Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Bjwhite.9241]

Honestly it does devalue legendary runes a lot. I can hop on the trading post and get a set of runes with any stat for under 6 gold, the 6th stat bonus is what makes runes so useful. 1 legendary rune costs ~300+ gold, so I could buy a set of cheap runes for the stats for all my characters for less then the cost of one legendary rune.

Easy fix, depending on if it requires 1 or 2 relics for land/water give people with 6 legendary runes 1/2 the materials needed to craft a legendary relic (all the clovers needed which are harder to get and 1/2 other mats) or 1 legendary relic and those with all 7 legendary runes 1 or 2 legendary relics. Since some runes cost more than others make salvaging runes give some of the materials needed to craft legendary relics, preferably with the harder to get/more expensive runes giving an additional roll on the materials you get (like attuned/infused ascended rings do when salvaging). Harder to get = stuff from dungeons ect. Salvaging runes for materials needed would also help let people who don't have the expansion get the needed materials unless you're planning on adding additional drops in the base game.

Just thought about it, making dungeon runes give an additional roll could also make dungeons more popular again since people would farm them for the relics *shrug*

Edited June 29, 2023 by Bjwhite.9241

[Graymatter.4723]

18 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

Hi Rubi. The most important thing to me regarding legendary runes is the convenience. If I need a different stat combination for a different build, I can just change that. I spent a huge amount of time and effort getting full legendary armor, weapons, runes, and sigils since the legendary armory was created for exactly that reason. I don't want to be forced to buy something on the trading post or go on some quest to change my relic. I want that convenience of being able to completely change my build for all of my active characters. That's what I worked for. Despite having 7 runes and the time invested to get those, I don't mind having to put in some effort/gold/time to get a legendary relic but one should certainly be available to acquire at release. If I have to give up the flexibility for some arbitrary "compensation", then I will be very annoyed. I don't care if you give me 5 or 10 selectable relics. I have more characters that I play regularly with and those characters have different builds. The flexibility is what I worked hard for.

[vandrefalk.6823]

6 hours ago, misterman.1530 said:

How would you compensate for time spent grinding? I understand you can easily compensate the gold spent, but it's our time that's most precious. I think Leg Runes should become Relics: 6 runes = 6 Relics.

Why do you need 6 relics?

They're adding 1 relic slot, so you need 1 legendary relic to swap that special effect.

You had 6 legendary runes already, so for instance, with Superior Rune of the Scholar:

(1): +25 Power

(2): +35 Ferocity

(3): +50 Power

(4): +65 Ferocity

(5): +100 Power

(6): +125 Ferocity; increase strike damage by 5% while your health is above 90%.

So, after Relic slot gets added, your 6 legendary runes will now give you

(1): +25  Power

(2): +35  Ferocity

(3): +50 Power

(4): +65 Ferocity

(5): +100 Power

(6): +125 Ferocity

and provided you get a Legendary Relic, you can choose that relic slot to either give you:

 increase strike damage by 5% while your health is above 90%.

Or you could swap out the effect for that formerly of Leadership runes:

convert up to 3 conditions into boons for nearby allies after using an elite skill

Edited June 29, 2023 by Dondarrion.2748
formatting...

[Machineuzi.5604]

I hate that anet is literally forcing me to delete my char with 6 legendary runes and stealing my money. Unfair!

[vandrefalk.6823]

Just now, Machineuzi.5604 said:

I hate that anet is literally forcing me to delete my char with 6 legendary runes and stealing my money. Unfair!

Haha, that is almost how some of this objections sound 😄 

[TwinFirebird.8306]

I think it will depend how hard it will be to get the new relics. I expect some chaos at the beginning, finding everything, discovering how to get them, but after that I don't really see a big impact unless they're hard to get. If relics and crafting recipes are as easily attainable as core stat trinkets and rings I don't see a real problem. If the recipes are going to be locked behind jumping puzzle chest rng or super low drop rates I can see legendary runes being devalued a lot.

Edited June 29, 2023 by TwinFirebird.8306

[Graymatter.4723]

9 minutes ago, TwinFirebird.8306 said:

I think it will depend how hard it will be to get the new relics. I expect some chaos at the beginning, finding everything, discovering how to get them, but after that I don't really see a big impact unless they're hard to get. If relics and crafting recipes are as easily attainable as core stat trinkets and rings I don't see a real problem. If the recipes are going to be locked behind jumping puzzle chest rng or super low drop rates I can see legendary runes being devalued a lot.

