Hero Points are outdated

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, knives.6345 said:

By sheer power of observation.

Forum topics? this is the only active thread, and not one other thread was merged to it. Sure, a few threads like this may pop up once a year, but again, few.

Map, Guild, Squad chats - 0 topics about HP being outdated.

I did not see anything on Reddit too. Nor on Twitter.

Yes, I did not use search, because why bother? If this is a hot topic, this would spawn multiple threads. (see the meta issue last patch).

So because you don't visually see it happening around you yourself, then it doesn't happen? That's how you collect evidence of something?

[vares.8457]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So because you don't visually see it happening around you yourself, then it doesn't happen? That's how you collect evidence of something?

Then what is your evidence that this is a huge issue for a lot of players? There is no evidence for that because hero points are really not an issue. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by vares.8457

[knives.6345]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So because you don't visually see it happening around you yourself, then it doesn't happen? That's how you collect evidence of something?

Do I need evidence for something like this? 

Look at this thread alone. How many people agree that HP is outdated? How many are meh about it? How many contradict it?

You do not need to get every GW2 player's opinion on a topic, a random, sample size would do. And this thread shows the skew.

Also, how are you defending the outdated part? How many people do agree with you? Do you have the numbers to convince ANet to do something about it?

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, vares.8457 said:

Then what is your evidence that this is a huge issue for a lot of players? There is no evidence for that. 

I never made the claim that it was a huge issue for a lot of players. That is simply people putting words in my mouth. My claim has always been about new players experiencing this game, and that not removing options but adding options to earn HP's would be beneficial, considering that the game has shifted so much that a lot of end game wants you to be in an elite spec. It would respect player's time a lot more compared to how it's currently implemented.

Whether or not Anet would do that, or if they see it as worth the investment, etc I think is a different discussion. I'm simply agreeing with the original poster, that the current iteration of the HP system is starting to feel outdated. I mean even ESO revamped their champion point system...which was a revamp of their Veteran Rank system.

I'm just simply agreeing with OP.

[vares.8457]

3 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I never made the claim that it was a huge issue for a lot of players. That is simply people putting words in my mouth. My claim has always been about new players experiencing this game, and that not removing options but adding options to earn HP's would be beneficial, considering that the game has shifted so much that a lot of end game wants you to be in an elite spec. It would respect player's time a lot more compared to how it's currently implemented.

Whether or not Anet would do that, or if they see it as worth the investment, etc I think is a different discussion. I'm simply agreeing with the original poster, that the current iteration of the HP system is starting to feel outdated. I mean even ESO revamped their champion point system...which was a revamp of their Veteran Rank system.

I'm just simply agreeing with OP.

Do you see new players complaining about hero points in game or here on the forum? Me neither.
It takes max 2 hours to get all the hero points to unlock an elite specialization, if this is not respecting player’s time then I don’t know what is. All you have to do is play the game, you can solo all hero points except maybe HoT ones. 
I really think your complaining about them is ridiculous. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by vares.8457

[Manasa Devi.7958]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I never made the claim that it was a huge issue for a lot of players. That is simply people putting words in my mouth. My claim has always been about new players experiencing this game, and that not removing options but adding options to earn HP's would be beneficial, considering that the game has shifted so much that a lot of end game wants you to be in an elite spec. It would respect player's time a lot more compared to how it's currently implemented.

Whether or not Anet would do that, or if they see it as worth the investment, etc I think is a different discussion. I'm simply agreeing with the original poster, that the current iteration of the HP system is starting to feel outdated. I mean even ESO revamped their champion point system...which was a revamp of their Veteran Rank system.

I'm just simply agreeing with OP.

The OP claims that "Hero Point are outdated", yet you're suggesting there could be more ways to obtain them. Seems you're not agreeing but going off on a tangent. And if they add more ways, and you have to do something to accomplish that, will you be decrying that new method as a "grind"?

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

My claim has always been about new players experiencing this game

And as it was already said, getting HPs is part of experiencing the game through a normal open world content, so still not sure how "think of the new players!" is supposed to be relevant here. Nothing about HP is out of reach of players because they're new.

[Gravitron.7982]

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And as it was already said, getting HPs is part of experiencing the game through a normal open world content, so still not sure how "think of the new players!" is supposed to be relevant here. Nothing about HP is out of reach of players because they're new.

There's always room for improvement.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

There's always room for improvement.

What is this response supposed to mean in relation to what you've quoted? Be specific.

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

What is this response supposed to mean in relation to what you've quoted? Be specific.

Your response is that "HP are fine the way it is.." Sorry I just don't buy it, there's always room to improve things in the game, such as the Hero Point system and how you can obtain them.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Your response is that "HP are fine the way it is.." Sorry I just don't buy it, there's always room to improve things in the game, such as the Hero Point system and how you can obtain them.

No, my response is literally that: getting HPs is part of experiencing the game through a normal open world content, so still not sure how "think of the new players!" is supposed to be relevant here. Nothing about HP is out of reach of players because they're new. 

