core warrior needs a f2 and flaw of bladesworn

[Lighter.5631]

same reason why core engi got a new f5 and core rev got a f2

 

i literally can not comprehend how these classes with already so many skills got an extra skill

while a warrior who desperately needs new skills doesn't get anything.

 

You see, you need to standardize how you treat your classes

You determined how tool belt skills can not be counted as class mechanics, so you added a new f5, which then gets replaced by elite specs.

but core warrior has none, and Elite specs all get new f2's.

and you gave core rev a F2 skill, even tho it's main mechanic is legend swapping, which then get replaced with other f2s, or even f3 f4 in the case of Renegade.

 

just like how you determined, distortion for mesmer is actually a mandatory gameplay mechanic, core burst skills are also a mandatory gameplay mechanic that is outside of class mechanic

(core mesmer also lack in terms of a F5 that get replaced by elite specs, after they determined distortion as a mandatory mechanic that all mesmer specs should have, instead of a replaceable class mechanic)

 

 

First of all, give core warrior a new f2 skill, second of all, bring back core burst skills for bladesworn to f1, give a burst skill to gunsaber, and keep the dragon trigger in f2. this would fix bladesworn so much. tho it doesn't fix how it's gameplay style still cannibalizes all other warrior specs.

 

you need to realize how core burst skills are balanced to the point it is a mandatory mechanic as part of the weapon, and not a class mechanic that functions outside of weapon skills.

and class mechanic needs to be recategorized, berserker f2: altering core burst, spellbreaker f2: weaker core burst but resets core burst with added defensive features

which is why bladesworn is so unbelievably clunky to play. because bladesworn only has f2, but does not have the mandatory mechanic f1,

 

as such would be removing one attunement from ele for new elite specs, removing distortion from mesmer for new elite specs, removing one legend slot from rev for new elite specs.

currently bladesworn is the only class that actually removes a mandatory mechanics

 

these are gameplay flaws that don't really show in PvE, as all it matters are just numbers.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I've said this before: Add Core F2 Bursts for the OH weapons and a second F2 for 2H weapons. Let those new bursts fill in gaps in the weapon's gameplay. Warhorn for instance would have a healing burst that grants protection, and with the trait would gain alacrity. GS could get an AoE pull or knockdown. OH sword could get a fast attack that applies a large amount of torment. There is so much that Anet could do by opening that design space up.

For Bladesworn, well CMC did his mea culpa on the drawbacks so we know that losing weapon swap on Bladesworn will be removed at some point. That was the stated drawback. I can see them reworking Armaments into being more like kits and having Gunsaber be moved to the elite slot. What I would do then is put the Dragon Trigger bar onto the Function keys directly. Tap F1-F3 to start charging the bullets, tap again to release. DSD proc's its effects on the first tap. Daring Dragon removes the CDs on F1-F3 but caps their charge level. Charging drains flow as always, but flow does not decay out of combat anymore. 

[Lighter.5631]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I've said this before: Add Core F2 Bursts for the OH weapons and a second F2 for 2H weapons. Let those new bursts fill in gaps in the weapon's gameplay. Warhorn for instance would have a healing burst that grants protection, and with the trait would gain alacrity. GS could get an AoE pull or knockdown. OH sword could get a fast attack that applies a large amount of torment. There is so much that Anet could do by opening that design space up.

For Bladesworn, well CMC did his mea culpa on the drawbacks so we know that losing weapon swap on Bladesworn will be removed at some point. That was the stated drawback. I can see them reworking Armaments into being more like kits and having Gunsaber be moved to the elite slot. What I would do then is put the Dragon Trigger bar onto the Function keys directly. Tap F1-F3 to start charging the bullets, tap again to release. DSD proc's its effects on the first tap. Daring Dragon removes the CDs on F1-F3 but caps their charge level. Charging drains flow as always, but flow does not decay out of combat anymore. 

i mean bladesworn still has one normal weapon set, get the core burst back for that one to f1, simply put gunsaber swapping to weapon swap key, we don't need 2 keys for it, and give gunsaber a new burst skill that act like normal burst skill. then keep the dragon trigger to f2 like it already is. this would fix so much design flaws. tho does not fix the lack of gameplay diversity, which can only be changed with weapon skill and utility changes.

