DeathPanel.8362 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: If relics were not meant to involve a serious cost and/or effort, they would have been a free feature, not a gear you have to obtain. That's nonsense. Runes are gear you have to obtain and a majority of them cost less than 1 gold. So your logic doesn't work. There's no info on how much relics will cost but based on how much runes cost currently I don't expect them to cost significantly more. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said: That's nonsense. Runes are gear you have to obtain and a majority of them cost less than 1 gold. A majority of them is also never used. And those that are popular, are worth significantly more. That's not a coincidence. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said: A majority of them is also never used. And those that are popular, are worth significantly more. That's not a coincidence. The majority of the most popular runes are also <1gp. Tiny minority of those have non-gold costs, true, but "significantly more"? Does not hold. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPanel.8362 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: I have legendary setup, so no, i do not have to pay for that. Unless it's SPvP, in which case if rune/sigil i had to pay for got removed, i end up getting my gold back. That's one of the main purposes why i have invested so much in legendaries - to not have to jump through hoops every time they go and change something. They've just invalidated that, though. Again, you still won't need to pay for runes. You're just expecting all the runes to still have the same effects as before. That's unreasonable. MMOs have balance patches all the time with skills and equipment rebalances where effects and stats are removed or shifted. It's the nature of MMOs. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blp.3489 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said: The way they have described it, it will function like this. "Superior Rune of the Trooper" as example here. Current situation: (1): +25 Vitality (2): +35 Toughness (3): +50 Vitality (4): +65 Toughness (5): +100 Vitality (6): +125 Toughness; remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill. After Relics are introduced: Superior Rune of the Trooper gives for 1-6 runes following stat bonuses: (1): +25 Vitality (2): +35 Toughness (3): +50 Vitality (4): +65 Toughness (5): +100 Vitality (6): +125 Toughness Some relic will give the bonus effect "remove a condition from each affected ally after using a shout skill" So runes will have bonus effects removed from them. And instead you will have a category of Relics which support all these bonus effects you can then choose from. So you are no longer bound to have this bonus effect with your 6 Superior Runes of the Trooper, you can instead for example take the bonus effect that previously existed on the Superior Rune of the Privateer and "Shout "Yarr!" while in combat, summoning a parrot and granting Might might to allies. (Cooldown: 60 Seconds)" But the observant ones will then also notice that lots of runes will probably disappear, and be reimbursed with their replacements probably. E.g., there will be no difference between Superior Rune of Fireworks and Superior Rune of the Surging since both will offer the same stat bonuses for runes 1 - 6, previously distinguished only by their set bonus effect. Thank you for the effort that you put into typing all that out, it's a good clear explanation. But you misunderstood my questions. I was referring to actual instances of the existing runes. If I have a rune of the scholar in my inventory is it going to just be removed? Will it be replaced with a new rune in my inventory with the bonus effect removed? Will I also get a relic added to my inventory with the bonus effect? Or will existing runes in inventory or on characters still exist but with the bonus effect not operating? Etc. It is a little hard to imagine that come August 22nd all existing runes that people have in inventory or equipped will just be deleted. And if so it is hard to believe players will be "celebrating" the new system due to having received a relic choice box. The obvious solution is to leave existing runes as they are and allow relics to overwrite/replace the bonus effect. Plus create new cheaper ruins that don't have bonus effects. Everyone would maintain the capability they have now plus have the option to make use of relics and the new diminished runes. Giving legendary relics to players with legendary runes would satisfy them, but if everyone else loses all the runes they currently own nobody is going to be happy. Which is why I doubt Anet will do that. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blp.3489 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said: Literally every single balance change in which something is nerfed is "taking away" something. At least this change made it so it can be offset. Would you be happier if they simply just removed all 6-slot effects and did nothing else? If they announced that they were reducing the damage on some skill, which is a typical nerf, but I could get the damage back by paying some amount of whatever currency I would not be happy. Very few people would be. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, blp.3489 said: I was referring to actual instances of the existing runes. If I have a rune of the scholar in my inventory is it going to just be removed? Will it be replaced with a new rune in my inventory with the bonus effect removed? Will I also get a relic added to my inventory with the bonus effect? Or will existing runes in inventory or on characters still exist but with the bonus effect not operating? Most likely? All runes in all inventories/characters with the same bonuses for 1-5 (some runes have extra stats for #6, some do not) will most likely collapse into a smaller set of runes that have the same stat spread. So, Scholar, Deadeye, Ogre all get distilled into one single rune with one of those names, or a new name entirely. 9 minutes ago, blp.3489 said: It is a little hard to imagine that come August 22nd all existing runes that people have in inventory or equipped will just be deleted. Why in the everloving heck would you imagine that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, blp.3489 said: If they announced that they were reducing the damage on some skill, which is a typical nerf, but I could get the damage back by paying some amount of whatever currency I would not be happy. Very few people would be. My dude, they did this exact thing every time they released any of the expansions. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blp.3489 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: Why in the everloving heck would you imagine that? My point in the original post was that we don't know, I listed several possible scenarios and specifically stated that I couldn't imagine that Anet would go so far as to just delete all the old runes that people owned. So your guess is that on August 22nd all the runes we have in inventory or equipped will be replaced with no-bonus versions and everyone in the game will have to all at once buy all the relics they need for all the builds of all the alts they have? And that they will be celebrating that they received a relic choice box? