Shattered Aegis guy...)

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

You don't run Glyph of Stars on immob / bleed Druid.  You also don't run Glyph of Alignment (breakstun combo from Equality is WAY more valuable). 

For the heals, healing spring can be ok but also requires you to stand in the trap, so most situations you aren't getting full potential and traited troll unguent way better.  They nerfed Druidic Clarity pretty hard, and you are missing the combo heals from Lunar Impact / Seed of Life combo. 

Vine surge clears immob, but lighting reflexes does also + 2 condi clear.  Vine surge should only be used for kiting to create distance between you and enemy.

There's also entangle which clears conditions on use with WK.   

Not sure why we're having this discussion anyway, because if you don't know the importance of sharpening stone you wouldn't know bleed/immob druid to begin with.  

Anet plz fix sharpening stone (starting to feel like that Shattered Aegis guy...)

I really only wanted to focus on Skills.

Troll Unguent, Lighting Reflexes, Entangle wasn't nerfed so..... it was only Sharpening Stones which is a 2 condition clear that is on an extra 6 second cooldown.

I play an Bleed Immobilization Druid, but I use Ancient Seeds with Stuns/Roots, its normally for chasing or engaging rather than directly killing people. Glyph of the Stars is amazing for this since you can very easily prevent yourself from being downed, while you CC multiple people when your Zerg engages.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Mell.4873