Megaserver Map Queue Beta

[mythical.6315]

6 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The bolded part does explain exactly that: if you chose NOT to queue up, you will not change the map, the same way as was before when a map was full and you got an error message.

Others have already pointed out the flaw in your reasoning/expcetation: where exactly do you get placed compared to players who are queued IF you decide not to queue? If you are able to circumvent the queue, then the entire queue system is basically undermined, if you get placed at the end of the queue, you'll never get to travel.

The queue system "punishes" players that where previously continuously trying to enter a specific map (via manual clicking or a macro) while it streamlines the map travel process for everyone else.

It also now provides some feedback on how MANY players are interested in specific map (via queue number) thus potentially encouraging players to organize additional maps instead of trying to enter existing maps for extended periods of time (which is a benefit overall).

Exactly what flaw in my reasoning has been given?  I'd have to have given a reasoning in the first place in order for there to be a flaw.

[mythical.6315]

14 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

I think the point has been raised in subsequent posts, but how can the old manual system work alongside a queue? If you are there spamming "join map" while others are queuing, surely you don't expect to be able to jump the queue? Your first opportunity to join should only arise after the queue is exhausted, so you might as well join the queue and save yourself some frustration.

It probably can't unfortunately.  I'm just waiting for the "I told you so" moment that will eventually come.

[mythical.6315]

14 hours ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

If you see flaws I think you should elaborate instead of just stating there are some

One example is if you have people hopping from meta to meta which many people do or for those arriving slightly later than the main rush of players. 

Everyone queues up at the same time to join a full map.  If there are fifteen people in queue, and only ten slots open up during the meta, those five players will miss out.  By the time someone realizes that the queue is too long for them to get in before the meta completes, there's a high chance it's already too late to join the other instances as well.  The difference between the two systems is that the previous one would have allowed everyone ten opportunities to join the instance while the queue system only allowed one.  There was also more flexibility in the older system as you could still potentially get into the other instances if the first one didn't seem like it would work out.

Everyone had the same number of opportunities to join a particular instance under the previous method.  Now you're either one of the first bunch of players to queue or you're SOL.

Edited April 19, 2023 by mythical.6315

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

One example is if you have people hopping from meta to meta which many people do or for those arriving slightly later than the main rush of players. 

Everyone queues up at the same time to join a full map.  If there are fifteen people in queue, and only ten slots open up during the meta, those five players will miss out.  By the time someone realizes that the queue is too long for them to get in before the meta completes, there's a high chance it's already too late to join the other instances as well.  The difference between the two systems is that the previous one would have allowed everyone ten opportunities to join the instance while the queue system only allowed one.  There was also more flexibility in the older system as you could still potentially get into the other instances if the first one didn't seem like it would work out.

Everyone had the same number of opportunities to join a particular instance under the previous method.  Now you're either one of the first bunch of players to queue or you're SOL.

This is a silly comment in my opinion.

If there are 10 slots left and 15 people trying five people will always miss out, old system or new.

Today I tried it in TD and the map I wanted to get into was full. I was 25 in queue. While I was waiting, teh map I was on organized and Finished TD. In the middle of our run, the queue popped, probably when they finished, and since I didn't need it, I just closed the queue.

It works fine.  What you're saying doesn't actually make sense to me.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

One example is if you have people hopping from meta to meta which many people do or for those arriving slightly later than the main rush of players. 

Everyone queues up at the same time to join a full map.  If there are fifteen people in queue, and only ten slots open up during the meta, those five players will miss out.  By the time someone realizes that the queue is too long for them to get in before the meta completes, there's a high chance it's already too late to join the other instances as well.

In the old system, you had far less information. Those 10 or 15 players had no idea that there where 9 or 14 others trying to get onto the map. All they knew was that map was "full" right now.

The incentive to prepare or organize a new map was not given, not to mention that sitting there, spamming the map switch resulted in both inactive players (as far as game play is concerned) as well as a poor experience.