Right now, with 7 legenedary runes, I can chose any stat combination on any of my active characters. Most of them have multiple builds with multiple purchased equipment templates. If I have to get a relic (or multiple relics) for each character then that is a huge devaluation of legendary runes, regardless of how hard it is to get the new relics. I have to go through a whole gearing process to get all of them back up to the level that they were, and if I chose to change builds, I have to go through that process again. The whole convenience associated with legendary runes is diminished without a legendary relic to go with them.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Graymatter.4723

[Bjwhite.9241]

3 minutes ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

Right now, with 7 legenedary runes, I can chose any stat combination on any of my active characters. Most of them have multiple builds with multiple purchased equipment templates. If I have to get a relic (or multiple relics) for each character then that is a huge devaluation of legendary runes, regardless of how hard it is to get the new relics. I have to go through a whole gearing process to get all of them back up to the level that they were if if I chose to change builds, I have to go through that process again. The whole convenience associated with legendary runes is kitten without a legendary relic to go with them.

Not even to mention if it requires an extractor or not to change relics and save the old relic. If it does that removes one of the biggest benefits of legendary runes, I love not needing to get extractors any more for the gear I use. If it requires an extractor that'd up the cost of switching builds even more.

[Tulki.1458]

It's weird how much some people here are (willingly or not) ignoring the arguments from players against relics. I guess I should break it down to be crystal clear?

Legendary runes currently give:
- Swappable stats and set bonuses

Post expansion, legendary runes will give:
- Swappable stats

You must now obtain relics to get:
- Set bonuses

This really isn't rocket science. Relics devalue runes. You can't formulate any sort of counterargument to this, and it shouldn't be shocking at all that people are unhappy or stating that this is invalidating player progress, which was supposed to be a cornerstone of GW2. If the GW2 team is okay with violating that cornerstone, fine. They can push the game in whatever direction they want. However, that was one of the aspects I find most compelling and it is what keeps me playing the game.

If the team has decided that invalidating player progress in GW2 is now an acceptable design decision, then it has lost a major differentiator and is now competing with a much broader pool of games. Again, the team is welcome to do whatever it thinks is best for the game, including invalidating player progress for retention or other reasons. I just hope they know that in doing so, they are now competing with a lot more games, and it's looking like a better idea to go play one of those instead. I play GW2 over FFXIV (for instance) because I don't want my progress to be invalidated. But now that GW2 is invalidating progress too, I may as well play FFXIV instead because they have a greater number of more interesting combat encounters.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Tulki.1458

[Khaos.6479]

Legendary Runes cost more than 300 Gold. I have crafted 7. So give me 2100 Gold and we will be good. 

Otherwise, we have the power guys : MAKE IT LOUD !

[Ashantara.8731]

32 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

Why do you need 6 relics?

They're adding 1 relic slot, so you need 1 legendary relic to swap that special effect.

You had 6 legendary runes already, so for instance, with Superior Rune of the Scholar:

(1): +25 Power

(2): +35 Ferocity

(3): +50 Power

(4): +65 Ferocity

(5): +100 Power

(6): +125 Ferocity; increase strike damage by 5% while your health is above 90%.

So, after Relic slot gets added, your 6 legendary runes will now give you

(1): +25  Power

(2): +35  Ferocity

(3): +50 Power

(4): +65 Ferocity

(5): +100 Power

(6): +125 Ferocity

and provided you get a Legendary Relic, you can choose that relic slot to either give you:

 increase strike damage by 5% while your health is above 90%.

Or you could swap out the effect for that formerly of Leadership runes:

convert up to 3 conditions into boons for nearby allies after using an elite skill

I would have assumed that this is how it is going to work, unless Relics will be handled differently than Runes: in the Build tab, not the Equipment tab.

We just don't have that information yet.

[SmokingLord.6108]

The sepulcral silence on ANET side for the community concerns regarding this matter is really disappointing, specially with the latest statements about better communication and transparency, but the fact that they can't give a quick answer means they didn't expect (or overlook entirely) the problem., which make it look worse every hour.

Edited June 29, 2023 by SmokingLord.6108

[Argaios.6403]

18 hours ago, Eclipsiste.3251 said:

The only acceptable answer is one that provides the exact advantages of current leg runes: permanent access to all relics, current and future, for all characters on the account, with the same ease of use we enjoy now.

Like many suggested here, a legendary relic would be the perfect answer and could be sent to all who have a complete set of leg runes.

Anything else would be an arbitrary punishment towards players who trusted the legendary armory system

I`m not saying this as a personal attack to anyone, but it really worries me that the community had to point this out in order for them to adress an issue that is SO obvious.

The fact that the response is not "you`ll get legendary relics for compensation" right away points to either 1. they didn`t think about it (which i find unlikely) or 2. they thought about it and have gone with it as is (meaning they planned to just introduce the system knowing it would devalue legendary runes and didn`t care).

I do agree that a legendary relic would be the perfect answer, but we`re about 50 days away from the new exp and it`s not feasible to launch it with legendary relics if they were not planend in advance (which seems to be the case), so i fear what the compensation will be.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

Haha, that is almost how some of this objections sound 😄 

I wonder, which ones specifically? Because it might be just that you didn't understand what the point of this thread is 😉

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Argaios.6403]

17 hours ago, Gracielline.8126 said:

And even in worst case scenario if no compensations are possible, there should be Legendary Relics-of-equivalent where players can craft them (perhaps at reduced cost / free if they've completed a set of 6 Leggy Runes) to regain the "same QOL" that they've lost due to the patch.

