A single block on a single weapon is not more enough or justifiable in 2023

[Arheundel.6451]

Can we have additional sources of block on this class? more stability, please?

The ranged potential of other professions has drastically increased over the years, in most cases they match or even surpass the simple LB gameplay, while having access to bigger damage coefficients and lower requirements to make use of burst abilities. In addition, pretty much everything these days has Goku Teleporting abilities...so screw your pewpew chance at positioning. In 2023, and the ranger is the only class where I need to forsake any resemblance of sustain or utility to have enough dmg to scare people off, playing power builds has become increasingly harder on ranger, with sustain being more or less the same...while again other professions now got access to an excessive amount of active defences along with heal burst traits with high base coefficient at 0 Healing power, following is an example:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Balance_in_Discord

Yeah....don't think anything gonna change much for Ranger but I still feel that it's rather.... unsavoury to even login on this class, everything around me it's just a rotation of blocks/healburst with 0 healing powers, vulnerabilities, distortion dragged up to a flat 15s every 30s or so...meanwhile I see myself dodging for dear life 3/4 of the time...and the enemy brazenly facetank any resemblance of damage I can muster when I manage to find a window of opportunity between one block rotation and another.

In 2023...and this below, it's all Ranger got to avoid being insta gibbed by a burst:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Counterattack

So you either play a condi bunker or GS build, you cannot have a non GS build outside condi bunker in a competitive environment, pretty restrictive gameplay, and the main reason why the idea of zerg support or zerg bruiser, should be laughed at, this class has zero...0...active defences outside GS, a misstep and you die when ganked...

[Beddo.1907]

Have you heard about our lord and saviour, dodge button?

Anyway, Untamed has a lot of damage counter stuff and that doesn't change much.

[Zyreva.1078]

Ranger already has great survivability. It can't kill other tanky stuff, because it doesn't have a (good) answer to boon spam and all sorts of active defenses, but that's not fixed by making the class even tankier. The game needs overall less sustain, boons and spammable active defenses, not even more of that nonsense.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:06 AM, Zyreva.1078 said:

Ranger already has great survivability. It can't kill other tanky stuff, because it doesn't have a (good) answer to boon spam and all sorts of active defenses, but that's not fixed by making the class even tankier. The game needs overall less sustain, boons and spammable active defenses, not even more of that nonsense.

What you think the game needs, won't change anything and I can guarantee the devs won't remove the huge sustain powercreep, other professions have enjoyed for the last 5years or so. At high levels, once you remove the paltry stealth and the GS block...you are left with...nothing really that cannot be outsustained by other professions with medium effort at best

[felix.2386]

have you heard our lord and savior, evade frame?

it's 100x better than block because it does not get countered by a million unblockable out there.

oh and the most op mechanic that's called stealth.

also untamed is the strongest pvp build right now.

oh and the evade frames from swoop and kick are 10x better than the block you have in terms of sustain.

Edited June 4, 2023 by felix.2386

[Zyreva.1078]

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

What you think the game needs, won't change anything

Ok, but it's different for you? Sure ...

They have already buffed ranger sustain a lot (slb in particular) - and it didn't change a single bit for ranger's state in any game mode - because more survivability is not what it needs.

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

At high levels, once you remove the paltry stealth and the GS block...you are left with...nothing really that cannot be outsustained by other professions with medium effort at best

Any class is left with "nothing" if you simply pretend half of what makes it good isn't there.

Fact is, ranger has very strong options in every single game mode and in those situations where the class does struggle, it is not due to a lack of survivability. If you can't survive on ranger - it's not on the class.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

oh and the evade frames from swoop and kick are 10x better than the block you have in terms of sustain.

Disagreed. The block is a large part of defense on GS.The evade frame of kick requires a successful block beforehand and swoop needs a nearby target in order for the evade to be aviable right away. So both evades are conditional not not always accessible when you need them. The block is always there on the other hand and it's not like everything is unblockable.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

have you heard our lord and savior, evade frame?

it's 100x better than block because it does not get countered by a million unblockable out there.

oh and the most op mechanic that's called stealth.

also untamed is the strongest pvp build right now.

oh and the evade frames from swoop and kick are 10x better than the block you have in terms of sustain.

It seems an untamed was able to signet of the hunt through your shield parry while on spellbreaker...

[Arheundel.6451]

11 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Ok, but it's different for you? Sure ...

They have already buffed ranger sustain a lot (slb in particular) - and it didn't change a single bit for ranger's state in any game mode - because more survivability is not what it needs.

Any class is left with "nothing" if you simply pretend half of what makes it good isn't there.

Fact is, ranger has very strong options in every single game mode and in those situations where the class does struggle, it is not due to a lack of survivability. If you can't survive on ranger - it's not on the class.

It's not that it's different for me...my statement is based on common sense and what Anet has already stated in a blog:

They specifically want this sustain powercreep to facilitate new players in the game, they made these easy-to-play juggernauts like vindicators, renegade, mechanist, virtuoso etc etc...to attract more casuals to the game. And in that sense, it works for them, new players come to GW2 thx to those specs and it's all great and all for the community but...what happens when vets then start using those same specs?

I had this type of thread on ele, warrior and guardian....somehow they all got what I was asking for catalyst -bladesworn and willbender. In every single thread...I encountered the same type of reactions in all of them, and now all those laughing at my suggestion are playing those specs zealously.

