why do i get out of lifge force while in shroud so quikly i have all the right gear and the right traits and doing the rotation well in harbinger

[Greencat.6405]

please someone help

 

[mandala.8507]

It's hard to say without more information, but a couple things it could be:

• Firstly, your harbinger shroud decays 5% life force every second, so you get a max 20 seconds in there unless you've traited it otherwise or taken signets of suffering + signet of undeath (which you wouldn't do in any meta builds). You won't get any longer than this without extra stuff, so if you're just wondering why you can't stay longer than 20 seconds on a meta build, that's why. (This is probably not your issue, but just to cover that base).
• Secondly, if you're practicing on the golem, make sure to press the special action to refill your life force to full before starting your pulls. In raids and strikes this happens automatically, but in the golem room you have to do it yourself. If you start with no life force, you're going to run out in the early parts of the rotation that assume you started with a full tank.
• Thirdly, make sure you aren't canceling the casts of your life-force-generating skills out of shroud: pistol 2, pistol 3, and scepter 3. If you are rushing your rotation and accidentally cancel these skills without actually letting them cast fully, you won't have all the life force you need to complete the shroud rotation.
• And make sure you're testing with the proper boon setup (again, probably not your issue hopefully, but just in case). Without alacrity and quickness, the timing of your rotation will be off and you might not have the skills you need to generate life force off cd quickly enough to maintain shroud uptime.
• If it's none of these issues, then you just need to be doing the shroud rotation faster. As mentioned in the first bullet, you have a limited time no matter what, so if you're doing everything correctly and you still can't get through it all before shroud ends, you just have to be faster.

Just some shots in the dark at what the problem could be, but maybe one of them hits the mark.

Edited April 26, 2023 by mandala.8507

[Dadnir.5038]

Like mandala said there can be many reasons to your plight.

One of these reasons can be the overuse of devouring cut and voracious arc.

In any way, I don't think that you offer enough data to allow us to give you a proper analysis.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[KrHome.1920]

Quote

all the right gear and the right traits and doing the rotation well

Then it must be a bug. I mean what else should it be.

[Nephalem.8921]

The harb rotation is very tight on lifeforce. Thats why you should shroud 5 to make it a bit easier on lifeforce.

It also has 2 shroud loops differing in length. It is tight to begin with so if you are a bit too slow you will not be able to do the rotation. harb has a lot of issues and thats one of them.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Yeah, it's worth noting that using Devouring Cut and Voracious Arc above their blight thresholds will reduce the amount of time you have in shroud.  You want to do this for damage, but because your max health increases as you lose blight, so does your maximum life force, which sets the drain to a higher number.

[Asum.4960]

5 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Yeah, it's worth noting that using Devouring Cut and Voracious Arc above their blight thresholds will reduce the amount of time you have in shroud.  You want to do this for damage, but because your max health increases as you lose blight, so does your maximum life force, which sets the drain to a higher number.

In conjunction with the LF deletion due to Blight's Health reduction, yea.

 

Let's say for example you have 30.000 HP, since Life Force is 69% of HP, that means 20700 LF + 20% Soul Battery = 24840 LF. 

If you then stack up 25 Blight you lose 37.5% max HP and LF, aka go down to 18750 HP and 15525 LF.

 

When you then dump Blight in Shroud via Devouring Cut and Voracious Arc, your Max HP and max LF go up again, but while the current Health readjusts back proportionally to the higher HP value again, the current LF does not - in example 9315 LF just got deleted. 

Meaning, unlike all other Necro Specs at 69%, Harbinger effectively has just ~43% of it's max HP as LF, but which then drains at 5% per second (the highest LF drain Shroud in PvE) off of the 69% value.

 

So the Blight, and especially Blight removal mechanic, really screws you twice over (in terms of LF, including the health reduction and lack of Shroud damage absorption, Harb is screwed 4 times over by it's elite spec mechanic).

 

That results in Harbinger having just ~12 seconds of Shroud (when Blight dumping with S3&4) even when starting off with max LF, no matter how much Vitality you build. 

The only way to extend that a little is Shroud 5, Vital Draw, and Signets of Suffering traited Signet of Undeath. So for instanced content and rotations only the former applies - which OP might be missing in it's rota.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Asum.4960

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

In conjunction with the LF deletion due to Blight's Health reduction, yea.

 

Let's say for example you have 30.000 HP, since Life Force is 69% of HP, that means 20700 LF + 20% Soul Battery = 24840 LF. 

If you then stack up 25 Blight you lose 37.5% max HP and LF, aka go down to 18750 HP and 15525 LF.

 

When you then dump Blight in Shroud via Devouring Cut and Voracious Arc, your Max HP and max LF go up again, but while the current Health readjusts back proportionally to the higher HP value again, the current LF does not - in example 9315 LF just got deleted. 

Meaning, unlike all other Necro Specs at 69%, Harbinger effectively has just ~43% of it's max HP as LF, but which then drains at 5% per second (the highest LF drain Shroud in PvE) off of the 69% value.

 

So the Blight, and especially Blight removal mechanic, really screws you twice over (in terms of LF, including the health reduction and lack of Shroud damage absorption, Harb is screwed 4 times over by it's elite spec mechanic).

 

That results in Harbinger having just ~12 seconds of Shroud (when Blight dumping with S3&4) even when starting off with max LF, no matter how much Vitality you build. 

The only way to extend that a little is Shroud 5, Vital Draw, and Signets of Suffering traited Signet of Undeath. So for instanced content and rotations only the former applies - which OP might be missing in it's rota.

I think gaining blight from being in shroud buys you another second of shroud time, but this is accurate.

[sdaugherty.1984]

5 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

So the Blight, and especially Blight removal mechanic, really screws you twice over (in terms of LF, including the health reduction and lack of Shroud damage absorption, Harb is screwed 4 times over by it's elite spec mechanic).

Soooo.... Can't Anet scrap the whole Blight mechanic? (not a fan) I have seen many forum users come up with great ideas.

[zeyeti.8347]

The cost of vital essence normally only affect scourge , vital essence F skills cost a base price , so having more hp increase your max ressource to spend for scourge skills.

But reaper has % per sec life force drain , so any hp more or less shouldn't make a difference because its' a % pers seconde (only if you take hits) , same goes for harbringer (without hits) , the only thing i could say is it's maybe a bug with the blight who reduce your max hp and with a skill like voracious arc getting 10 stacks of blight out , maybe the calculation is made first on your max hp and not on your actual hp with blight stacks , complicated harbringer ... it normally should calculate the % of your max "actual" health. 

if this is true , after the patch we gain 2 blight each sec isntead of 1 in shroud , it is gonna be epic ... calculation 

[stormemperor.3745]

On 4/26/2023 at 8:28 PM, malteia.6058 said:

please someone help

 

TLDR: Blight lose = Life Force lose

Its gonna really scuffed after may 2 balance patch unless they fix this issue.

[Asum.4960]

Being able to get and maintain more Blight stacks is actually going to lessen the issue slightly, as the 5% Shroud drain will be from a still reduced max LF value by more remaining Blight. 

 

As I (tried to) explain in my post above, the compounding effect of starting with lowered LF due to having Blight, and then % draining LF off of a higher max LF due to removing blight is what really screws Harb's LF. That difference will be smaller.

 

It's still going to be a terrible mechanic, but if the previewed changes go through it should be a slight band-aid.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Asum.4960