Support Warrior Builds for Raids/Fractals (QuickDPS, Heal, etc.)

[Infusion.7149]

49 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Well part of the problem with guardian (firebrand being the main culprit here) isn't just it's ability to heal but the other support boons it's able to provide, and several of them fairly on demand, versus someone like a quickness warrior or a support specter.  You have to hit the skills off CD otherwise you give up on your main job giving quickness on warrior or alac on specter.  Like the banner of tactics yes it has stability on it but you have to use it off CD or others won't get the quickness they need.

The 5 stacks of stability is over 40% uptime if you have 100% boon duration and have alacrity. If that still isn't good enough then Arenanet would need to add an additional source on a PvE version of a skill you don't spam off cooldown that has a limited use, such as "On My Mark". I don't see any other way for quickness unless additional quickness is locked onto bursts with Martial Cadence once more which is mutually exclusive with healing from shouts. If you rely on warhorn exclusively other than banners then it would need to be split for bladesworn.

If you look at scrapper and herald they don't really have the luxury of putting out stability without tanking damage; chrono has issues with healing and so does harbinger and catalyst (not much stability either until staff aura change). The primary shortcoming right now is the lack of protection.

[Jzaku.9765]

2 hours ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Well part of the problem with guardian (firebrand being the main culprit here) isn't just it's ability to heal but the other support boons it's able to provide, and several of them fairly on demand, versus someone like a quickness warrior or a support specter.  You have to hit the skills off CD otherwise you give up on your main job giving quickness on warrior or alac on specter.  Like the banner of tactics yes it has stability on it but you have to use it off CD or others won't get the quickness they need.

Warrior only needs to spam the banners off cd because the only good build right now is a minimal boon duration quickness warrior. A hypothetical Heal Warrior like we're discussing here will have so much boon duration you could probably never use Banner of Tactics until you need stab and still be fine.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The 5 stacks of stability is over 40% uptime if you have 100% boon duration and have alacrity. If that still isn't good enough then Arenanet would need to add an additional source on a PvE version of a skill you don't spam off cooldown that has a limited use, such as "On My Mark". I don't see any other way for quickness unless additional quickness is locked onto bursts with Martial Cadence once more which is mutually exclusive with healing from shouts. If you rely on warhorn exclusively other than banners then it would need to be split for bladesworn.

If you look at scrapper and herald they don't really have the luxury of putting out stability without tanking damage; chrono has issues with healing and so does harbinger and catalyst (not much stability either until staff aura change). The primary shortcoming right now is the lack of protection.

Their primary lack isn't just protection, it's resolution as well. Also that 40% uptime isn't good enough when other healer options can just bring it on demand. In encounters such as QTP depending on your groups DPS the stability may our may not be ready, you can be too high or to low on DPS that can go either way. If you're going to give stab to a skill like on my mark it'll end up replacing  shake it off because regeneration from defense is just too good to give up, you still need banner of tactics for quickness. If you're saving on my mark for stab you can't spam it so there's no ability to spike heal like other professions can do. Warrior would need lots of updates/overhauls to weapons and core mechanics to become viable.

[Hotride.2187]

22 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Mantras don't heal at all, especially with the change to prot+resolution on mantra of solace. F3 tome skills don't heal at all.

There is healing from aegis, aegis itself, protection, mantra of lore and so on. But I meant F3 and mantras as a source of utilities.

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Their primary lack isn't just protection, it's resolution as well. Also that 40% uptime isn't good enough when other healer options can just bring it on demand. In encounters such as QTP depending on your groups DPS the stability may our may not be ready, you can be too high or to low on DPS that can go either way. If you're going to give stab to a skill like on my mark it'll end up replacing  shake it off because regeneration from defense is just too good to give up, you still need banner of tactics for quickness. If you're saving on my mark for stab you can't spam it so there's no ability to spike heal like other professions can do. Warrior would need lots of updates/overhauls to weapons and core mechanics to become viable.

I think it is important to keep perspective here. Resolution, other than from firebrand, would be lacking on any other quickness and heal mech / druid as well. Even on paper if quickness catalyst can output resolution you aren't going to be doing that since firstly heal catalyst is far weaker healing and requires staff or dagger mainhand (as opposed to hammer) and energy gates jade sphere such that you want your energy to be used on air jade sphere for quickness.