[Xperiment.6923]

Started 6 months ago after a 10 year hiatus. My main is Warrior although I feel like a kitten in PvP. Recently switched to Herald and holy Sata Claus! Feels like Rev offers way much more. Warrior feels completely unspecial. I can be mediocre dps with mediocre survivability, mediocre dps with mediocre survivability or mediocre dps with mediocre survivability.

 

What will make warrior special? In every other mmo you see a Warrior and you say... shoot...I hope I can take this guy. I know we dont give a kitten about holy trinity here but I'm a Warrior give me at least the best survivability in the game if all a have is mediocre melee and joke range.

 

I cant believe they let all 8 other classes power creep and left Warrior as some relic of a 2013 launch. All weapons suck, sucky synergy with traits.

 

If we are to be the weapon masters...make that our strength! Clean up all weapons and traits and give us some build variety. If they could make all weapons legit I think it would be really unique to give us the only class with a 3rd weapon swap if it was possible to code. That way we can decide on the fly between melee/range/support/bunker. Just my 2 cents.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

i mean bladesworn still has one normal weapon set, get the core burst back for that one to f1, simply put gunsaber swapping to weapon swap key, we don't need 2 keys for it, and give gunsaber a new burst skill that act like normal burst skill. then keep the dragon trigger to f2 like it already is. this would fix so much design flaws. tho does not fix the lack of gameplay diversity, which can only be changed with weapon skill and utility changes.

Yeah, I know. But CMC during the reveal explicitly called out the loss of weapon swap as the tradeoff which they have started to revert. Changing out the core bursts for other mechanics is fine, but depends on how they do it.

I personally would rather them streamline Dragon Trigger and have that bar available at all times and then turn armaments into kits with gunsaber as the elite. That would make more sense to me for Bladesworn. If they could streamline it and bring back weapon swap and core F1s then sure I'd take it. However, the jank needs to be corrected and DT is a massive part of the jank.

[Jzaku.9765]

I once posited that for whatever bizzare reason, Warrior's burst skill is considered part of the power budget of the weapon it's tied too. As in, having a very strong burst skill is "balanced out" by having weaker weapon skills, meaning Warrior has no power budget for what should be our "class mechanic". Glad to see someone else coming to this conclusion. 

[Zuko.7132]

8 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I once posited that for whatever bizzare reason, Warrior's burst skill is considered part of the power budget of the weapon it's tied too. As in, having a very strong burst skill is "balanced out" by having weaker weapon skills, meaning Warrior has no power budget for what should be our "class mechanic". Glad to see someone else coming to this conclusion. 

Ya it is bizarre. It’s been a problem for way too long. Just try running longbow or gs with no burst skill. It’s pathetic. There’s a reason everyone runs axe on bs.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Zuko.7132
Grammar

[Lighter.5631]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, I know. But CMC during the reveal explicitly called out the loss of weapon swap as the tradeoff which they have started to revert. Changing out the core bursts for other mechanics is fine, but depends on how they do it.

 

i never said give back second weapon slot tho, second weapon is still gunsaber.

just give back the f1 to the weapon we have, also give another new f1 burst to gunsaber, and keep dragon trigger to f2. 

the trade off is not losing "weapon swap" because clearly you are still swapping between first weapon set and gunsaber even with the same old weapon swap key when you swap out of gunsaber, the trade off is trading one weapon set for gunsaber.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lighter.5631]

2 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I once posited that for whatever bizzare reason, Warrior's burst skill is considered part of the power budget of the weapon it's tied too. As in, having a very strong burst skill is "balanced out" by having weaker weapon skills, meaning Warrior has no power budget for what should be our "class mechanic". Glad to see someone else coming to this conclusion. 

yea, they need to realize how core burst is literally balanced as part of the mandatory mechanic, like ele having 4 attunements, rev having 1 legend, you don't see them removing one attunement or legend for elite specs.