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

 The difference between the two systems is that the previous one would have allowed everyone ten opportunities to join the instance while the queue system only allowed one. 

The difference was that players which macroed or spammed faster where better off while players which didn't where more likely to just move on and miss out (and thus be unavailable for this content).

In both systems, only 10 players would get on the map and 5 would be left out because the cause for spots to open up on a map is absolutely unrelated to how man want to get in.

The net result was still: 10 players got in, 5 did not. Now it's still, 10 players get in and 5 do not but those who signed up first go first.

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

There was also more flexibility in the older system as you could still potentially get into the other instances if the first one didn't seem like it would work out.

Which means you had players try to fill already filled maps instead of organizing a new one, which is the actual root problem here. The deduction that 3-4 maps being full might mean there is enough players to fill another was to abstract for many.

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Everyone had the same number of opportunities to join a particular instance under the previous method.  Now you're either one of the first bunch of players to queue or you're SOL.

First come, first serve is a universally accepted system.

Now though more players might decide to organize more maps thanks to both:

1. more information about how many players are trying to get on maps (a biproduct of a queue system, which in WvW already has proven that it will lead to spillover onto other maps and unlike WvW is not limited to a set amount of maps) as well as

2. not having to uselessly spam map switch for minutes at a time, which is a poor game play experience.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

This is a silly comment in my opinion.

If there are 10 slots left and 15 people trying five people will always miss out, old system or new.

Today I tried it in TD and the map I wanted to get into was full. I was 25 in queue. While I was waiting, teh map I was on organized and Finished TD. In the middle of our run, the queue popped, probably when they finished, and since I didn't need it, I just closed the queue.

It works fine.  What you're saying doesn't actually make sense to me.

Read my post again as I stated what the difference was.

[mythical.6315]

If this is what you want then so be it.  If any of you complain later on about it, I'm linking this thread an invalidating your complaints.

[Redsnabba.9172]

8 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

One example is if you have people hopping from meta to meta which many people do or for those arriving slightly later than the main rush of players. 

Everyone queues up at the same time to join a full map.  If there are fifteen people in queue, and only ten slots open up during the meta, those five players will miss out.  By the time someone realizes that the queue is too long for them to get in before the meta completes, there's a high chance it's already too late to join the other instances as well.  The difference between the two systems is that the previous one would have allowed everyone ten opportunities to join the instance while the queue system only allowed one.  There was also more flexibility in the older system as you could still potentially get into the other instances if the first one didn't seem like it would work out.

Everyone had the same number of opportunities to join a particular instance under the previous method.  Now you're either one of the first bunch of players to queue or you're SOL.

If I understand you right you basically are suggesting randomized map queues so even people who join late have a chance to join the instance. I think that might be nice for said people because even with really long map queue they still could join on that map but it's really unfair for the people who have already waited for a long time. In the end in this scenario 5 people are still gonna miss out it's just a question of who that is and i do think the people who have waited for longer should have the advantage.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Redsnabba.9172

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

Read my post again as I stated what the difference was.

Sorry I read your post. As has been explained to you, a lot now, if you can keep retrying while there's a queue, where do you fit into the queue? How is that fair to the people like queuing. This isn't some random thing Anet put in that wasn't asked for. This is a request that's been asked for repeatedly for years. Years.  

That fact that a few people don't like it doesn't mean anything. But it makes no sense if there's a queue to allow people to keep retrying to get in. The only way that would be fair is to do it if there was no queue. 

At least I'm willing to explain my point. Rereading a badly thought out post isn't really going to change anything.

[Redsnabba.9172]

I didn't really get to test out the system too much yet but it seems that you can't join on non-full maps while being in a queue.
I think that is something that might be worth changing at least.
From what i could tell in order to join any map while queuing you first have to leave the queue you are in and i think that can be improved. I'm not sure if in some way that's what OP meant but I agree they should rework the queues to work like wvw where you can still join on maps as long as they aren't full.
The obvious downside to the current system being that you lose your spot in the queue if you have to leave the queue, switch maps and then requeue.

