Big Weapon Spec.

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

So I invited my friend to play the game. Now he's searching for an elite spec that he could try but some things keeps bearing in his mind:

1. Big weapons - One big weapon. Less expensive and less problematic in terms of gearing.

2. All around - Can be used with ease in PvP, solo open world, fractals, etc. Might also try playing WvW but not for now.

3. Flashy Skilzzz.

We narrowed it down to 2 options. Either:

1. We go with Scrapper

2. We go Vindicator

I already told him that you can go with at least 2 different elite spec in a single class since Hero Points are easily achievable. So he can switch anytime in either class he prefers in different situation.

Any suggestions and comments? 

Edited April 3, 2023 by ArkLightXXVII.4768

[Acheron.1580]

Engineer is just so amazingly versatile. Healer / alac support, Quick or Alac dps, Condi or power pure dps. Revenant is very structured and so can be fun, but also fairly rigid. Base revenant felt really bad to level personally, and only really shine with their elite specs, where as engi functions just fine (albeit probably not terribly excitingly) for leveling with a simple rifle dps build. I haven't tried either in PvP or WvW so can't give much help there, though I will say that revenants bring a lot of crazy good stuff to group content.

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

1 hour ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Engineer is just so amazingly versatile. Healer / alac support, Quick or Alac dps, Condi or power pure dps. Revenant is very structured and so can be fun, but also fairly rigid. Base revenant felt really bad to level personally, and only really shine with their elite specs, where as engi functions just fine (albeit probably not terribly excitingly) for leveling with a simple rifle dps build. I haven't tried either in PvP or WvW so can't give much help there, though I will say that revenants bring a lot of crazy good stuff to group content.

Hmm. I've check his character status just now and both are level 80. Though both are currently have no decent gear as of now since he's just starting out. So before he invest his time and gold in specific class, I've recommend to check both class first. But cant really help him though since both class is really good.

[Polar.8634]

Both rev and engi have some top shelf builds for open world, instance pve, pvp and wvw. Your choice narrows to which profession generally you consider more flashy. 

Vindicator in particular is more flashy than scrapper because BIG sword and BIG dodge. But if to compare with holosmith, they are equal in flashy imo because SHINY forge. 

[Buran.3796]

   For PvE at the moment I think that Vindicator is stronger. Has the best solo builds in the game (celestial Vindicator, celestial Herald, marauder Vindicator and celestial Renegade) with 3 of them sharing the same stats and runes. Also has some meta builds for instanced content (quickness Herald and alacrity Renegade) and is one of the most popular professions in WvW zergs (mainly Herald and Vindicator). In roaming and PvP tho, I think that Engineer is currently stronger (Scrapper, Holosmith), and Mechanist is also a meta PvE support build in instanced content. Being said that, I don't stand more Engie's rifle after the re-re-work: just feels slow and boring.

  Now, since you narrowed the choices to power Scrapper and Power Vindicator and just in PvE with a single set of gear, I would say go Vindi, this is what I currently run soloing bounties and meta events:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmzAExzlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkn1kfsF-zRhYbBhJG1cGwBBOHUwhkpUoXRQFKAFfAEYDc/QSAvF9HtgKA-e

   You can replace the swap to swords for a second greatsword, a staff or even a hammer if you want.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Buran.3796

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

13 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   For PvE at the moment I think that Vindicator is stronger. Has the best solo builds in the game (celestial Vindicator, celestial Herald, marauder Vindicator and celestial Renegade) with 3 of them sharing the same stats and runes. Also has some meta builds for instanced content (quickness Herald and alacrity Renegade) and is one of the most popular professions in WvW zergs (mainly Herald and Vindicator). In roaming and PvP tho, I think that Engieneer is currently stronger (Scrapper, Holosmith), and Mechanist is also a meta PvE support build in instanced content. Being said that, I don't stand more Engie's rifle after the re-re-work: just feels slow and boring.

  Now, since you narrowed the choices to power Scrapper and Power Vindicator and just in PvE with a single set of gear, I would say go Vindi, this is what I currently run soloing bounties and meta events:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmzAExzlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkn1kfsF-zRhYbBhJG1cGwBBOHUwhkpUoXRQFKAFfAEYDc/QSAvF9HtgKA-e

   You can replace the swap to swords for a second greatsword, a staff or even a hammer if you want.