 

that's literally the reason why they added core burst back to Berserker. warrior is unplayable without burst, sure you have perma berserk in raid, but in open world etc, when you fall out of berserk, or you want to save berserk for something stronger, you literally do 0 damage for the lack of burst skill on weapon sets, not to mention how clunky the gameplay was. that literally caused nobody to play warrior at all.

 

same goes for bladesworn , they removed too much for trade-off, the trade-off of having only one weapon set is enough, but on top of removing 2 burst skills?

they need to give core burst back, just like how they give back core for berserker, so the class can stop being so clunky. and give a burst like dagger has that's separate from full counter on gunsaber.

and keep the dragon trigger as f2 like full counter/berserk as the real class mechanic, if guardian can turn a F skill into an entire set of skill bar, warrior should have dragon trigger as f2 no problem at all, not to mention it's actually really just one skill in the end.

and give an f2 skill for core warrior

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

43 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

i never said give back second weapon slot tho, second weapon is still gunsaber.

just give back the f1 to the weapon we have, also give another new f1 burst to gunsaber, and keep dragon trigger to f2. 

the trade off is not losing "weapon swap" because clearly you are still swapping between first weapon set and gunsaber even with the same old weapon swap key when you swap out of gunsaber, the trade off is trading one weapon set for gunsaber.

I understand your perspective, but CMC explicitly called out the loss of weapon swap of that second weapon set as the tradeoff. They have begun reverting the tradeoffs that the imposed on other specs, ergo that means that bladesworn would get weapon swap added back in.

[Lighter.5631]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I understand your perspective, but CMC explicitly called out the loss of weapon swap of that second weapon set as the tradeoff. They have begun reverting the tradeoffs that the imposed on other specs, ergo that means that bladesworn would get weapon swap added back in.

but bladesworn is still swapping out of gunsaber using weapon swap tho. so there's not really no weapon swap to begin with.

and swaping gunsaber also proc sigil too.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Lighter.5631 said:

but bladesworn is still swapping out of gunsaber using weapon swap tho. so there's not really no weapon swap to begin with.

and swaping gunsaber also proc sigil too.

As I said. I understand your perspective, but the loss of that second weapon set in lieu of Gunsaber was explicitly stated as the tradeoff for the elite spec.

[Lighter.5631]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

As I said. I understand your perspective, but the loss of that second weapon set in lieu of Gunsaber was explicitly stated as the tradeoff for the elite spec.

yea exactly, my proposition is never mentioned anything about changing that tho

keep the one weapon set and keep the gunsaber, just give burst skill back, give a new burst for gunsaber, keep the dragon trigger to f2 is my original statment, which is why i get confused for the mention of giving back weapon swap from your post.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

yea exactly, my proposition is never mentioned anything about changing that tho

keep the one weapon set and keep the gunsaber, just give burst skill back, give a new burst for gunsaber, keep the dragon trigger to f2 is my original statment, which is why i get confused for the mention of giving back weapon swap from your post.

Wouldn't Dragon Slash just be the burst for Gunsaber though? Why would we need Dragon Trigger then?

Not trying to confuse you btw. I'll repost my first statement on BSW:
For Bladesworn, well CMC did his mea culpa on the drawbacks so we know that losing weapon swap on Bladesworn will be removed at some point. That was the stated drawback. I can see them reworking Armaments into being more like kits and having Gunsaber be moved to the elite slot. What I would do then is put the Dragon Trigger bar onto the Function keys directly. Tap F1-F3 to start charging the bullets, tap again to release. DSD proc's its effects on the first tap. Daring Dragon removes the CDs on F1-F3 but caps their charge level. Charging drains flow as always, but flow does not decay out of combat anymore. 

