Bladesworn - Shield Master trait

[pninak.1069]

ppl always find new ways. even if you removed the trait or reworked it another class easily finds another one. anet has made a lot of similiar mistakes in gw1 and they pretty much haven't changed their way of balancing. that's what gamers  are. they look for the best possible solution or even option to break a game.

my overall view is that gw2's combat is slow and slower than its predecessor's. they want it to be faster thus add more dmg. although overall there is too much dmg in the game imo.

I like that they mix up the meta so much with the new patch. my assumption is that some of the heavy nerfs might not even be valued as nerfs, but pseudo buffs.

gw1 had similiar effects to stealth and projetile prevention in form of spell target prevention skills: shadowform, obsidian flesh and spellbreaker. in pvp they changed it this way. shadow form lasts at max 15 sec and you lose all but a tiny hp amount, while during its duration you can't be hit no matter what. spellbreaker duration was gutted and obsidian flesh works in theory, but relies on outside dmg for energy management.

the way you describe bs sounds more like it behaves in line of yolosmith or a saccer.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

18 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

my overall view is that gw2's combat is slow and slower than its predecessor's. they want it to be faster thus add more dmg. although overall there is too much dmg in the game imo.

We have a fundamental disagreement about the state of damage in this game, and that's probably why we have differing opinions on this.

whichever way you want to cut or frame it, "Guy A hits Guy B, Guy B doesn't flinch" is never good in competitive games where it is the rule and not the exception. It's boring. People will get bored of you not having to interact with them and do something else. Nobody's here to watch "Bladesworn doesnt lose HP: The Movie:" Unless the means by which the bladesworn is doing that is itself impressive.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[pninak.1069]

do ppl despise having a challenge that much?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

9 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

do ppl despise having a challenge that much?

No, but I usually value challenges born from thoughtful play, strategic setups, and combat pressure much, much more than I value challenges where the difficulty is born from "I have a lot of HP" or "I can outheal/mitigate damage faster than you can deal it". 

I surmise most people are the same~ Every major population loss we've had for PVP to date has been associated with some sort of patch introducing an immortal build into the meta. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[vilesoldier.9826]

16 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

do ppl despise having a challenge that much?

 

Most BSWs do, that's why they run BSW. I've actively seen this many times, SpBs that I can outpace will swap to BSW specifically to interact less.

Edited June 26, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[pninak.1069]

it is the other way around actually. you don't want to deal with having to hit a single time and want to stay with your build thus forcing others to change theirs. that won't do. and unlike most of the community I am fine with whatever anet decides to do in its balance patches. since most of my builds are off-meta anyways I mostly end up getting buffs rather than nerfs.

Edited June 26, 2023 by pninak.1069

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, pninak.1069 said:

it is the other way around actually. you don't want to deal with having to hit a single time and want to stay with your build thus forcing others to change theirs. that won't do

No matter how you try to shift the onus, a build that is immortal in 1v1 scenarios due to its mechanics is not something to be adapted to. 

Think about what you said for three seconds. I'll steelman for you.

Let's say you're right; a person doesn't want to change their build originally, but then sees the error of their ways and decides that in order to continue playing, they must adapt their build.

Adapt to what? In what direction? The bladesworn build is almost immune to projectiles and outheals even glass cannon damage. There's nothing to adapt to except not fighting it unless it's a 2v1. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Dahkeus.8243]

Things are going down a bit of a rabbit hole, but I do find it a bit laughable that people are talking about a zerker build like it's a bunker build because of aegis. 

Could the aegis availability be nerfed a bit to make it more of a decisive action than one that can benefit from spamming?  Yes. 

Is it still a decisive action for players that play the build well? Yes. 

Should the reflect aspect be removed?  No.  If you remove it, then it'll just be food to ranged attacks.

Can the aegis be out-played by ranged builds as it is now? Yes.  See previous post of mine.

