Increase Camp/Yak rewards, give Wall/Gate repair rewards back.

[Iniak.9815]

If the issue was objectives running out of supply from people repairing(which they are supposed to do), then Anet needs to incentivize resupplying structures rather than remove rewards for a legitimate WvW mechanic(repairing).  This change was a huge step backward.  Please move forwards and restore event XP for repairing, increase the rewards you get for defending camps and also for escorting a yak to a tower/keep that isn't full of supply already.

 

After reading everyone's responses, my suggestion to fix the system is:

 

Tie in participation with eligibility of event rewards  and reduce the duration of time repairing refreshes your participation.  

Edited April 3, 2023 by Iniak.9815
Adding suggestion to fix the system.

[Ohlgrist.9724]

Very much agree. 
Not only are repairing and running yaks an important mechanic in general, but giving incentive to do it also helps integrating more casual or new players into the wvw community, granting them an easy way to contribute in a meaningful way. 

Removing even those minimal incentives is something I consider to be harmful to the wvw community at large and especially punishing non veteran players. 

Please do reconsider those decisions. 



 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Ohlgrist.9724

[andrewlcl.8176]

The latest change was unnecessary and definitely a regression. There's still a chance to reverse those changes and I hope they do.

 

17 hours ago, Iniak.9815 said:

increase the rewards you get for defending camps and also for escorting a yak to a tower/keep that isn't full of supply already.

 

I'd definitely like to see more fights over camps. Now, it's just common to get questions from bewildered folk, wondering why we even defend camps, and how we get our rewards for sitting in/scouting a camp.

Edit: forgot to say, repairing two walls by oneself is tedious as hell. It used to be that defenders would speed repair an objective while it was still contested, as it would yield some form of reward. Now, many don't bother with repairs at all and disappear as soon as the hostiles are driven off.

Edited March 18, 2023 by andrewlcl.8176

[MedievalThings.5417]

Even without credit for repairing walls, they removed the tower and keep defense entries from the weekly.  It's a pretty clear statement of what they have been telling us for years.  DO NOT defend.  Anet only wants 50 man boon blobs, fighting doors and the occasional group of 5 people who don't know better.

They nerf everything that is defense, and buff any and every thing that supports the ktrain style of play.

Not sure I'm going to stick around much longer as they are turning wvw into Drizzlewood.  Next, all 3 sides will just be on the same team fighting npc's.

 

 

EDIT 3/23  Looks like the defense credits are still there.  Not sure why my alt didn't have them available when I typed that.  /shrug

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ubi.4136
Correction

[Me Kill You.9035]

So annoying to see people in team chat celebrating how now there will be fewer “pve noobs” running around and joining wvw

 

Where do people think new players are likely to come from?  Should we just boo away everyone who’s not at least gold rank?

 

it’s so short-sighted of people, a lot who should honestly just know better

[Xenesis.6389]

You don't need to escort yaks, they move on their own already.

🤡

 

1 hour ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Even without credit for repairing walls, they removed the tower and keep defense entries from the weekly.

Huh? they did? for when next week?

https://i.imgur.com/59ZYl6r.jpg

[blp.3489]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Huh? they did? for when next week?

Just a guess but I think he meant that it will be very very hard to get the tower defense weekly completed under the current system.

Right now the most likely way to get a defense bonus is to be in a zerg that descends on an invading zerg that is already in the objective.  Having that happen 3 times in keeps is not that unlikely but having it happen 8 times in towers is less likely, especially if you don't spend most of your time zerging.

[Arc Sagi.4830]

Anet you finally included these only to disappointingly take them away. It really should have always been a part of the World vs. World game mechanics. It gives players of all kinds other positions to participate in. Camps and yaks are an important part of tower and keeps for defense and siege. Also repairing walls needs some incentive as it is very time consuming to do solo.

Please consider reinstating these.