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco.9302 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 2:27 AM, Parasite.5389 said: I mean, not having to spend 18 gold per toon to get say, a set of Scholar runes is a pretty nice change. Consider that Scholar, Ogre, and Deadeye all have the same stat allocation, the only diffeerence between them is that final 6th tier bonus the current price difference between those 3 sets of runes, 18G for Scholar,, 9G for Ogre, and 6G for Deadeye without that bonus, theres no reason for runes to cost that much. Tbf we don't know the cost of the relics. The rune set may end up costing less with the +5% relic priced at 20g or more.... No way to know that now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandrefalk.6823 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nono.7963 said: yeah, ANET does not understand that a lot of people are playing GW2 and not WoW or FF14 for this reason. That's pretty sad, everytime they do something great, they also ruin it with a bad and unnecessary move no one asked for. But, you have to agree, it's a good move. To make runes only affect stat increases and now let you choose a bonus effect of your choosing irrespective of stats on your relic slot. How many are forced to go some runes purely for the stats, and get an irrelevant bonus effect, and vice versa. Now you can pick and choose, and it simplifies things, both for Anet as devs who must maintain and balance these mechanics, as well as for players to get more freedom of choice and open up new builds and gameplay. Edited June 30, 2023 by Dondarrion.2748 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said: My dude, they did this exact thing every time they released any of the expansions. You are saying that as if that was a good thing. Hint: it wasn't. When they happened to nerf one espec, or core traitline, for the sole reason of validating existence of the new espec, it always made me extremely unhappy. And i didn't even have to pay to unlock that new espec. It was bad desing then, and it's still bad design now. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said: And i didn't even have to pay to unlock that new espec. You got expacs for FREE!? kitten! Nice! 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 15 hours ago, luigiormario.7305 said: but will be a one off rather than regular changes disrupting certain playstyles Source? Legendary runes were supposed to be a one off. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvyn.4750 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 9 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said: Weapon functionality absolutely was nerfed before every expac, "to make room for the new weapon". Nerfs are related to balancing issues...they don't remove stats from weapons and turn around to have you grind or buy the removed stats back from them, they are small irreversible adjustments. This is more akin to the neighborhood bully taking half of your sandwich and not giving it back unless you pay him for it. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said: We don't know if it's one per character or one per account... I'm guessing one per character. Seems quite clear that it's per account. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-in-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/ Quote To celebrate the new system, we’ll distribute a relic selection box to all players at launch. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Just now, Sylvyn.4750 said: This is more akin to the neighborhood bully taking half of your sandwich and not giving it back unless you pay him for it. It is not. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvyn.4750 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said: Edited June 30, 2023 by Sylvyn.4750 Double post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvyn.4750 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: It is not. So you're saying they will give us a relic for each bonus removed from each rune set we own? That's great! 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, Sylvyn.4750 said: So you're saying they will give us a relic for each bonus removed from each rune set we own? That's great! So you're saying you're mailing me gold right now? That's great! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 43 minutes ago, Sylvyn.4750 said: Nerfs are related to balancing issues...they don't remove stats from weapons and turn around to have you grind or buy the removed stats back from them, they are small irreversible adjustments. This is more akin to the neighborhood bully taking half of your sandwich and not giving it back unless you pay him for it. Even worse, the bully sold you the sandwich in the first place. 4 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPanel.8362 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 hours ago, blp.3489 said: If they announced that they were reducing the damage on some skill, which is a typical nerf, but I could get the damage back by paying some amount of whatever currency I would not be happy. Very few people would be. No one is happy about Nerfs, but that's not the specific question I posed. Your argument is contingent upon them creating an offset that requires an amount of currency which is your main complaint. What happens when they don't? What if they simply removed the effect from the rune without creating any offset? Would you be happier compared to if they did? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPanel.8362 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said: Nerfs are related to balancing issues...they don't remove stats from weapons and turn around to have you grind or buy the removed stats back from them, they are small irreversible adjustments. This is more akin to the neighborhood bully taking half of your sandwich and not giving it back unless you pay him for it. They absolutely removed and changed stats on runes in the past. They're simply providing a way to offset that in a different gear slot whereas they didn't in the past. You're literally better off. A point of clarification, the game isn't yours. It's ANET's. Your analogy is totally incorrect. It's like an amusement park. Nothing in it belongs to you. You merely paid the ticket for admission. The owners get to modify, close down, or restrict how people take the rides in this amusement park at their discretion. They aren't taking anything away from you. You never had it to begin with. Your only choice is to pay for the ticket to enter to play or not. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPanel.8362 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 hours ago, difens.1326 said: The only thing that makes my trapper DH WvW build working is 6th bonus on the Trapper rune. So upon launch I'll lose that, the build will be rendered unplayable and I'll have to do God knows how much grind/pay how much gold to TP barons to restore it back? And I'm not talking restore performance but to make it work at all... And they will graciously give one relic box for the entire account? Oh, that's sweet ANET. I knew I could count on you. You are sent one free selectable relic box at release so just choose that and problem solved. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPanel.8362 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said: But, you have to agree, it's a good move. To make runes only affect stat increases and now let you choose a bonus effect of your choosing irrespective of stats on your relic slot. How many are forced to go some runes purely for the stats, and get an irrelevant bonus effect, and vice versa. Now you can pick and choose, and it simplifies things, both for Anet as devs who must maintain and balance these mechanics, as well as for players to get more freedom of choice and open up new builds and gameplay. With all these talks of runes, I have to point out that exotic jewels are a thing. It's possible that they may be a sleeper hit in the expansion because they provide more raw stats compared to many rune setups. 6 exotic ruby jewels may be a preferable alternative to 6 runes of the scholar for certain builds if you have the damage increase effect in the relic. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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