[Leo G.4501]

14 minutes ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Things are going down a bit of a rabbit hole, but I do find it a bit laughable that people are talking about a zerker build like it's a bunker build because of aegis. 

Could the aegis availability be nerfed a bit to make it more of a decisive action than one that can benefit from spamming?  Yes. 

Is it still a decisive action for players that play the build well? Yes. 

Should the reflect aspect be removed?  No.  If you remove it, then it'll just be food to ranged attacks.

Can the aegis be out-played by ranged builds as it is now? Yes.  See previous post of mine.

Thank you!

This all seems out of left field to me. And here I thought people say that BSW in PvP was mostly trash or predictable. Now, when combined with a certain trait line (one built to add defense and sustain, mind you), it's suddenly toxic bunker behavior (in duels, tho).

Very odd. I was unaware timing the use of aegis to knock back a few projectiles so I can actually use the spec's special move was considered bunker. I would have sworn the whole purpose of the block/reflect and the teleport was to overcome the limits of charging a strong skill...but people are asking to get rid of the root too.

I will agree, the heal is rather OP too. Coupled with its elite...yeah, I actually try to avoid using the elite because it feels too much. 

An aside, let's say they did the OP's suggested change and made it a 1-time reflect with aegis, what state does that leave Shield Master in and the Defense line as a whole?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

19 minutes ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Thank you!

This all seems out of left field to me. And here I thought people say that BSW in PvP was mostly trash or predictable. Now, when combined with a certain trait line (one built to add defense and sustain, mind you), it's suddenly toxic bunker behavior.

Both of those are true. Bladesworn was designed with a mechanic that is antithetical to pvp practicality and instead of making it more practical they just allowed it to outheal mistakes. There are good solutions to problems, and bad solutions to problems. This is the latter.

The trait line is not the whole issue. The sustain for bladesworn being buffed was the most recent change, and largely what propelled it back into this healbot territory. Aegis reflecting existed before.

Quote

(in duels, tho).

Duelist is a conquest role. This doesnt make the argument less significant. 

Quote

I will agree, the heal is rather OP too. Coupled with its elite...yeah, I actually try to avoid using the elite because it feels too much. 

An aside, let's say they did the OP's suggested change and made it a 1-time reflect with aegis, what state does that leave Shield Master in and the Defense line as a whole?

I don't care which direction they take as long as they address the issue posed by the bold(namely the sustain) without dumpstering the spec. Bladesworn is the only warrior variant that has access to aegis besides 1 skill on zerker. They have a fine tightrope to walk because of how Bladesworn was designed, but they still need to walk it and find a balance point that is neither garbage nor overpowered. 

 

44 minutes ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Things are going down a bit of a rabbit hole, but I do find it a bit laughable that people are talking about a zerker build like it's a bunker build because of aegis. 

Taking zerker amulet doesn't immediately make you not a bunker, it just makes you a bunker with damage if your mechanics allow you to win most 1v1s and survive 2v1s long enough to be assisted.

Aegis may not be the problem on its own, but it is definitely a part of an existing problem.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lighter.5631]

funny how people complain about this, when there's a million ways to proc the aegis

ranger has pet, engi has aoe, necro has aoes

and unblockables.

unless you run some meme cheese p/p thief, then sure, but you have no right to complain.

it literally has less projectile hate then cata/tempest, while aura is unremovable and mace berserker has just as much projectile hate if not more.

you can't just run full projectile and full defensive utility and complain about this while your build is literally built to have 0 effort.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lighter.5631]

5 hours ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Most BSWs do, that's why they run BSW. I've actively seen this many times, SpBs that I can outpace will swap to BSW specifically to interact less.

you mean SpB that you can cheese on.

you are not outspacing them.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[vilesoldier.9826]

10 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

you mean SpB that you can cheese on.

you are not out skilling them.

 

Making this assumption, having never seen me fight or what I've had to learn to fight SpB effectively at close-range, is hilarious.

 

Though it might depend on ur definition of "cheese". If I told you that I play condi rev and your first instinct is to discredit because "cOnDi BaD", then I can't rly help you.