We already have a boring and unecessary hassle having to buy jadebot cores and modules for alts just to have access to masteries we already unlocked, so while it sucks to get runes stripped out, what I fear th most is legendary relics never being introduced in the game at all. 

[vandrefalk.6823]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I would have assumed that this is how it is going to work, unless Relics will be handled differently than Runes: in the Build tab, not the Equipment tab.

We just don't have that information yet.

What difference does it make where you handle the Set bonus choice on your Relic. There will be 1 Relic slot, and seeing as runes, sigils, trinkets, equipment, all goes in the equipment tab, it would sound incredibly weird for the Relic slot not to be in that same page...

[FirstRyder.2091]

At launch, Exotic was the highest stat tier of gear. Not long after, ANET added ascended gear, and people were upset - were we going to constantly get new tiers of gear and have to grind, grind, grind? And what about people who had spent the ridiculous amount of gold/effort on getting legendary weapons?

The answer was clear and correct. They didn't intend to make us grind for new gear with every new release. And while they wouldn't/couldn't promise to *never* release a new tier, they did promise that existing legendary gear would be upgraded to always be equal to the highest tier.

And that's exactly what's happening. They're downgrading the "six exotic runes" tier, adding a new "six exotic runes plus relic" tier, and the only appropriate compensation is to give everyone with 6+ legendary runes a legendary relic. I'd expect the same if they split any other gear piece. Amulets give too many stats in one bundle, so you want to split them into two parts? Fine, but anyone with a legendary amulet should get a legendary 'gem' or whatever the new slot is.

And frankly I think the "one free relic to each account" compensation for people without legendary runes is a little suspect. Ought to be a matching relic for every 6 matching runes they have slotted into armor, and a selection box if no matching relic exists. Kinda sucks for people with multiple alts/builds to only get a single relic per account when it effectively means a downgrade to most of their builds on day one, which they will have to buy back.

[Peter.3901]

4 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

We're honestly not losing anything,

Say by yourself, not us.

[Contrary.4036]

21 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

The one time I left the game in frustration for a while, it was after a balance patch when I had to re-gear my characters. When I came back, I focused on legendary armor/sigils/runes, so that I would never have to deal with that frustration again.

I'm still here because, having gotten my legendary, I don't have to grind for things and can still play end-game content. You took a step away from that with the jade bot cores. Don't take another step away from that with relics. I don't want "compensation", I want to have the functionality that I grinded for and spent gold and gems on, so that I would be able to ignore that part of the game for the rest of my play time. Please don't ruin that.

[Ashantara.8731]

34 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

What difference does it make where you handle the Set bonus choice on your Relic. There will be 1 Relic slot, and seeing as runes, sigils, trinkets, equipment, all goes in the equipment tab, it would sound incredibly weird for the Relic slot not to be in that same page...

It is possible that I interpreted the line "Starting on August 22, everyone’s build will include a relic slot" incorrectly. To me, it sounded like it wouldn't be part of the equipment tab.

[Pifil.5193]

Just now, Ashantara.8731 said:

It is possible that I interpreted the line "Starting on August 22, everyone’s build will include a relic slot" incorrectly. To me, it sounded like it wouldn't be part of the equipment tab.

Yeah, that bit muddles things but they then talk about crafting Relics, if it's not an item then what are we crafting? An unlock?

I suspect it is an item.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Yeah, that bit muddles things but they then talk about crafting Relics, if it's not an item then what are we crafting? An unlock?

I suspect it is an item.

You are right, it is probably unlikely they will add an item slot to the build tab page...

Well, in that case I am certain Legendary Relics will become a thing in the future.

[Darkshadow.2396]

21 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

How about this as an idea. If you have legendary runes, keep the special affect you get for the 6th position, but allow a relic to over right that value. That way those w/ lego runes keep the effect they worked so hard to get, but allow the flexibility of a relic to change it for all users.

[Nono.7963]

That's terrible.
If they do that, it will be the ultimate proof they really don't care about long term players and have no respect for the ones who invested a lot of time and money in this game.
Not going to buy gems anymore if they don't cancel this idea or give us the option to trade a legendary relic for a legendary rune.
This cash will be invested somewhere else i guess 😅

[TheNurgle.4825]

3 hours ago, suialthor.7164 said:

Something like the Hall of Monuments that gave rewards based on the previous game?

No something like free legendary relic or something which increase my DPS by 5%. This whole discussion about compensation is one of reason that when devs of any MMO want to improve or fix anything they can't. I understand that GW2 is and wants to be different from other MMOs and legendary items with "new" legendary armory is great. No more grind for new items every expansion as in other MMOs, but this discussion about compensation is really silly.