So is the goals with the nerfs and new wvw changes to make it one dimension?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its cuz anet is playing 1d chess

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 6/15/2023 at 3:37 AM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Of course the Esports dream failed

I mean that was kind of a given considering the balance was pretty poor even then, and there was no actual way to spectate games aside from special tournament software builds on localized PC's sanctioned by ANet.

The amulet system also got rid of a lot of possible experimentation and tweaking people like to do in order to actually navigate metagame strategies.  That's honestly the biggest reason WvW was successful; the sheer scope of options made for a way more diverse and interesting gameplay pattern.

Even since launch, ANet while running GW2 historically hasn't understood how to handle a PvP atmosphere for some reason.

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:42 PM, DeceiverX.8361 said:

I mean that was kind of a given considering the balance was pretty poor even then, and there was no actual way to spectate games aside from special tournament software builds on localized PC's sanctioned by ANet.

Yea that made no sense. Added in to the fact that Gw2 was not a very spectator friendly game (heck even players can have trouble seeing what's going on). And it's only gotten worse.

It just didn't have the correct infrastructure or tools to make any kind of community with either.

On 6/18/2023 at 9:42 PM, DeceiverX.8361 said:

The amulet system also got rid of a lot of possible experimentation and tweaking people like to do in order to actually navigate metagame strategies.  That's honestly the biggest reason WvW was successful; the sheer scope of options made for a way more diverse and interesting gameplay pattern.

Well, always cringed when people asked for that very system to be in WvW. It's not like viable stat selection hasn't already shrunk by a lot. The only real interest is in runes and sigils and they didn't make any more.

On 6/18/2023 at 9:42 PM, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Even since launch, ANet while running GW2 historically hasn't understood how to handle a PvP atmosphere for some reason.

They stopped being ambitious in pushing the player to do stuff. Though this applies to the game as a whole.

I mean just look at this fractal hype video from back then: (but esp @ 1:30)

Hmm, large telegraphs that punishes you for failing to react, in an effort to get players to get better at the game? Crazy concepts. I'd rather just have vomit all over the battlefield and yell at my healer to heal me instead.

 

You get the idea that the devs cared about what they made. They pushed themselves, and made the content to push the players.

Aka something widely known as "skill" to gamers.

Does anything released in the past few years even convey anything that really tries to bring up the best in players? Well, here and there.   Then again, there would always be players that would cry that they're being "excluded" from rewards because they suck so I guess that's why they shied away from it. Understandable to a degree.

And what about WvW?

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

On 6/13/2023 at 3:32 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

That’s great! The wvw community that isn’t in team chat is actually fantastic! You just need to, ya know, talk to people. It’s really easy tog eat pug groups going, but people just assume no one would follow them.

Spoiler; no one cares if you are a kitten commander because most of them know they’d be as bad or worse.

If someone does, offer them the tag, and if they don’t have one, ignore them. 

I’m a vet from the early years of wvw. I actually enjoy joining and supporting a tag that is obviously new.  Often they want some advice but mostly I just follow quietly unless they’re doing something real insane.  You gotta learn somehow and trial and error is the best.  

[Ultima.5280]

Blame the players to farm EXPM (but giving EXPM ×2 to attract them (and a grindy wvw mastery system))

Blame the players to avoid defending capped points and follow tag like sheeps.

 

But Necro grab from wall, Meteor shower and LB 5 is healthy, imagine being able to use defenses from walls as defenders LMAO.

Cata stacking on walls is healthy, imagine having dps nerf for siege stacking to slow zerg LMAO.

EWP is healthy because it fixes some issues (like following a big squad in other map because wvw is dead empty) EWP is healthy if the maps are full or atleast ± equaly populated by 3 servers.

But I don’t think dev wants putting queue for 20 players if a 30 people squad move in a 10v10v10 players map to fix the number disavantages, why no dynamic server size ? Because squad players are 90% of the wvw playerbase ?

Maybe my vision of the wvw is not the best, I will be really interested about opinions about it, even if we all know that dev are in full copium thinking that Alliance will fix ANY of the problem.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ultima.5280

[Yngvi.3452]

On 6/15/2023 at 2:37 AM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I don't really think there's a goal.

My thought is the balance changes in this game generally take the path of least resistance; eg whatever is less work for them. For the vast majority of the game's existence, the classes have always been balanced around what they do in pve. WvW is merely the minigame that sometimes gets the extra thought when there's nothing better to do.

It seems more that they don't know what to do about WvW. It was probably never intended to be as popular as it turned out to be. Originally, WvW was supposed to be the bridge to Esports PvP. It was a place where people could come from pve and visit a game mode with pve and pvp elements.

Of course the Esports dream failed, and WvW is basically just a bridge to nowhere. Meanwhile the focus is on casual pve content and there really is no need for balance there. The highest level of play desired in this game now basically is about who can hit a target dummy the hardest and moaning about it when you realize you can only hit a target dummy 92% as hard as someone else.

I don't envy the designers for sure.** It's been years of neglect and general apathy that really drove away too many that cared and it's just really hard to steer the game in any direction. Surely, many of you despise that style of play, but there are probably those in their ear that do and for whatever reason they're winning.

And regardless of what anyone considers "skilled" play, I do not believe the community at large really cares about that. In fact, a lot of people seem to despise any form of skill expression.

But could you blame them? A player new to WvW, not necessarily new to the game, seems all this aoe boon cc vomit in big fights. And then trying to get away from this lag fest, they run into unkillable bunkers with near infinite mobility.

And then maybe after a few hours they see some sensible fights but it lasts all of 10 minutes because they can't balance population with nonsensical links. What do you think these people outside of the WvWer bubble see? Trashy, poorly thought out (actually, zero thoughts in) "gameplay" that isn't worth the time of day to bother with.

** I mean this in all earnest in that I don't hold too much against the current employees. In fact, if you gave me complete control over the game right now, I probably couldn't save WvW either. It's just sad really.

fighting huge squads in the last week has made me think they don't need anything else to run HUGE invunrable squads... the changes will just make it easier for those squads to take over the entire maps and just farm any stragglers that run by.  Pretty sad.  Just going to induce the upswing of ktrains again.  Everyone else will leave the maps.  How about put limits on HUGE squads.  Reduce boon time, make it extremely expensive to put down siege and reduce points for gutlessly running down one guy which even now has no way of out running them.   Pretty sad...

If your going to reduce range/amount of boon strippers atleast prevent the squad from instantly getting them back by putting a ward on the ones that have been stripped so they can't put boons up for several seconds after.  HUGE squads are going to make lag even worse than it is now and most of the good players that don't want to be part of their feeding frenzy atleast will be able to play.   

Not to mention the toxic guild play thats going to occur when those 5 guilds take over the game.   It will be worse than what it was 6 years ago. 

I think the direction your going is wrong anet and will just cause a mass exodis after everyone gets thoroughly bored with running around in a huge group doing the same thing over and over until everyone goes away run.  People in this game can be very toxic specially guilds that run huge squads.  How are you going to prevent that?   

Or maybe make a new map where these HUGE Squads can run with out interfereing with ppl that just want to fun.   

Edited June 23, 2023 by Yngvi.3452