Please leave improv alone

[interitio.4269]

It's one of the few fun traits left on thief. It's called improvisation for a reason, what exactly are we supposed to improvise by shaving some % of cds?

The change clearly shows that the balance team still has the same mentality that caused them to give "tradeoffs" to especs. Your game has no esports, stop prioritizing bland homogeneous "balance" over FUN. I won't even go over how this change actually is a nerf because quite honestly I don't care. deadly arts was already barely viable ever since the change to mug, but I was still playing it. You know why?? cause it was still more fun than the brain-dead gameplay of SA.

 

there's no sind stream to whine about thief balance this time around so i put it here

Edited June 10, 2023 by interitio.4269

[FrancisN.9276]

I think their aim was to remove the randomness of Improvisation and make the class more reliable, esspecially for boon providers. However, I do feel like it's a nerf somewhat, especially if the %CD reduction is 10-20% across 3 utilities, compared to the previous 100% in one random utility. Even if it is 33% across 3 utilities, we have to proc all 3 utilities and still have to wait for reduced CD to tick off (compared to the guaranteed instant recharge of a utility if all 3 are in CD).

Edited June 10, 2023 by FrancisN.9276
Clarification

[interitio.4269]

But don't you think that randomness is part of the original design of the trait? the change makes no sense to me in terms of either game design, fun, or balance. It's poorly thought out.

[Doggie.3184]

If the shave is substancial it'd be fun. Shadow Flare will be 20s instead of 30~ should be even lower considering it only does most of it's dmg to mark only, but with Thief Rifle and Pistols continuing to sadly be the only range weapons in game cursed with being single-target only, Flare would be the only way to do any AoE. Hopefully it can be used very often with this trait.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Honestly this could be huge for quick deadeye builds taking improv, mercy and something else along with Mark spamming and new fire for Effect. Improv would reduce mercy and mercy would refresh mark, if u can still use stolen skills (steal time) twice its gonna be epic quick meta

[Routa.4136]

Nobody ever cared about Improvisation's lack of viability in PvE, as it's a trait that directly competes with Executioner and Potent Poison. I doubt many will care about the trait even after the change, either. Where it hurts are the competitive modes, where most thieves struggle to find any reason to run Deadly Arts over Shadow Arts, an objectively far stronger trait line.

As one of those stubborn Deadly Arts knuckleheads, I won't knock it until I try it - the new Improv could be good. If it isn't, well, I guess Shadow Arts it is. Everyone loses in this situation, the five people who still favour Deadly Arts over Shadow Arts will be forced to switch and enjoy the game less, and the rest of the competitive community will have to make peace with facing more SA thieves.

It isn't like Deadly Arts is new to good competitive traits being neutered on the altar of "but it's better in PvE this way", see Exposed Weakness.

Your call.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Routa.4136

[DeceiverX.8361]

On one hand, the gameplay loop is neat as the thief when you have a diverse set of skills at fairly low levels of individual power and you have to adapt on the fly.  On the other hand, it's horrible to be on the receiving end of when people get a reset on Deceptions, because you have absolutely no idea they just got another two teleports, three stun breaks, and an extra source of stealth for free, because 90% of thieves are running Shadowstep and BP regardless of their build.

Which given the above, makes it increasingly harder to assign power budget to thief utilities individually.

Frankly, I've been in the camp that this trait shouldn't exist fr years now due to RNG just not being fun in competitive, but given how weak kitten is in competitive... I'm not really sure why they felt the need to start with Improv of all things.

In-line with this patch of unused skills/weapons should have been OH Dagger if anything.

But given how they ignored most of the already-unused weapons for other professions, I'm not surprised lol.

[Bankrotas.8215]

8 hours ago, Routa.4136 said:

I doubt many will care about the trait even after the change, either

FFE Deadeye build I had used improv. With guaranteed quickness, it's a buff for that build.

[Vornollo.5182]

I'd like a split here between PvE and Competitive modes.
The new iteration definitely benefits PvE, but it's lost all flavour. Worse, playmaking potential for competitive modes takes a big hit.

Getting more and more forced into Shadow Arts, sadly...

Edited June 13, 2023 by Vornollo.5182
phrasing

[interitio.4269]

Yeah it seems most PvE players are happy with this change judging by the reacts. I hope your soulless, uncharacteristic button pressing machine gets you big numbers and so much gold per hour so you can buy the newest skin made by contractors in china! WOW! so much fun!

[pninak.1069]

think they want to remove the rng-aspect of it. and it recharges a percentage which is a big plus. I assume we can expect at max 33% reduction since it previously did 100% reduction on one of the three slots. the least is propably 11% since they might not want it to speedup the recharge in use with payback. I assume they gonna take 10% then since it makes more sense from a logical viewpoint than 11%. I like this trait and agree that they should get rid of rng. Think it is a bit trouble issue among players since rng can decide whether you win a fight or not.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:27 PM, interitio.4269 said:

But don't you think that randomness is part of the original design of the trait? the change makes no sense to me in terms of either game design, fun, or balance. It's poorly thought out.

Yea, the randomness is what made it so dynamic. It's a big brain mechanic that makes engagements unique, atleast for pvp. I can see why pve players like the change, but it's a boring change and improv was really the only reason to take DE in pvp. If they don't keep the 2 ammo count, then DE is dead

[Bern.9613]

I'm pretty sure they want to remove ALL skill, utility, trait cd reductions from thief. Look at their history of "balance", "trade off" for the thief. Hidden thief, trickster, signets of power, to name a few.