Ele destroys PvP please for the shake of Love turn down this class

[Myror.7521]

The Problem is just ele not only cata. Right now this class is able to free eat every single hard hit Skill. Its just dump af. Please A-Net do something! Just Nerf this kitten! Its just as dump as Scourge when it came out Back then you not even need to dodge things on this class.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

12 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

The Problem is just ele not only cata.

^

[Morwath.9817]

I feel like feedback on those forums is usualy poor quality.

Don't ask them to "do something", try to identify problems. For example:

"Too spammy, too much of everything, every single skill hits to hard" - thats not good feedback, while "Auras are too strong, reduce their duration" we seen in different thread other day was much better feedback having any actual value as it was pointing at something.

[Dari.3654]

i gotta disagree with OP here. ele itself issnt the problem. if were honnest not even cata itself is that much of a problem atm.

yes its very effective if used by the right hands. but thats the way it should be.

Right now, the biggest problem is the latest Signetbuffs, that were probably ment to compensate for the stoneheartnerfs some time ago.

to bad anet took the worst possible thing they can do, and smacked some free Auras on it. idk how they even began to think that this is a good idea.

this bloats signet utilities to a silly level ESPECIALY on cata.

lets take a look at Airsignet:

• passive 25% movementspeed
• its a shortCD stunbreak
• blind

now with Written in stone and cata it also grants:

• passive signet effects remain after activation
• stability
• protection
• shockingaura
• stackable damagebuff.
• if theyre using Firetraids: condicleanse.

and thats just the Airsignet. Theyre usualy seen with 4 Signets.

• Restoration, wich now turns into an active heal + frostaura (even more damage reduction), with a realy strong passive heal.
• Earth, wich is a very strong ranged imob + reflectaura.
• water, wich heals allies and chills foes + another frostaura

not to forget all the effects mentioned from "written in stone" (beside the signet-specific aura)

this effectivly turns all the Signets into multipurpose "one button does everything" kinda utilitys.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Dari.3654

[Jeyy.5028]

i got no problems with ele playing my core necro. L2P issue really

[Wyrdern.4092]

I feel like shoehorning auras into another ele spec was a mistake with how many things are tied into auras, and adding more auras via signets just causes even more problems. It just becomes a balance nightmare because there are so many interactions between traits and skills that it becomes hard individually adjust things ...

[Myror.7521]

@Morwath.9817 Well I can't tell what exactly is just wrong (cause im in no meant ele Main). All I could say is that it just get too mutch of everything. I mean i could hold the class under pressure but thing is he could free food every single hard burst skill I (a warr) get. I wouldn't meant to tell this op at all cause there are some classes that could do this in a small window. The Problem is just more or less how small the window is where i can for real do dmg on it. As it Stands now this class (a btw light armory class) is infakt more tanky than litterly every high armory classes ... 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Myror.7521

[JosephKatz.9375]

Catalyst is busted, but weaver is also completely broken and HAS BEEN. The spec is able to completely ignore damage if it wants to while chain CCing and spamming burns bleeds and having 50% barrier at a moments notice. The excuse of “Well yeah, but they’re slow!” Doesn’t hold any water, they can move fast enough to keep up with the majority of them and are just unkillabke but you cannot face tank their DPS. The reason this game is dead is classes like this get to exist in perpetuity and the squeakiest wheels always get their way… Gwim hack?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

37 minutes ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

Catalyst is busted, but weaver is also completely broken and HAS BEEN. The spec is able to completely ignore damage if it wants to while chain CCing and spamming burns bleeds and having 50% barrier at a moments notice. The excuse of “Well yeah, but they’re slow!” Doesn’t hold any water, they can move fast enough to keep up with the majority of them and are just unkillabke but you cannot face tank their DPS. The reason this game is dead is classes like this get to exist in perpetuity and the squeakiest wheels always get their way… Gwim hack?

maybe try fighting one on something other than p/p blind spam thief

[Stand The Wall.6987]

51 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

maybe try fighting one on something other than p/p blind spam thief

don't hate thats a sleeper build

[philvaneyck.1932]

Problem is ele got to much of everything. reflect, blocks, evades, to much condi damage no matter what build you are playing. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

don't hate thats a sleeper build

If by sleeper you mean it bores people to sleep, then yeah.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

"Too spammy, too much of everything, every single skill hits to hard" - thats not good feedback

Normally I agree, but in this particular situation, it's actually true.