Do you have an easy time when soloing champions or elite mobs using Vindi? 

Edited April 3, 2023 by ArkLightXXVII.4768

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

1 hour ago, Polar.8634 said:

Both rev and engi have some top shelf builds for open world, instance pve, pvp and wvw. Your choice narrows to which profession generally you consider more flashy. 

Vindicator in particular is more flashy than scrapper because BIG sword and BIG dodge. But if to compare with holosmith, they are equal in flashy imo because SHINY forge. 

Aside from Flashy & Shiny Skills, does it really narrow down on which personal preference he could come up with? I mean I'm actually worried if he choose a spec that he wouldn't really like in the long run. He might really get bored and ended up quitting the game just because he choose a non-meta class.

[Buran.3796]

9 minutes ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Do you have an easy time when soloing champions or elite mobs using Vindi? 

  Regular champions, HPs and bosses in meta events are trivial, outside very  few exceptions with a certain attack or mechanic which could beat you if you don't pay attention. In bounties I can solo 60-70% of them if the unstable magic abilities aren't terrible (Restorer + Phase Shifted would wreck the dps), but the celestial build can handle 90% of them. The power build is more fun to play, tho.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Doggie.3184]

Hammer Scrapper has satisfying big bonks.

 

[Polar.8634]

8 hours ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Aside from Flashy & Shiny Skills, does it really narrow down on which personal preference he could come up with? I mean I'm actually worried if he choose a spec that he wouldn't really like in the long run. He might really get bored and ended up quitting the game just because he choose a non-meta class.

They are both strong, as per current balance patch engi is stronger in pvp and vindi is stronger in PvE. Patches are changing tho, hard to predict what will it look like in next patch. Still rev has solid builds for pvp and engi has solid builds for PvE.

So I think both professions are versatile, and in general good for starting. That's why it up for him to choose. 

Well, of ur friend is into bonking, he can take vindi, equip sigil of stamina in great sword and bonk all the mobs with infinite dodges, it's fun.

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

51 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

They are both strong, as per current balance patch engi is stronger in pvp and vindi is stronger in PvE. Patches are changing tho, hard to predict what will it look like in next patch. Still rev has solid builds for pvp and engi has solid builds for PvE.

So I think both professions are versatile, and in general good for starting. That's why it up for him to choose. 

Well, of ur friend is into bonking, he can take vindi, equip sigil of stamina in great sword and bonk all the mobs with infinite dodges, it's fun.

Hmm. I see. Do both spec can reach 15-20k dps with ease? 

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

13 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Hammer Scrapper has satisfying big bonks.

 

Hmm. I'm interested in which particular skill has big bonks.

[Polar.8634]

9 hours ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Hmm. I see. Do both spec can reach 15-20k dps with ease? 

Yes. Just remember you don't need to execute most complicated dps rotation available if you are new - start with something easy, and then improve. Usually if player does rotation badly it's worse that's just auto attack (and not breaking auto chain).

Just auto gives around 10-15 k DPS on most classes. After you know animation/sound of your full auto chain, you are ready to mix in other damage skills in between.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

Just auto gives around 10-15 k DPS on most classes. After you know animation/sound of your full auto chain, you are ready to mix in other damage skills in between.

That's in optimal situations, though (full buff, full debuff on your foe, foe standing still under 50% health usually, glassiest build possible, using 'stow' to cancel some suboptimal AA animations... etc.). Those are numbers that are often pretty hard to pull when unaware of the various "subtleties" on how to do it.

[Polar.8634]

5 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's in optimal situations

My example is still valid especially for not optimal situations. Just auto attack and add some few DPS skills 15-20 k guaranteed. When you try to do something complicated and fail, damage will be below what it could be with simple rotation 

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

11 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

When you try to do something complicated and fail, damage will be below what it could be with simple rotation 

I see. So the best way is to auto attack as filler while learning the skill rotation?

 

As for between the 2 elite spec, does it comes down to personal preference? Whether he choose Vindicator or Scrapper?