What "room to improve" is here, in relation to what was being said in this thread? You're trying to bring new players into this, but when that's commented on, you simply avoid it and go back to broader, even more vauge "there's room for improvement". I wonder why that's the pattern here.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Your response is that "HP are fine the way it is.." Sorry I just don't buy it, there's always room to improve things in the game, such as the Hero Point system and how you can obtain them.

Any new method, short of giving them out for free, will be an effort for new players. Your earlier suggestion of some kind of currency that could be spent for the notaries for example, new players won't have an excess of any currency, they'll have to spend time to gain that. To get ahead in the game, you'll have to play the game, no new system they might introduce will change that.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

How did you determine the amount of people that would like the HP updated is only a few? Is there a tracker for this somewhere Anet makes publicly available?

You must be new.  Consider the source of the thread.  Though seldom done, this one seems quite successful in causing arguments.  She must be ecstatic. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[lezbefriends.7516]

2 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

Any new method, short of giving them out for free, will be an effort for new players. Your earlier suggestion of some kind of currency that could be spent for the notaries for example, new players won't have an excess of any currency, they'll have to spend time to gain that. To get ahead in the game, you'll have to play the game, no new system they might introduce will change that.

You CAN'T play the game in newer zones without using old builds. Half-filled templates don't kill hero point bosses. So it becomes an artificial treadmill, which is counter to what is advertised as "horizontal progression."

Edited May 3, 2023 by lezbefriends.7516

[Westenev.5289]

I didn't have this problem. I was more than happy to slot an empty traitline and fill it as I went (especially for specs like Reaper which drastically changes how you play even without traits/utilities).

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

You CAN'T play the game in newer zones without using old builds. Half-filled templates don't kill hero point bosses. So it becomes an artificial treadmill, which is counter to what is advertised as "horizontal progression."

The only time i have ever had any issue with this was with the first espec, because many of the HoT hero points were problematic. Since that time, two more expansions with much more easily acquirable hero points were added, and some of the HoT points got nerfed as well. And you are factually wrong, btw - most of the hero points in EoD for example are not bossfights, but channels. Half of them aren't even defended by random nearby mobs either, so can possibly be done even on level 1 characters. It should be easy to get at least one espec unlocked that way. And if you have issues, there's enough channeled/nonfight HPs in HoT and PoF as well to make up for what you might lack.

Also, why are you talking about half-filled templates if you cannot even use especs before level 80, by which point you will have al core unlocked already?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Gravitron.7982]

3 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

You CAN'T play the game in newer zones without using old builds. Half-filled templates don't kill hero point bosses. So it becomes an artificial treadmill, which is counter to what is advertised as "horizontal progression."

 
Yup, exactly. Someone else gets it!

[vares.8457]

4 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

You CAN'T play the game in newer zones without using old builds. Half-filled templates don't kill hero point bosses. So it becomes an artificial treadmill, which is counter to what is advertised as "horizontal progression."

You can. In PoF and EoD the hero point bosses are easy to kill, even with a half filled elite specialization. In HoT there are often hp trains running. It only takes max two hours to get enough hero points. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by vares.8457

[Manasa Devi.7958]

8 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

You CAN'T play the game in newer zones without using old builds. Half-filled templates don't kill hero point bosses. So it becomes an artificial treadmill, which is counter to what is advertised as "horizontal progression."

Why would you play with a half filled template? If you're level 80, you can run any core build because all core traits and skills will be unlocked. You'll have a decent head start on unlocking a specialization if you did play some PvE while getting to 80. There are 189 hero points available in the core game, enough to get your specialization more than 2 thirds unlocked. This is how everyone originally started out when the specializations were first introduced, and it worked just fine. If anything it has become more fine because gaining expansion hero points has become much, much, MUCH easier than it was when HoT was new.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Manasa Devi.7958

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

 
Yup, exactly. Someone else gets it!

Except what he said is false, since you can play in new zones with old builds. How do you think people got their HoT especs?

[Randulf.7614]

Old builds, old gear, I've played with newer players who hadn't even looked at their traits for a long time.

Any suggestion that "old" builds, older elites, core classes cannot work in new areas is demonstratably false.

 

[lezbefriends.7516]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How do you think people got their HoT especs?

Exclusively by grouping up, running HP trains and/or crying about difficulty until the content was nerfed?

[Gravitron.7982]

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Old builds, old gear, I've played with newer players who hadn't even looked at their traits for a long time.

Any suggestion that "old" builds, older elites, core classes cannot work in new areas is demonstratably false.

 

What core builds are consistently picked for Raids/Fractals?

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

Exclusively by grouping up, running HP trains and/or crying about difficulty until the content was nerfed?

That's also false. But if you require starting from HoT points and require grouping then... simply do exactly that. The next expansions don't require that nearly as much -if at all- so in what way is your complaint supposed to hold here?

11 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What core builds are consistently picked for Raids/Fractals?

What relevance does it have here?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Randulf.7614]

17 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What core builds are consistently picked for Raids/Fractals?

What raids/fractals are "newer zones"?