Every single mentionable thing on Elementalist right now, is completely bloated, and I'm not just talking about Catalysts, even Core Eles are out tearing it up today. I also loaded into Ele to test some things myself this morning, here is a slightly better rundown of what's going on:

1. Everything it does hits too hard. This seems to be largely stemming from recent buffs which has allowed Ele to always be able to take Fire line so that they can free spam 25 might stacks for the mighty burst, like consistently all the time, with no down time.
2. This ^ is because it has way way way way too much defense all around the class in every nook & cranny possible, which allows it to take such DPS options.
3. In general, it is spitting out way way way way way too many auras. It's at a point where it's just ridiculous and in no acceptable by any developers standards of balance. It was already spitting too many auras before this patch, and the patch before that, and up to like 12 months ago, people were saying the aura play was too much. But now? It has all auras going at all times, all the time. The defensive values behind this for not only itself but everyone around it, is insanely bloated compared to what other classes have available and offer to their party.
4. Its kite potential is far too high for its raw DPS and defensive values. Not only kite value but also its chase potential. It was one thing when we had Weavers on side nodes who were dominant in 1v1s that you could actually disengage from, but modern Eles now, you can't disengage things unless you have mass stealth.
5. It heals way too much for how nearly invulnerable it is, and now with the perma Fire trait line and massive amount of free auras off of signet trait, it also has massive cleanse potential as well. It now has no weaknesses other than having an entire party dog pile on top of it and ride it for the next 30s to 60s until you force its CDs so you can kill it. No class/build should be that tanky, not even full bunkers.
6. The CDs on Ele in general have been lowered way too much in general.

So we are in situation here where slight little tini-tiny tweaks are not going to fix this problem as Ele has been the strongest alpha class for at least 12 months now in a very problematic way, even before they tossed all of these super buffs. If they were serious about balancing this class again, honestly there is an awful lot that needs to be straight ripped off of Ele as a class, and I'm talking Core Ele even, not just Catalyst & Tempest.

It's insanely over-powered man. So as you can see, without elaborating too much, his statement was correct in saying "Everything it does is incredibly massively bloated".

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[asket.5674]

1 hour ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

Catalyst is busted, but weaver is also completely broken and HAS BEEN. The spec is able to completely ignore damage if it wants to while chain CCing and spamming burns bleeds and having 50% barrier at a moments notice. The excuse of “Well yeah, but they’re slow!” Doesn’t hold any water, they can move fast enough to keep up with the majority of them and are just unkillabke but you cannot face tank their DPS. The reason this game is dead is classes like this get to exist in perpetuity and the squeakiest wheels always get their way… Gwim hack?

If you are dying to a weaver it’s solely your fault. Cata on the other hand is absolutely bloated and broken and i hope it gets nerfed hard. Its just braindead.

[Morwath.9817]

27 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Normally I agree, but in this particular situation, it's actually true.

Every single mentionable thing on Elementalist right now, is completely bloated, and I'm not just talking about Catalysts, even Core Eles are out tearing it up today. I also loaded into Ele to test some things myself this morning, here is a slightly better rundown of what's going on:

1. Everything it does hits too hard. This seems to be largely stemming from recent buffs which has allowed Ele to always be able to take Fire line so that they can free spam 25 might stacks for the mighty burst, like consistently all the time, with no down time.
2. This ^ is because it has way way way way too much defense all around the class in every nook & cranny possible, which allows it to take such DPS options.
3. In general, it is spitting out way way way way way too many auras. It's at a point where it's just ridiculous and in no acceptable by any developers standards of balance. It was already spitting too many auras before this patch, and the patch before that, and up to like 12 months ago, people were saying the aura play was too much. But now? It has all auras going at all times, all the time. The defensive values behind this for not only itself but everyone around it, is insanely bloated compared to what other classes have available and offer to their party.
4. Its kite potential is far too high for its raw DPS and defensive values. Not only kite value but also its chase potential. It was one thing when we had Weavers on side nodes who were dominant in 1v1s that you could actually disengage from, but modern Eles now, you can't disengage things unless you have mass stealth.
5. It heals way too much heal for how nearly invulnerable it is, and now with the perma Fire trait line and massive amount of free auras off of signet trait, it also has massive cleanse potential as well. It now has no weaknesses other than having an entire party dog pile on top of it and ride it for the next 30s to 60s until you force its CDs so you can kill it. No class/build should be that tanky, not even full bunkers.
6. The CDs on Ele in general have been lowered way too much in general.

So we are in situation here where slight little tini-tiny tweaks are not going to fix this problem as Ele has been the strongest alpha class for at least 12 months now in a very problematic way, even before they tossed all of these super buffs. If they were serious about balancing this class again, honestly there is an awful lot that needs to be straight ripped off of Ele as a class, and I'm talking Core Ele even, not just Catalyst & Tempest.

It's insanely over-powered man. So as you can see, without elaborating too much, his statement was correct in saying "Everything it does is incredibly massively bloated".

