Arena Net Accidentally create a Mesmer Healer?

[Mell.4873]

Mantra of Pain has no cooldown....

Pair that with Restorative Mantras.  It's not that the healing is even better than before (in terms of numbers its worse). Its more the Reliably + Damage + Eas of use.

I was one of the rare Mesmer who did brave healing in Fractals/Strikes/Raids, but now this once complex and convoluted way to heal has been made very easy with Mantra of Pain spam.
It has also flatted out my builds so there is very little difference in how I play Heal/Alacrity and Heal/Quickness.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Mell.4873

[apharma.3741]

This has always been the case, a bizarre and strange quirk of restorative mantras was that mantra of pain offered the most spammable healing back when the heal was a lot more but was also probably the worst to have on a pure heal bot.
It's also not that much compared to other healers as the 2s channel then 1s between casts means you take 4s to heal for I think it was about 2.5K with minstrels and other modifiers. Scrapper, tempest, guard/firebrand and druid will all dwarf that really easily and have good spike healing too. You also don't really give out regen or other ticking heals which helps a lot.
In fact I think vindicator is a better healer too by quite a way and so might spectre and it's not like all's well that ends well makes up for it either due to the stupid last pulse and it being kinda week too.

Edit: Justine might be able to comment more recently but where restorative mantras shined was that it gave big chunk of healing (2.6K) for no investment so for small and havoc it was great if you were going into inspiration for self sustain anyway. This changed for PoF going down to 1.6K which was still worth it and then obliterated the skill when they removed the charge mechanic due to long recharge times. Now it's got the same PoF values which are OK but the older version was better, see below.

New version is a bad pure healer but it's a good trait to pick if you're running a quick recharging mantra (heal, pain, maybe distraction) anyway and using inspiration and the other traits will be less value.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Restorative_Mantras&oldid=1243489

Edited February 18, 2023 by apharma.3741

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, apharma.3741 said:

This has always been the case, a bizarre and strange quirk of restorative mantras was that mantra of pain offered the most spammable healing back when the heal was a lot more but was also probably the worst to have on a pure heal bot.
It's also not that much compared to other healers as the 2s channel then 1s between casts means you take 4s to heal for I think it was about 2.5K with minstrels and other modifiers. Scrapper, tempest, guard/firebrand and druid will all dwarf that really easily and have good spike healing too. You also don't really give out regen or other ticking heals which helps a lot.
In fact I think vindicator is a better healer too by quite a way and so might spectre and it's not like all's well that ends well makes up for it either due to the stupid last pulse and it being kinda week too.

Edit: Justine might be able to comment more recently but where restorative mantras shined was that it gave big chunk of healing (2.6K) for no investment so for small and havoc it was great if you were going into inspiration for self sustain anyway. This changed for PoF going down to 1.6K which was still worth it and then obliterated the skill when they removed the charge mechanic due to long recharge times. Now it's got the same PoF values which are OK but the older version was better, see below.

New version is a bad pure healer but it's a good trait to pick if you're running a quick recharging mantra (heal, pain, maybe distraction) anyway and using inspiration and the other traits will be less value.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Restorative_Mantras&oldid=1243489

I never played it but as I understand, mantra healer chrono was paired with the old signet of inspiration setup. I don't know if it survived past that nerf in any meaningful way as my friend who played it gave up on mesmer and this game. Shocking, I know...

[Gesbo.6420]

I miss illusionary inspiration... was such a querky idea. Other than Phantasmal haste I dont think there are any significant ways to charge your Phantasms anymore is there?

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

This has always been the case, a bizarre and strange quirk of restorative mantras was that mantra of pain offered the most spammable healing back when the heal was a lot more but was also probably the worst to have on a pure heal bot.
It's also not that much compared to other healers as the 2s channel then 1s between casts means you take 4s to heal for I think it was about 2.5K with minstrels and other modifiers. Scrapper, tempest, guard/firebrand and druid will all dwarf that really easily and have good spike healing too. You also don't really give out regen or other ticking heals which helps a lot.
In fact I think vindicator is a better healer too by quite a way and so might spectre and it's not like all's well that ends well makes up for it either due to the stupid last pulse and it being kinda week too.