[Syrethyst.8096]

23 hours ago, Ohlgrist.9724 said:

Very much agree. 
Not only are repairing and running yaks an important mechanic in general, but giving incentive to do it also helps integrating more casual or new players into the wvw community, granting them an easy way to contribute in a meaningful way. 

Removing even those minimal incentives is something I consider to be harmful to the wvw community at large and especially punishing non veteran players. 

Please do reconsider those decisions. 



 

I agree

[roederich.2716]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:56 AM, Ohlgrist.9724 said:

Very much agree. 
Not only are repairing and running yaks an important mechanic in general, but giving incentive to do it also helps integrating more casual or new players into the wvw community, granting them an easy way to contribute in a meaningful way. 

Removing even those minimal incentives is something I consider to be harmful to the wvw community at large and especially punishing non veteran players. 

Please do reconsider those decisions. 



 

Is that so? Rewards help integrating players into wvw community?

rewards grant them „easy way to contribute in a meaningful way“? Is that so? They cant contribute to the matchup without?

removing rewards which we didnt have long years is suddenly „harmful to the wvw community at large“? Is that so?

sorry but i think all this is rather political speech to get the easy to obtain rewards back instead of having any connection to reality.

making things up just for the sake that people get their pockets full by repairing a wall feels awkward man.

[andrewlcl.8176]

14 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

Is that so? Rewards help integrating players into wvw community?

rewards grant them „easy way to contribute in a meaningful way“? Is that so? They cant contribute to the matchup without?

removing rewards which we didnt have long years is suddenly „harmful to the wvw community at large“? Is that so?

sorry but i think all this is rather political speech to get the easy to obtain rewards back instead of having any connection to reality.

making things up just for the sake that people get their pockets full by repairing a wall feels awkward man.

Well, perhaps it's never crossed your mind that some players might be grown-ups who just want to play the game mode [hopefully] as it was intended. 

 

I just admitted to solo repairing objectives even when getting zero to non-existent reward, during downtimes mostly when population is down. (because, why defend and drive out hostile when we aren't even gonna repair afterwards) 

 

And I implied sitting in a camp to defend it, plus scouting, also for zero to non-existent reward. (because, why let hostiles stop supply and pvdoor when we can all get in for an honest fight) 

 

There's no need to be a cynic about this, to imply this thread has some secret agenda to push, by a syndicate of reward-nerds who are deadweight SMC wall humpers. 

[Iniak.9815]

The point is, every other game mode is significantly more rewarding than WvW and Anet have stated they want to improve the rewards.  We, the WvW community need to speak with a voice on what we think of their changes, positive and negative.

 

There is a way to play WvW with very little investment other than time(which itself is quite valuable), and then there are those of us who craft guild siege and tactics to play the game mode to the fullest extent of its design.  There is literally no incentive to invest resources except to help our team defend and upgrade objectives to win matchups and create content by fighting over objectives.  This is how the game mode is designed, to fight over objectives.

 

If you don't wish to upgrade, repair and defend and prefer to focus on combat exclusively, good on you, and I believe your efforts should be rewarded in a similar way, somewhat comparatively lucrative to other game modes.  This is not a zero-sum issue.  No one loses anything if escorting yaks, defending camps, repairing walls/gates, and flat-out killing other players are more generously rewarded compared to the other "pillars" of the game.

 

If you are playing WvW in 2023 you are likely just a fan of the game mode and not here for rewards.  We are all GW2 Fans, WvW fans, and I feel WvW has much-untapped potential.  Rewards reflecting your effort and time investment are just one aspect of how WvW needs to be improved, so let's not waste time being cynical.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Iniak.9815

[roederich.2716]

1 hour ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

Well, perhaps it's never crossed your mind that some players might be grown-ups who just want to play the game mode [hopefully] as it was intended. 