 

I haven't said I disagree with OP, but that I believe feedback has to be precise. However if we look at your points, I think we should have more boon corruption across various classes to keep boon vomit in check. I'd put boon corruption on:

• Revenant (Malyx - Banish Enchantment bring back corruption trait);
• Mesmer - don't know where, but it's supposed to be denial class, so should be good at turning boons into pain; 
• Ranger - I'd rework one pet around removing and corrupting boons and give such abilities to Soulbeast while merged.

That would be huge nerf to Ele without actualy nerfing Ele. It would also give some options to less played builds.

Edit:

If they want to keep boon corruption kinda Necro exclusive then i'd buff boon strip heavily for Mesmer and Malyx and still add boonstrip pet to Ranger with boonstrip abilities to Soulbeast.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Morwath.9817

[Zyreva.1078]

34 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

That would be huge nerf to Ele without actualy nerfing Ele. It would also give some options to less played builds.

Ele isn't the only class that utilizes boons. And adding more boon strip changes nothing about how broken cata is in comparison to everything else, just like existing boon strip does little to nothing.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Morwath.9817]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

Ele isn't the only class that utilizes boons. And adding more boon strip changes nothing about how broken cata is in comparison to everything else.

It does. Reducing boon impact makes the most boon spammy spec much weaker. It also would be huge buff to builds that ain't heavy boon dependant/spammy as boon corrupt oriented builds would be weaker against them creating more classic rock/paper/scissors (raw/boon/corrupt) system. To have diverse meta game we need more r/p/s.

[Zyreva.1078]

Then why aren't players just using existing boon rip to counter catas?

[Morwath.9817]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

Then why aren't players just using existing boon rip to counter catas?

Maybe having boon corruption only on Necros isn't good enough?

[Zyreva.1078]

Well, just stack multiple necros then, no?

The thing is, a weak builds doesn't suddenly become strong just by adding strips/corrupts. Cata right now is op in so many aspects that a build that counters it needs to be op in multiple areas too, just having corrupts/strips isn't enough. But if you keep buffing everything through the roof, the already pretty insane power creep will become completely out of control. It is much better to nerf op stuff instead of going the "arms race" route.

That's not to say more boon hate wouldn't be a good idea, but it's not the solution to current cata in spvp.

[Morwath.9817]

15 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Well, just stack multiple necros then, no?

 

Thats very interesting question. With good balancing that should be good solution. Class that has built in counter for basic mechanic of other class should shut it down easily. Question why its not the case? Overnerfed?

Last crusade I remember on those forums was "nerf Necromancer" and "Elementalist unplayable" and here we're today.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Morwath.9817

[Bast.7253]

It would help to actually do something about all these macro scepter eles. 

[Aaron.1294]

@Morwath.9817necro got nerfed so no boon corrupts anymore

also "ele unplayable" crusade was before the scepter rework and cata buffs, 90% of the entire community I think would agree that after these buffs ele was waay too overpowered

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Morwath.9817 said:

That would be huge nerf to Ele without actualy nerfing Ele

Eeeeeeeh nah man.

For boon removes to work you need to be able to hit something with the boon removes. Ele in general has way too much invulnerable or invuln-like status. It just needs hard still large nerfs at this point to bring it back to reality.

And that's only to mention the defensive aspects that are wrong with it. The entire class is insanely overbuffed.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Every single mentionable thing on Elementalist right now, is completely bloated, and I'm not just talking about Catalysts, even Core Eles are out tearing it up today.

Having played a lot of core ele over the last couple years id say up until very recently there were only a few things really OP about them.

I havent tried dagger OH on core yet but churning earth bleed stacks should probably get cut in half. Radius increase on fire grab and updraft definitely make them strong, but I wouldnt call either overpowered. Nearly everything else has just been cooldown reductions, some of which were probably unnecessary but nothing was too crazy.

The new earth signet trait is definitely a problem and should get nerfed. 4s frost aura is far stronger than people might think, shocking aura on a stun break is huge. Combine it with cata and its ridiculous to think that it was put in the game like this.

Scepter is a much stronger weapon now, particularly because of dragons tooth tracking making it actually capable of setting up burst combos and doing damage. Flamestrike should probably get its attack speed buff reverted too. Aside from that i dont really think scepter is OP on core ele. The only time it saw use before the buffs was on FA weaver because dual skills could reliably do damage. Maybe you could argue to increase the cooldown on blinding flash and dust devil but thats about it.

The only other things that I would consider really OP about core are: Smothering auras especially after the cooldown reduction on aura transmutes. Powerful aura with its aura sharing, though this is currently only really a problem with tempest because water is a bad traitline outside of support builds. Earth shield, though the cooldown increases from a few months ago have made it a bit more balanced.