Flurry Still Sucks

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

@Cal Cohen.2358

I appreciate the recent changes to Flurry; it's definitely better than it was before...unfortunately, that's a low bar to clear, and the skill in its current form is little more than a glorified AA chain.  The DPS (2.0 coeff over 2s) is paltry, especially for only a few stacks of bleeding (and only bleeding).  It's solidly a C-tier skill at this point (which is an upgrade from D-tier, to be sure, but still).

Some ideas for improvement:

1.) Decrease cast time to 1.5s.  Pure and simple increase to DPS.  Also, as long as the immob remains 2s+, this creates a window after the channel where the target is still immob'd where you can land another attack.

2.) Increase range to 180.   Makes it easier to snare targets.

3.) Make immob application apply once per target per cast.  This prevents a miss, blind, aegis, etc on the initial hit from negating the immob.

4.) Flurry refreshes Final Thrust when you immobilize a foe.  Creates an internal synergy with sword's own skills  (such as Backbreaker and Fierce Blow on Warrior Hammer or Hilt Bash and Maul on Ranger GS) and improves DPS potential.

On that final point, please also consider increasing range of Final Thrust to 180 or 240 and increasing bleed stacks applied to 4 above 50% health/8 below 50% health.  Reducing the CD to 8s would also be reasonable.  The idea is is to make MH sword a significant offensive threat by repeatedly comboing Flurry and Final Thrust to achieve modest power dmg and significant bleeding output.

Thanks for considering it!

Edited July 1, 2023 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Lonecap.4105]

These are good suggestions +1

[Jzaku.9765]

How have you not been warned for ping harassing the devs yet?

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

How have you not been warned for ping harassing the devs yet?

*innocent puppy dog eyes*

'cause I'm such a nice guy?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

It takes a lot of pinging. Also helps if you don't make aquafina and vos jokes when you do it.

Flurry applying a 0.25s immobilize per strike and compressing it to 1.5s with the 9 strikes is what I would do.

[eXruina.4956]

yep, but at the very least you can trigger burst traits with it without being a sitting duck, but as far as power level goes its still garbage, much like longbow, but its at least usable now. 🤣

Edited July 1, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

How have you not been warned for ping harassing the devs yet?

Cause he never pings them for stupid posts, is always respectful, gives thought out advice, and offers actually actionable feedback. Most people pinging the devs are just telling them that the changes are stupid and need to be reverted, which really doesn’t do anything constructive. 
 

At least that’s my guess. 
 

As for these changes, I think they are all good ideas. I still think swords kit won’t function completely without a final thrust rework (like, say, into a line aoe dash with 450 range that hits 5 targets pls 🥺). Resetting final thrust could make swords kit super dynamic, and reducing cast time is pretty much necessary for the skill to be really viable imo. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

8 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Cause he never pings them for stupid posts, is always respectful, gives thought out advice, and offers actually actionable feedback. Most people pinging the devs are just telling them that the changes are stupid and need to be reverted, which really doesn’t do anything constructive. 
 

At least that’s my guess. 
 

As for these changes, I think they are all good ideas. I still think swords kit won’t function completely without a final thrust rework (like, say, into a line aoe dash with 450 range that hits 5 targets pls 🥺). Resetting final thrust could make swords kit super dynamic, and reducing cast time is pretty much necessary for the skill to be really viable imo. 

Thanks for the kind words!

And I will never say no to a dash on FT; as we've discussed before, that would be my dream. Unleash the gatotsu!

https://youtu.be/Z4qLsF9NeXE

[oscuro.9720]

24 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Thanks for the kind words!

And I will never say no to a dash on FT; as we've discussed before, that would be my dream. Unleash the gatotsu!

https://youtu.be/Z4qLsF9NeXE

Yes, I just fed that constantly bringing it up will slowly make it a subconscious inevitability in the minds of the devs and we shall will it into existence \o/ 

It really would make the whole kit so much more enjoyable. Imagine if flurry reset cast of a dashing final thrust. Dash final thrust-> flurry -> final thrust combos would feel like you are absolutely FLYING. 

[Zekent.3652]

Rifle 4 also sucks, the shot should've been activated at the same time as the dodge.

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Rifle 4 also sucks, the shot should've been activated at the same time as the dodge.

that is kinda what i don't get about such changes, a very good example of this is the gunsaber rework, they're already working on it, instead of making it the best it could be they put in half measures and put out questionable results instead of decicively good changes.

 

its just strange. balance for warrior feels like a tug of war of intentions and implementations.

 

 

[Ferus.3165]

in addition to that please increase the range of final thrust to 180 aswell and maybe add some particle effect to the thrusting animation for better visibility (because of the range extension).

[Shinja.3451]

The changes to the sword have been the best in years, since adding the final hit of the 1 chain to add bleed, however the warrior still needs the following on the sword:
A buff to bleed damage somewhere.
Remove all the nerfs that were added to it, it is not understood why they nerfed it in the first place, for no reason and without seeing it in action before.

On the playable side, it was understandable that Final Thrust was the last hit in the chain and that skill 3 had a different functionality than it does now, which is just dealing damage, which doesn't make much sense, since being a weapon of conditions or even hybrid, more so if it was full hit damage, skill 2 would still be incredibly clunky, the chain wouldn't generate enough adrenaline to use the burst skill, and skill 3 would keep delaying until it drops the target to 50% health, this is more of a design flaw than anything else and a complete lack of traits to power up sword use and bleeds.

Another thing, if anet reads this, they can improve the animation of the sword in the charrs, they twist too much and it even seems that they hit with their heads, maybe that's why they do so little damage XD

The description of Flurry seems to be bugged as always, even more so with a certain trait.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I'm fairly certain the changes in the OP would make MH sword an A-tier weapon (possibly even for power builds) in competitive modes.

However, I doubt it would be enough for any non-berserker condi builds to emerge in PvE. I think success there would require more traitline support (Arms rework when??) and also some condi oriented utility skills. For instance, Ranger has multiple traits on multiple traitlines that build is condi diversity; it also has utilities like Sharpening Stones and its numerous trap skills. Maybe some of warrior's less used utilities could be reworked to provide a similar flavor (a shout and/or a stance would seem ideal, for instance).

[Guy.9207]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm fairly certain the changes in the OP would make MH sword an A-tier weapon (possibly even for power builds) in competitive modes.

However, I doubt it would be enough for any non-berserker condi builds to emerge in PvE. I think success there would require more traitline support (Arms rework when??) and also some condi oriented utility skills. For instance, Ranger has multiple traits on multiple traitlines that build is condi diversity; it also has utilities like Sharpening Stones and its numerous trap skills. Maybe some of warrior's less used utilities could be reworked to provide a similar flavor (a shout and/or a stance would seem ideal, for instance).

Warriors could use more conditions in general. Bleeding and Burning seems to be two main ones, but the latter is only abundant via Berserker. Bring in Torment and Confusion since those two thematically makes sense for it.