 

I just admitted to solo repairing objectives even when getting zero to non-existent reward, during downtimes mostly when population is down. (because, why defend and drive out hostile when we aren't even gonna repair afterwards) 

 

And I implied sitting in a camp to defend it, plus scouting, also for zero to non-existent reward. (because, why let hostiles stop supply and pvdoor when we can all get in for an honest fight) 

 

There's no need to be a cynic about this, to imply this thread has some secret agenda to push, by a syndicate of reward-nerds who are deadweight SMC wall humpers. 

that is you wanting rewards as existing player. but the post i answered to claims that it wil lbe for the good of new players...

do you think a new player who is there for easy rewards will ever go the path and make effort to get into pvp gameplay and strategy mechanic? no they will be there for the easy cash until its nerfed again. they will not be there for wvw.

[roederich.2716]

14 minutes ago, Iniak.9815 said:

The point is, every other game mode is significantly more rewarding than WvW and Anethas stated they want to improve the rewards.  We, the WvW community need to speak with a voice on what we think of their changes, positive and negative.

 

There is a way to play WvW with very little investment other than time(which itself is quite valuable), and then there are those of us who craft guild siege and tactics to play the game mode to the fullest extent of it's as design.  There is literally no incentive to invest resources except to help our team defend and upgrade objectives to win matchups and create content by fighting over objectives.  This is how the game mode is designed, to fight over objectives.

 

If you don't wish to upgrade, repair and defend and prefer to focus on combat exclusively, good on you, and I believe your efforts should be rewarded in a similarly generous way, somewhat comparatively lucrative to other game modes.  This is not a zero sum issue.  No one loses anything if escorting yaks, defending camps, repairing walls/gates and flat out killing other players is more generously rewarded compared to the other "pillars" of the game.

 

If you are playing WvW in 2023 you are most likely just a fan of the game mode and not here for rewards.  We are all GW2 Fans, WvW fans and I personally feel WvW has much untapped potential.  Rewards reflecting your effort and time investment is just one aspect of how WvW needs to be improved, so let's not waste time being cynical.

but then it needs other rewards than easy to obtain ones or lots of pve meta farmers will arrive who wont play on a strategic or pvp level. they will run in keep and stay there as we have seen.

and the never ending soulbeast and mechanist train will just get bigger.

it needs rewards tied to the actual matchup gaming. rewards you gain AFTER YOU SUCCESSFULLY played the matchup objectives. what are the matchup objectives?  to finish better than other servers by the end of the week.

repairing a wall will just bring more people who arent interested in the matchup. thats not what wvw is there for. wvw is NOT eotm metatrain farmers paradise.

[Iniak.9815]

29 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

that is you wanting rewards as existing player. but the post i answered to claims that it wil lbe for the good of new players...

do you think a new player who is there for easy rewards will ever go the path and make effort to get into pvp gameplay and strategy mechanic? no they will be there for the easy cash until its nerfed again. they will not be there for wvw.

I believe the point they were making was basically having these straight forward and easy to understand activities rewarded is a good onramp for players interested in trying WvW to contribute and be rewarded for helping.  I agree.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Iniak.9815

[Iniak.9815]

29 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

but then it needs other rewards than easy to obtain ones or lots of pve meta farmers will arrive who wont play on a strategic or pvp level. they will run in keep and stay there as we have seen.

and the never ending soulbeast and mechanist train will just get bigger.

it needs rewards tied to the actual matchup gaming. rewards you gain AFTER YOU SUCCESSFULLY played the matchup objectives. what are the matchup objectives?  to finish better than other servers by the end of the week.

repairing a wall will just bring more people who arent interested in the matchup. thats not what wvw is there for. wvw is NOT eotm metatrain farmers paradise.