Edited June 26, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm going to side with Lighter on this one. It's a boon. Rip it, corrupt it, use unlockables, or heaven forbid use a non projectile attack. All those exist for a reason.

Unlike when Tactical Reload refreshed shouts there is counter play here, specifically in regards to the aegis and shield mastery interaction that has existed prior to BSW.

We can talk about the over sustain from healing and barrier spam. That is not healthy.

 

[vilesoldier.9826]

16 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

you mean SpB that you can cheese on.

you are not outspacing them.

 

Also didn't say "outspace", I said outpace, as in outskilling them. feel free to undo that edit so I can giggle in peace.

[Dahkeus.8243]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Bunker

https://imgur.com/aoCXPKf.jpeg

[Lighter.5631]

1 hour ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

Making this assumption, having never seen me fight or what I've had to learn to fight SpB effectively at close-range, is hilarious.

 

Though it might depend on ur definition of "cheese". If I told you that I play condi rev and your first instinct is to discredit because "cOnDi BaD", then I can't rly help you.

That's because SpB is an incredibly easy-to-read class, and is lower tier roamer at this point.

i really don't care how you play,

i just find it funny how you call a lower build(SpB) "you outpaced it"

but people changed to a better build, now you call it "despise of having challenge"

condi rev is literally the easiest to-play, the most challengeless, the least interactive rev build out there among basically all rev builds

note: yea i know it's "outpace", just mistyped.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

44 minutes ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

https://imgur.com/aoCXPKf.jpeg

???

Is this not what you do? ^

Edited June 27, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm going to side with Lighter on this one. It's a boon. Rip it, corrupt it, use unlockables, or heaven forbid use a non projectile attack. All those exist for a reason.

Unlike when Tactical Reload refreshed shouts there is counter play here, specifically in regards to the aegis and shield mastery interaction that has existed prior to BSW.

We can talk about the over sustain from healing and barrier spam. That is not healthy.

 

This is my sentiment, more or less.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[vilesoldier.9826]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 you've said you're excited to go feral with Anet making your job on power zerk harder, well this is my motivation right here

 

1 hour ago, Lighter.5631 said:

condi rev is literally the easiest to-play, the most challengeless, the least interactive rev build out there among basically all rev builds

 

😈

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 you've said you're excited to go feral with Anet making your job on power zerk harder, well this is my motivation right here

 

 

😈

Lighter missed the ....years? Where mallyx/corruption was a noob trap.

Idk.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

renegade, the spec that actually has trouble with shield master + bladesworn, is still a noob trap lol
especially condi.

the 111 spamming renegod of the past would fit in with current EoD powercreep tho which i find hilarious, cause it was absolutely disgusting and it's like, not that egregious compared to what EoD's brought

[vilesoldier.9826]

11 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Lighter missed the ....years? Where mallyx/corruption was a noob trap.

 

It's either "this class is easy" or "it's garbage, why are you plaiyng it", either way I'll be there to make every fight with 'em as painful as possible

 

But back on topic, I think I've gotten a decent taste of warrior sentiment on BSW. I'm not mad at you bunkers, just want to see if you can look at your spec without ammo-tinted glasses ❤️

Edited June 27, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Dahkeus.8243]

48 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

???

Is this not what you do? ^

Thank you for making my point?

P.S. Even if you’re talking sPvP, look up what role Bladesworn is listed as.  
Spoiler alert: It’s not bunker.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

The wiki has it flagged as an anomaly in the the section on SM, and honestly I would expect one reflect to expend aegis, as it gets expended off a single successful block.

Thing is, I'm okay with the anomaly... heck, I'll probably be testing it this weekend (thanks OP for bringing it to my attention by posting your concerns in the Warrior forums rofl).  I think there should be hard counters to ranged DPS/burst builds... as I think there should be counters to most builds... and as people have already pointed out, there are plenty of counters to this.

~EpWa

Edited June 27, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643