Edit: Justine might be able to comment more recently but where restorative mantras shined was that it gave big chunk of healing (2.6K) for no investment so for small and havoc it was great if you were going into inspiration for self sustain anyway. This changed for PoF going down to 1.6K which was still worth it and then obliterated the skill when they removed the charge mechanic due to long recharge times. Now it's got the same PoF values which are OK but the older version was better, see below.

New version is a bad pure healer but it's a good trait to pick if you're running a quick recharging mantra (heal, pain, maybe distraction) anyway and using inspiration and the other traits will be less value.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Restorative_Mantras&oldid=1243489

If you have the correct gear you can get it as high as 3.5k. I think it's more if you want to play a Mesmer healer, I'm not really going to claim it's a meta healer. 

I didn't play Mesmer back when they had the old Mantra of Pain so I didn't know it had been reverted. I also notice it's half the healing it used to be.

Anyway I do fine when paired with Wells. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Voyant.1327]

I've run a Virt Healer since I started pretty much, while each update makes it a little weaker, can still kick out mid 2k hps. Used to be mid 3k before all the horrid changes to Mesmer over the past year.

Every time they change something it makes the class worse. I especially hate the added skill bc it ruined the easy 100% regen uptime. Now I have to literally make myself less tanky to take hits to get regen uptime.

Just wish they would have someone who actually got the class making tweaks to it. Mantras feel awful now in comparison to me as well, and the manipulation I used to run got nerfed as well. All of which were supposed to be upsides?

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

I've run a Virt Healer since I started pretty much, while each update makes it a little weaker, can still kick out mid 2k hps. Used to be mid 3k before all the horrid changes to Mesmer over the past year.

Every time they change something it makes the class worse. I especially hate the added skill bc it ruined the easy 100% regen uptime. Now I have to literally make myself less tanky to take hits to get regen uptime.

Just wish they would have someone who actually got the class making tweaks to it. Mantras feel awful now in comparison to me as well, and the manipulation I used to run got nerfed as well. All of which were supposed to be upsides?

Playing a Virtuoso healer was pretty niche to begin with so it will be hard for them to consider every build when they balance stuff. But who knows I have suggested an extra change and allowing Restorative Mantra to be extended to each charge (at a further 50% reduction.)

[Carnifex.3275]

  

On 2/18/2023 at 10:54 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Mantra of Pain has no cooldown....

It's not that the healing is even better than before (in terms of numbers its worse). Its more the Reliably + Damage + Eas of use.

I was one of the rare Mesmer who did brave healing in Fractals/Strikes/Raids, but now this once complex and convoluted way to heal has been made very easy with Mantra of Pain spam.
It has also flatted out my builds so there is very little difference in how I play Heal/Alacrity and Heal/Quickness.

Wait what..? Mantra of Pain healing? Or did u mean Mantra of Recovery?

Edited February 25, 2023 by Carnifex.3275

[Mell.4873]

38 minutes ago, Carnifex.3275 said:

  

Wait what..? Mantra of Pain healing? Or did u mean Mantra of Recovery?

Restorative Mantras - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) + Mantra of Pain.

It has no cooldown so 3k+ heal every 2-3 seconds.

[Carnifex.3275]

7 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Restorative Mantras - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) + Mantra of Pain.

It has no cooldown so 3k+ heal every 2-3 seconds.

Ah okie yeah thats what i thought. But still seems abit weird to use mantra of pain for healing.

[Dadnir.5038]

31 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Restorative Mantras - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) + Mantra of Pain.

It has no cooldown so 3k+ heal every 2-3 seconds.