The only ones providing stability on demand are chrono mesmer (not really a healer) through mantra of concentration, mechanist (which if you aren't playing mace you need to use Crisis Zone off cooldown), revenant via Inspiring Reinforcement (gated by legends and energy), tempest with Eye of the Storm (which is weak otherwise and only 1 stack of stab) in PvE only unless you play staff with Transmute Earth (gated by attunements), scrapper only if you run Defense Field toolbelt (Bulwark Gyro), druid only if you slot the elite Glyph of Equality. Well of Bounty on specter has the same issue essentially (wells provide alac), with 100% boon duration you would have about 60% uptime and a quickness harbinger (again not a healer) would be hard pressed to use Elixir of Ambition elite skill for stability (the meta build doesn't even run it and uses Plaguelands).

"On my Mark" is an ammo skill however, so if the above mentioned changes I put in above (mace barrier share in PvE, martial cadence cooldowns, regen on soldier's comfort in PvE, etc) are implemented you would still have one ammo remaining in case banner of tactics isn't enough.  "Shake it off" is also a stunbreak so I don't see why it is such an issue that stability is 40% uptime really. Harbinger doesn't even have appreciable shared stability (Elixir of Ambition is the only source) and neither does quickness catalyst (you would need staff with Transmute earth). Quickness scrapper has low access to stability , you would need to run Bulwark gyro and use the toolbelt Defense Field ; heal druid requires Celestial Avatar for Glyph of Equality so your only stability would be from Glyph of the Stars which is mutually exclusive with Nature's Renewal or Entangle, any non healing mechanist more or less needs to use Crisis Zone off cooldown unless running a mace mainhand. Really though if stability is such a problem it could be added to Battle Standard, in all modes given its massive cooldown and mediocre kinds of boon output. I actually was surprised at Banner of Tactics being given stability as when banners were held items Battle Standard was the one with a stability skill.

Warrior was never designed as a support, necro was designed for debuff/condi which is the opposite of a support which is why it has historically had issues once unshakable and defiance bars were put in, thief was never designed as a support, mesmer was never intended as a support (which is why chrono was made), even ranger wasn't designed as a support (which is why druid wasd made). The only two main supports in the core game were guardian (see empower in WvW) and elementalist (see water blast , blasting water fields in WvW). Engineer technically had med kit but until 2018 when bandage blast was remade it was not remotely competitive (and that was followed up with the 2019 gyro rework). What we have had is a decade of power creep.

I really don't think it is Arenanet's plan to redesign warrior yet again (Defense , banners, Tactics all were "recently" changed), so any kind of feedback should really pinpoint the real issues instead of posting yet another 50 page treatise.

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27 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

There is healing from aegis, aegis itself, protection, mantra of lore and so on. But I meant F3 and mantras as a source of utilities.

In the PvE context the thread is about, not really. Mantra of Lore doesn't heal other than from regen. Mantra of Solace no longer provides aegis whatsoever; meta builds do not run heal on aegis (Pure of Heart). Aegis is not a heal by itself whatsover it is damage mitigation ; the only skill on F3 that provides aegis is Unbroken Lines as I mentioned above.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

All classes were designed in the beginning to provide support. Some just had those roles updated and some got reworks that were just shuffling garbage around.

[Gerebos.1065]

Shoutsworn was my best bet for some support but the warrior is just not developed for support class at all.

I mean I managed to give more support with a bunker build where I drew most of the enemy fire on me while reflecting missiles and giving protection from targeting to my team than with all the support healing,quickening builds around the internet.

On the other hand with guardian and druid I managed to support and heal most of my team.

Many suggestion are on these forums about warrior improvement at least at a level where it can compete with others but have not seen any improvement by a long time,maybe in the next expansion.

I crafted full celestial ascended gear it helps as a jack of all trades but still plenty of room is left for improvement.

If the issue of range and number of allies affected by support would be revisited for support warrior there would be a little light at the end of the tunnel,as anyone can see you have to be in the fight even as a support not like a staff guard or druid from behind heals out the whole gang .

I wait the day when warrior will be glorious once again xD

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:49 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

All classes were designed in the beginning to provide support. Some just had those roles updated and some got reworks that were just shuffling garbage around.

Nope. Release necro was pure selfish garbage that should have been completely reworked from scratch. It released without any cleaving aa! Classes were designed for selfish pvp gameplay. Team utility was unevenly distributed from the start.