Important tidbit bolded. Asking for meaningful changes is all well and good, but I think it is important to keep that part in mind. They stated that they will be removing the tradeoffs/drawbacks for taking the elite specs. CMC stated at the reveal of Bladesworn that the loss of the second weapon set was that tradeoff since it gained the Gunsaber. If they are removing these tradeoffs then Bladesworn would then gain back that second weapon set.

Unless Gunsaber gets turned into an elite kit then it would remain on the Profession Mechanic bar. Do we want Core F1, F2 to unsheath Gunsaber, then F3 to enter Dragon Trigger? That is what I see them doing if they added core bursts back in. Seeing as Gunsaber is in a weird bundle/not bundle state I think they wouldn't give it a burst but you'd be able to use the burst of your prior weapon set with it. If you've never done so, you can use your profession mechanic skills while a bundle is being held, so technically if they let core bursts back in you'd be able to use them with Gunsaber.

The rest of my original statement on BSW is just how I would personally streamline it considering CMC's prior statements on reverting tradeoffs.

[Yerlock.4678]

18 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I've said this before: Add Core F2 Bursts for the OH weapons and a second F2 for 2H weapons. Let those new bursts fill in gaps in the weapon's gameplay. Warhorn for instance would have a healing burst that grants protection, and with the trait would gain alacrity. GS could get an AoE pull or knockdown. OH sword could get a fast attack that applies a large amount of torment. There is so much that Anet could do by opening that design space up.

For Bladesworn, well CMC did his mea culpa on the drawbacks so we know that losing weapon swap on Bladesworn will be removed at some point. That was the stated drawback. I can see them reworking Armaments into being more like kits and having Gunsaber be moved to the elite slot. What I would do then is put the Dragon Trigger bar onto the Function keys directly. Tap F1-F3 to start charging the bullets, tap again to release. DSD proc's its effects on the first tap. Daring Dragon removes the CDs on F1-F3 but caps their charge level. Charging drains flow as always, but flow does not decay out of combat anymore. 

Woah an f2 from offhand weapons or from two handed weapons would go such a long way on core. Core just doesn't have the skill ceiling required to compete with the especs rn and that would definitely help. Fixing up janky skills/weapons with that change on core could be seriously viable.

Edited May 10, 2023 by gmmg.9210

[Sobx.1758]

F1 on weapon swap is your "F2" though?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

21 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

F1 on weapon swap is your "F2" though?

If that were on F2 and would swap to that weapon upon using it then sure.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, gmmg.9210 said:

Woah an f2 from offhand weapons or from two handed weapons would go such a long way on core. Core just doesn't have the skill ceiling required to compete with the especs rn and that would definitely help. Fixing up janky skills/weapons with that change on core could be seriously viable.

It would add a lot of depth wouldn't it.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

44 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'll keep a seat warm for you for when you come back.

I hope the day comes

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I hope the day comes

They're promising a big balance patch next month. Maybe there will be noice things in it.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If that were on F2 and would swap to that weapon upon using it then sure.

Why is that a requirement?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why is that a requirement?

combos that swap to weapons without triggering weapon swap CD?

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

combos that swap to weapons without triggering weapon swap CD?

So now it's not about second f key available but about nullifying weaponswap cd. Doesn't seem too reasonable to me, but ok 😄

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why is that a requirement?

Why not?

I think it's a reasonable request.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Style opened to warrior by inclusion of 4s weaponswap trait. Yet another way to dismiss weaponswap cd that everyone in the game obeys doesn't seem reasonable here, even moreso as an outcome from this request.

Except Engineer technically. Warrior having a mechanic to move in and out of weapons quickly isn't unreasonable on it's face.

That said, the secondary weapon set burst being available on weapon swap isn't the 'F2' like you were implying.