I prefer fully repaired walls because I spend a lot of time fighting over every objective.  Taking enemy objectives and defending/upgrading our own.  I don't agree with the implication of your argument that we should gatekeep WvW from *pvers* by disincentivizing easier activities.  I do agree there should be significantly better rewards for winning but every aspect of WvW from killing rezers on the way back to a fight to the lowely wall repairer are contributing in their own way.  All activities that contribute to the team effort should be rewarded.  A fully upgraded objective gives significantly more warscore than a paper one.  If the walls are swiss cheese because the game incentivizes fighting above all else so no one wants to repair or hold camps or escort yaks for supply(which has been thr status quo for years) then you are much more likely to lose your upgraded objective and the warscore it awards.  I don't agree with your premise that winning the matchup is the only thing that should be rewarded but your stated position that winning the matchup should be the main goal is supported by people contributing in all ways big and small.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Iniak.9815

[roederich.2716]

25 minutes ago, Iniak.9815 said:

I believe the point they were making was basically having these straight forward and easy to understand activities rewarded is a good onramp for players interested in trying WvW to contribute and be rewarded for helping.  I agree.

no he was indeed posting about "harm to wvw community" and such overexaggerating politics speech.

also i got info by now that you made this thread and encourage your guild members to post here to back you up... 

12 minutes ago, Iniak.9815 said:

I prefer fully repaired walls because I spend a lot of time fighting over every objective.  Taking enemy objectives and defending/upgrading our own.  I don't agree with the implication of your argument that we should gatekeep WvW from *pvers* by disincentivizing easier activities.  I do agree there should be significantly better rewards for winning but every aspect of WvW from killing rezers on the way back to a fight to the lowely wall repairer are contributing in their own way.  All activities that contribute to the team effort should be rewarded.  A fully upgraded objective gives significantly more warscore than a paper one.  If the walls are swiss cheese because the game incentivizes fighting above all else so no one wants to repair or hold camps or escort yaks for supply(which has been thr status quo for years) then you are much more likely to lose your upgraded objective and the warscore it awards.  I don't agree with your premise that winning the matchup is the only thing that should be rewarded but your stated position that winning the matchup should be the main goal is supported by people contributing in all ways big and small.

nope, making easy activity lucrative so pve players will prefer wvw over pve meta maps will not bring any better of the situation.

the better solution would be giving better rewards by the time the objective is hold. the longer a player contributes in the overal hold of a objective the better shall his rewards but not every couple of minutes because he dropped some supply in a wall to move on then...

and meta map pve players are known for years as players who dont want to make effort to understand builds, classes, gameplay, they want to run in a circle cause strike missions are already too challenging.

if you bring Calcutta into wvw you will not help Calcutta but make wvw become Calcutta.

[Chips.7968]

21 hours ago, Me Kill You.9035 said:

So annoying to see people in team chat celebrating how now there will be fewer “pve noobs” running around and joining wvw

Where do people think new players are likely to come from?  Should we just boo away everyone who’s not at least gold rank?

it’s so short-sighted of people, a lot who should honestly just know better

If they're only going to play WvW if they get rewards for repairing a wall, then I think you'd have a very hard time convincing people playing WvW regularly that they remotely want those new players... 

If rewards for repairing a wall are the deal breaker for players in the game mode, then frankly... good. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Chips.7968

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

do you think a new player who is there for easy rewards will ever go the path and make effort to get into pvp gameplay and strategy mechanic?

Some will, some won't. The game mode will, of course, retain and assimilate only a part of that group. On the other hand, if they won't even come in the first place, that retained/converted fraction will amount to zero.

[andrewlcl.8176]

3 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

that is you wanting rewards as existing player. but the post i answered to claims that it wil lbe for the good of new players...

do you think a new player who is there for easy rewards will ever go the path and make effort to get into pvp gameplay and strategy mechanic? no they will be there for the easy cash until its nerfed again. they will not be there for wvw.

Everyone was once a new player. I went to WvW partly to get some easy rewards (ie. mindlessly zergball and press 1 and F1, in guardian staff when it was still a conal AOE, for those that remember...or put my 2 supp into a wall before the contested timer runs out), but also partly because it was there.

 

Today, I exclusively play WvW, not counting the break in-between headstart and now, of about 6 years.

 

People's interests can change over time. Consider the potential of the gamer, rather than the type of gamer that they are today.