 

I tried using my friend's account in special training area. For vindicator, I only got 11.5k-ish maximum is 11.7k. For scrapper I only got an average of 9.5k. Maybe I suck using Scrapper.

[Polar.8634]

11 hours ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

down to personal preference

i tripple that, yes, i see those 2 professions on same shelf.

 

11 hours ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

So the best way is to auto attack as filler while learning the skill rotation?

yes, people get it wrong and then blame build/profession. they watch complicated rotation on video, mess it up and get bad results. 

if you learn how to perform all 3 hits without interrupt you will get most damage, and it is easier to learn for starters. to achieve that just repeat enough to memorize, and adjust when you have quickness boon as it speeds it up.

 

then you start filling with skills. for start its best to load all your skills fast, and when you have them on cooldown, auto attack.  

 

you can allways find some simple build/rotation on yt for most specs, and use it as starting point, you can then do more complicated staff later if you want. look specifically for "easy" ones

11 hours ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Maybe I suck using Scrapper.

vindi will overdps scrapper in pve content. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Polar.8634

[Polar.8634]

11 hours ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

For vindicator, I only got 11.5k-ish maximum is 11.7k.

here yw. this is old, now you have 2 dodges. just dodge more often. dodge bar does not need to be empty, just not full

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Polar.8634

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

38 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

vindi will overdps scrapper in pve content. 

Is this the same thing with PvP content? or no? 

 

Also, I would like to add if Catalyst would be a good option since we found out that it also uses a Big hammer?

[Polar.8634]

8 minutes ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Is this the same thing with PvP content? or no?

. in pve if you talk about damage dealer you care only about dps.

overall, in pvp strong spec has mobility, cc, optionally stealth, sustain and/or damage mitigation, damage. vindi really has only some mobility, blocks and damage, while scrapper has all of them.

10 minutes ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Catalyst

it is good in all content as for now. to generalize, it is harder to learn, in pve as dps is on par with vindi while stronger in pvp. again, as per current balance patch. 

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

45 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

it is good in all content as for now. to generalize, it is harder to learn, in pve as dps is on par with vindi while stronger in pvp. again, as per current balance patch. 

Do Catalyst have higher skill ceiling in terms of PvE content? It might be a harder profession and might give up a little later on higher levels

[Polar.8634]

6 minutes ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Do Catalyst have higher skill ceiling in terms of PvE content? It might be a harder profession and might give up a little later on higher levels

in pve vindicator has lowest ceiling, then goes scrapper then catalyst. Also lowest skill floor.

in pvp vindi has highest ceiling imo while scrapper and cata are also some of harder classes to use. but skill floor is lower for vindi at the same time. it is because vindi has fewer buttons to press, newer player will be less confused. but also because of that you have less resourses for higher level play, so need more skill to pull it off.

 

as new player you are interested in lowest skill floor, so vindi would be preferable. but this is also matter of preference. maybe you want that complexity and learning struggle.

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

31 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

in pve vindicator has lowest ceiling, then goes scrapper then catalyst. Also lowest skill floor.

in pvp vindi has highest ceiling imo while scrapper and cata are also some of harder classes to use. but skill floor is lower for vindi at the same time. it is because vindi has fewer buttons to press, newer player will be less confused. but also because of that you have less resourses for higher level play, so need more skill to pull it off.

 

as new player you are interested in lowest skill floor, so vindi would be preferable. but this is also matter of preference. maybe you want that complexity and learning struggle.

Last question, since we've been researching which class should we main, can I also ask in regards to Power Hammer Spellbreaker compare to these classes?

[Polar.8634]

9 minutes ago, ArkLightXXVII.4768 said:

Power Hammer Spellbreaker

sry, i haven`t touched that spec yet. All i know it is about cc and it gets damage from cc. it is pretty strong in competitive modes because of that. i doubt hammer is top weapon for warior in pve.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Polar.8634

[ArkLightXXVII.4768]

19 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

sry, i haven`t touched spet spec yet. All i know it is about cc and it gets damage from cc. it is pretty strong in competitive modes because of that. i doubt hammer is top weapon for warior in pve.

Thank you. I'm still waiting for the final decision of my friend which one he would pick.