[Gendalfs.7521]

Dunno but knowing exactly how many people are in queue is a big plus, no? If theres 30 in row I can freely plan my actions not stupidly click join button.

[Krzysztof.5973]

Queue system in PvE maps was never necessary. As it is right now, it promotes laziness. You are more likely to find people just being AFK, waiting in the queue for more lucrative map overflow instead of actually working on a fresh map. The percentage will not be huge but it's going to grow as more people get used to the queue system. 

You used to be able to put some effort into spamming "join instance" and if you were persistent enough you would take your spot from someone who is too lazy to spam it. Before the queue system, if the LFG showed you that the map is full, higher percentage of people would either do something else or go straight for different overflow. 

In the end, new system fits the game better as it promotes casual play, that's why my opinion will never be popular. 

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

You used to be able to put some effort into spamming "join instance" and if you were persistent enough you would take your spot from someone who is too lazy to spam it.

Tell that to the players with different health conditions meaning spamming buttons will hurt them. Or players who use macro. Or players who doesn’t have the reaction of a twenty year old anymore.  I usually got into maps by spamming, but that doesn’t mean it was a fair system for other players. At least with this system everyone has the same chance to get in. First come first serve.

In WvW this kind of queuing does not seem to have issues, so when players get used to this new system, it may be better then the old one. Time will tell. And it gives better information about how many players wants to get into said map. This could make it easier to form own squads on overflow maps as you can see the need is there and people may join you. If this change was necessary or not is irrelevant as Anet saw it as necessary and chose to change it. 

[Krzysztof.5973]

31 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Tell that to the players with different health conditions meaning spamming buttons will hurt them. Or players who use macro. Or players who doesn’t have the reaction of a twenty year old anymore.  I usually got into maps by spamming, but that doesn’t mean it was a fair system for other players. At least with this system everyone has the same chance to get in. First come first serve.

In WvW this kind of queuing does not seem to have issues, so when players get used to this new system, it may be better then the old one. Time will tell. And it gives better information about how many players wants to get into said map. This could make it easier to form own squads on overflow maps as you can see the need is there and people may join you. If this change was necessary or not is irrelevant as Anet saw it as necessary and chose to change it. 

Not every single piece of the game has to cater to every possible handicap there is. Queue system in WvW makes sense from balance perspective and because you cannot create second overflow of EB. You don't need to paint it like someone older has no ability to complete meta events because he is unable to spam join fast enough... 

[Mike.7983]

Not a fan of this map que beta, sure it is easier on the hands as do not have to spam click join in, but other side is if your in a que for a meta chances are your never going to get into the map with your friends.  Seeing as this is a beta hoping it reverts back to old format or somehow is given a option to que and force way in same time to please both sides.

[Orion Templar.4589]

So far it seems to be working well. Earlier someone had reported that when a map gets full the posting in LFG would disappear. In my experience that doesn't happen. Full map advertisements in LFG persist as usual. In my case I wanted to join in on Octovine, and every group I tried appeared to be full and have a queue.  I joined a queue, but in the meantime I put up a tag and started to organize my own instance. Pretty soon someone else tagged up and in short order we had our own instance going and had a successful meta. In the past I would have been too busy spam-clicking to join someone else's map and wouldn't have tried to organize my own. Freed up from spam-clicking it was easier to focus on organizing my own map.

[ezzie.1973]

Since open-world queuing was introduced, I have noticed that more of the world events fail, specifically during Octovine and Chak Gerant.

There can be enough people to do the event, but they don't commit to it. Instead, players are waiting for their spot in the queue to open so they either do nothing in the current map, or they ditch halfway thru. We've been very close to completing the event but then find out that a lane that had 4 people is down to 1, and then a second lane is empty.

This was discussed in map chat and other people have noticed the same thing. It's discouraging. :(