[roederich.2716]

30 minutes ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

Everyone was once a new player. I went to WvW partly to get some easy rewards (ie. mindlessly zergball and press 1 and F1, in guardian staff when it was still a conal AOE, for those that remember...or put my 2 supp into a wall before the contested timer runs out), but also partly because it was there.

 

Today, I exclusively play WvW, not counting the break in-between headstart and now, of about 6 years.

 

People's interests can change over time. Consider the potential of the gamer, rather than the type of gamer that they are today.

so when there are already easy rewards we dont need any others.

the difference between you and the wall repairers is that you have been engaged into community and teamplay.

the repairers want to play it like a meta event on any random map. 70 people in queue for ebg and noone to see on alpine or desert... they are in queue waiting to join the farm...

this is not helping community. many guilds find currently no members anymore and asking around on other guilds if any players can guest in their raids to form squads...

for what? ranger pew pew from walls in smc in return? bad deal.

[Johje Holan.4607]

I agree with these; except the Yak escort reward.  That was a thing in the beginning of the game and they had to remove it.  Because you'd have flocks of people doing nothing other than escorting yaks, even when the Yaks were in no danger.  

4 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

it needs rewards tied to the actual matchup gaming. rewards you gain AFTER YOU SUCCESSFULLY played the matchup objectives. what are the matchup objectives?  to finish better than other servers by the end of the week.

In theory this is great and would be desired.  But in reality, all that rewarding victory conditions will do is to encourage stacking.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Johje Holan.4607

[roederich.2716]

12 minutes ago, Johje Holan.4607 said:

I agree with these; except the Yak escort reward.  That was a thing in the beginning of the game and they had to remove it.  Because you'd have flocks of people doing nothing other than escorting yaks, even when the Yaks were in no danger.  

In theory this is great and would be desired.  But in reality, all that rewarding victory conditions will do is to encourage stacking.

yes but stacking is necessary to balance the matches. thats what alliances will prolly do one day. fill the matches with people.

atm everybody complains that the stackers win always. so why these complainers dont stack on another server and cause their wanted "balance".  what is with this community calling for better balance but refuse to do so on their own?

everybody says wvw matchup is about numbers so why scatter around all the servers? cause noone tells them where to stack...

we have a huge general community problem calling for "content" but dont want to do something for that...

[Johje Holan.4607]

30 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

yes but stacking is necessary to balance the matches. thats what alliances will prolly do one day. fill the matches with people.

atm everybody complains that the stackers win always. so why these complainers dont stack on another server and cause their wanted "balance".  what is with this community calling for better balance but refuse to do so on their own?

everybody says wvw matchup is about numbers so why scatter around all the servers? cause noone tells them where to stack...

we have a huge general community problem calling for "content" but dont want to do something for that...

Well its complicated by many factors.  For one, WvW competitiveness is very dependent on having population across a 24-hour period.  A gap of just a few hours in coverage will result in a massive score differential.  And there simply aren't enough players during certain time periods to have equal distribution compared to the distribution of players during other time periods.

Second, we would need to stack in multiples of three to make it work.  And organizing thousands of players across the world to do that is extremely hard.  Especially given my first point above.  Its never been able to be done (in GW2 at least and I would bet not in other games either).

Third, one team is always going to be bigger/better/stronger.  And that team will always win.  And winning will encourage others to stack on that team.  So that team will get even stronger as it wins more.  And players on the other teams will get discouraged and not see the point of playing to win.  (There are ways to correct for one team being overpowered using game mechanics but Anet has never been able to figure out how to implement the mechanics to do so.  The one mechanic that is under player control - the 3 way fight so that 2 weaker teams can gang up on the stronger team never seems to work except in rare cases).

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 3/18/2023 at 11:59 AM, Xenesis.6389 said:

You don't need to escort yaks, they move on their own already.

🤡

 

Huh? they did? for when next week?

https://i.imgur.com/59ZYl6r.jpg

Yeah.  I have 2 accts I did the weekly on that still show it as completed.  The baby alts that I never really play anymore no longer have the defense ones listed.  Guessing Tuesday when they patched out defending, they removed them.