I had people against me on the ele thread, calling me names and:" go play something else if ele is too hard for you...ele is fine..blah blah blah....and scepter doesn't need buff...we have enough sustain...blah blah..I like complexity" blah blah...all virtue signalling and pompadour when all I was suggesting was to bring ele at the same level of effort of other professions, and weaver was not ideal for that. Months later we got catalyst..and then scepter and staff buffs, and do you think this happened because my words count more than yours?.....no no.....it's because my suggestion was the most common thing to do.

Adding more active defences to Ranger got nothing to do with increasing sustain, it's all about increasing build diversity, and when you are forced to use GS in every competitive build vs high players...that's not what I'd call build diversity.

Nowhere in this thread, I have suggested anything crazy, a single additional block on another weapon will not make this game worst than it is, it would be simply a way to bring Ranger in line with other professions in 2023. I am all for effort=reward, it should be equal in every profession, equality is not imbalance...on the contrary, it's the very definition of balance.

First, we need a solid and homogeneous base for all professions then...those who feel the game is too easy for them... can go and play naked afterwards. The majority of the player base..I'd say 90%, don't care about any talk of skill level on the forum, people just want to win with the least amount of effort, that 90% is the customer base and Anet made specs for them that allow to win with the least amount of effort, it would be high time for the ranger to join the fray in a sensible manner, and adding an additional source of block would be a good start, anything to increase the active defences on the class 

Now, if you have anything other than personal opinion, go on and keep alive the discussion with a counter-argument explaining how the current ranger can keep up with others without GS and/or stealth on every single build. Your mindset is focused on 1v1...but the game is not just 1vs1, if players want to support in PvP/WvW or have a more frontline role...they need more active defence, no way around it. When you are trying to support people with a druid and you get focused, what will you do? stealth and run away?...

Edited June 4, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[Arheundel.6451]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:52 PM, Beddo.1907 said:

Have you heard about our lord and saviour, dodge button?

Anyway, Untamed has a lot of damage counter stuff and that doesn't change much.

Because that's not a level of defence good enough outside a favourable 1v1, where you are against specs that can't close distance easily enough.The whole spec crumbles the second you have a +1 from a bruiser or somebody brings stealth removal. You need more than that in 2023....everybody got super mobility, flying and teleport, CC spam for days etc etc etc...this is not 2012 anymore where the argument "oh ranger is a good duellist"....nobody cares. In 2023 other professions can cross the whole map in seconds and still be able to team fight...with the same spec, just used to hold far against your ranger...which in return can't do the same 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Yeah, Ranger GS has a great deal of defense to it. It doesn't need any more unless you're also willing to lose damage on it.

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Adding more active defences to Ranger got nothing to do with increasing sustain, it's all about increasing build diversity, and when you are forced to use GS in every competitive build vs high players...that's not what I'd call build diversity.

At the highest lvl of competitive play build diversity is fairly low for every class. And 99,99% of players will never play at that level anyway. There's only so much options for "optimal" builds. But just slightly below that many builds can work for ranger and gs isn't mandatory at all.

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Nowhere in this thread, I have suggested anything crazy, a single additional block on another weapon will not make this game worst than it is, it would be simply a way to bring Ranger in line with other professions in 2023.

Adding another block (where even?) does nothing, except maybe make it even easier to stalemate vs builds without unblockables. What's the point?

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Your mindset is focused on 1v1...but the game is not just 1vs1, if players want to support in PvP/WvW or have a more frontline role...they need more active defence, no way around it. When you are trying to support people with a druid and you get focused, what will you do? stealth and run away?...

I don't care about 1vs1. I'm primarily fighting 1vsX or outnumbered with a few guildies in WvW and doing so just fine without blocks (as you might have noticed 😉 ). And yes, stealth can be a valuable tool to deal with getting focused, not just for yourself but also for allies - something most other supports can't provide.

Ultimatively when it comes to survivability in zerg fights there is and always will be a lot of dependency on allies and most zerg meta builds don't have much active defenses at all (just look at scourge or fb - way easier to focus down than any ranger). Again, adding another block to ranger would do absolutely nothing to its state in those instances. Druid is already considered a decent zerg support and slb works just fine at mid to small scale (and probably large scale too if players would give it a chance and the average ranger player wouldn't be so bad and insisting on pew pewing into reflects). Untamed struggles in WvW outside of 1vs1, but once again that has nothing to do with lack of active defense, it's mostly it's reliance on pets and pets being dead a lot of the time as well as lack of role to fit in, as other classes can do everything it does better, whether it's (aoe) dmg, cc or boon stripping.

(Also using ele scepter buffs as example for reasonable balance changes is a bad joke - it removed almost all other builds from the meta, scepter cata was (arguably still is) one of the most owerpowered builds to ever exist - but at least it shows where you are really coming from when talking about balance and build diversity).

Edited June 4, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Downstate.4697]

I don’t disagree but that has more to do with lack of viable weapons and utilities in PvP. Anet needs to give condi cleanse options that exist outside of wilderness survival. This alone limits utility choice. The reason untamed is good right now is it’s added utility from its mechanics and not needing to go wilderness survival. 

[Arheundel.6451]

On 6/5/2023 at 2:03 PM, Downstate.4697 said:

I don’t disagree but that has more to do with lack of viable weapons and utilities in PvP. Anet needs to give condi cleanse options that exist outside of wilderness survival. This alone limits utility choice. The reason untamed is good right now is it’s added utility from its mechanics and not needing to go wilderness survival. 

 Untamed would work decently if the pet mechanic would not be so trash...pet mechanic is absolutely god awful 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Arheundel.6451