That sound exceptionnally inefficient and cluncky. I mean, a revenant would probably do better just auto attacking with staff.

[Varis.5467]

If a player finds themselves relying on a 3k heal every 2-3 second to survive, they are better off improving their overall skill instead. 

 

If you are just trying to make this trait work because it seems to be a 'nice bonus' to have, you are better off investing in another trait for better utility. 

 

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Varis.5467 said:

If a player finds themselves relying on a 3k heal every 2-3 second to survive, they are better off improving their overall skill instead. 

 

If you are just trying to make this trait work because it seems to be a 'nice bonus' to have, you are better off investing in another trait for better utility. 

 

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That sound exceptionnally inefficient and cluncky. I mean, a revenant would probably do better just auto attacking with staff.

You use traited Wells too

[Dadnir.5038]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

You use traited Wells too

Sorry to be the one to say it but, that's adding worse to bad.

[Mell.4873]

51 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Sorry to be the one to say it but, that's adding worse to bad.

Maybe but what other options do I have. I hate playing HB so if I want to play a Mesmer Healer this is the best I can do, I'm currently gearing a Revenant so maybe one day I can heal with Herald.

Most of time people are happy me playing some sort of healer in Raids/Strikes since i bring well timed Feedback resurrecting or really high Boon uptime. Saying that my most played role is Alacrity Mirage.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Justine.6351]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:47 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

That sound exceptionnally inefficient and cluncky. I mean, a revenant would probably do better just auto attacking with staff.

It is clunky.

I was asked to go that one time and I laughed and left squad. Its a garbage way to play the game. Its like 30 apm or something rofl.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Currently when fully stacked Chrono is one of the strongest supports. They offer healing on nearly every ability (if you use an exclusively Mantras and Wells setup), provide Alacrity or Quickness, and have a ton of boon output after the last update including Aegis spam that's on par with Guardian, though a bit RNG.

 

They also have access to the best group Stability spam skill in the game.

 

Players just don't want to play it because they've become too comfortable with massive healing numbers, even though in reality the HPS required to carry encounter is quite low, usually <1k/sec with an experienced group. For comparison, the HPS output of QHFB and HAM is 5k+on Celestial, which is why its called "overhealing".

Edited February 28, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[phokus.8934]

1 hour ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Currently when fully stacked Chrono is one of the strongest supports. They offer healing on nearly every ability (if you use an exclusively Mantras and Wells setup), provide Alacrity or Quickness, and have a ton of boon output after the last update including Aegis spam that's on par with Guardian, though a bit RNG.

 

They also have access to the best group Stability spam skill in the game.

 

Players just don't want to play it because they've become too comfortable with massive healing numbers, even though in reality the HPS required to carry encounter is quite low, usually <1k/sec with an experienced group. For comparison, the HPS output of QHFB and HAM is 5k+on Celestial, which is why its called "overhealing".

No one wants to play it because it's the same boring gameplay we've had for the past 10 years.

[Kodama.6453]

I always wondered why heal chronomancer is not really played. It looks to me like the spec has all tools required to be a proper healer.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pi1As6ZlNwmYNMGWJmUX5tVA-zRJYqRHfJ47s431GA-e

I don't see why this is not run regularly as a healer build... what is it missing?

[phokus.8934]

37 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I always wondered why heal chronomancer is not really played. It looks to me like the spec has all tools required to be a proper healer.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pi1As6ZlNwmYNMGWJmUX5tVA-zRJYqRHfJ47s431GA-e

I don't see why this is not run regularly as a healer build... what is it missing?

The heals from wells happen at the end so waiting 3 seconds isn't really ideal.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

The heals from wells happen at the end so waiting 3 seconds isn't really ideal.

Yeah, that is pretty much it, even if it is a ranged AoE it requires expert placement. For Raids and Strikes through its fine but Fractals is a bit apian to aim.

Its more the people who are not used to the healing type, they would rather not find a Well to get a 2-4k heal.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Mell.4873