A fair and reasonable mechanism for compensating the change in legendary rune functionality

[tmakinen.1048]

Since legendary runes (LR) are a very expensive QoL feature, it is necessary to consider possible changes in QoL when dividing the respective attribute system into runes and relics. Any prospective compensation for loss of QoL should be both fair for all players regardless of the number of unlocked LRs, and reasonable (i.e., sufficiently straightforward and transparent) to implement. Please find below one suggestion that meets these requirements and should be tolerable to all parties.

1. because of reduced functionality, lower the material cost of a LR in the new (SotO) system by x%
2. to compensate for (1), at the release of SotO convert every existing (old) LR into a (SotO) LR + a satchel of materials
3. if six (SotO) LR + a relic are approximately equal to six (old) LR in functionality, let six satchels of materials be enough to craft a legendary relic; if a relic provides superior functionality, adjust the material cost of a legendary relic accordingly (in the latter case, if you want to be considerate make two versions of the relic, one with old functionality and upgradeable to full version so that players with 6+ LRs retain the existing QoL through the transition)

This way, any number of previously unlocked LRs up to six retain their functionality through the SotO transition.

[Cuks.8241]

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

[Balsa.3951]

43 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

that not what anet said when they promised legendary and if they do like i say what comes next? ur skyscale cant fly till u buy a trinket for it?

[idpersona.3810]

We're waiting a response from them at the moment. It seems they didn't quite plan for this.

20 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

Devaluing someone's investment (anyone, but especially long time players) to where they have less functionality after the change than they do currently and asking for them to pay to get it back is a bad practice.

Not out of the realm of possibility. But it would set a terrible precedent.

[tmakinen.1048]

2 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Devaluing someone's investment (anyone, but especially long time players) to where they have less functionality after the change than they do currently and asking for them to pay to get it back is a bad practice.

Yes, and furthermore, in this respect legendaries are a special case because they are supposed to always remain best-in-slot (BiS) gear. In this case the slot in question gets split but since the functionality is retained (only refactored) the respective legendary functionality should likewise be retained.

[Geralt.7519]

On 7/2/2023 at 10:41 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

On normal stuff I agree with you but this is legendaries we're talking about.

Legendaries are not regular stuff, they're QoL ONLY, and the premise of doing them is that the QoL they provide remains valid for as long as the game lives, this "pact" is being broken right now, that's a horrible precedent.

We have yet to see what Anet intends to do about it, BUT, if they really want to stay true to their words, in my opinion, they should make a legendary relic and give it to all those who currently have a set of legendary runes, that's the only way to both guarantee the same level of QoL runes have now and keep players trust in legendaries being worth the effort of making them.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Geralt.7519
typo

[Lord Rhett.9360]

I literally finished all my runes the day before the announcement about the change. Adding a new feature that has an effect on builds without also adding a Legendary variant is silly, so there will obviously be a Legendary Relic, and my fear is that it will cost as much as a rune or more.

Everyone who has a full set should get a free Relic, end of story. It shouldn't be an extra craft ever. It should be something that's granted to you upon the creation of your sixth Rune (because seven is silly). This should be a permanent change.

Though tbh the legendary feature I'm more worried about is armor.

[DeathPanel.8362]

Just give everyone that has 6+ legendary runes a legendary Relic at release.

Problem solved.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

And here I am, waiting for a gold sink. 

The money I make from my daily meta train has been piling up for some years now. 

[Linken.6345]

5 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

And here I am, waiting for a gold sink. 

The money I make from my daily meta train has been piling up for some years now. 

Make and insta sell legendaries.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Just now, Linken.6345 said:

Make and insta sell legendaries.

Dude. I don't need MORE gold. I need something meaningful that I can spend money on. 

[Cuks.8241]

6 hours ago, Geralt.7519 said:

On normal stuff I agree with you but this is legendaries we're talking about.

Legendaries are not regular stuff, they're QoL ONLY, and the premise of doing them is that the QoL they provide remains valid for as long as the game lives, this "pact" is being broken right now, that's a horrible precedent.

I don't see how legendary runes make it any different to normal exotic runes.

Legendary runes will be still useful. Yeah they took a bit of power out of them and put it in a new item but they will remain great QOL. At some point players will still want to craft them, maybe the priority will be a bit lower.

On the other hand investing in exotic runes is not so trivial gold either (depending on runes) and some required specific currencies which could be annoying for some players (dungeons for example). And its entirely possible that some of those exotic runes will go from BIS to almost useless because the strong part was the 6 set bonus. 

I see the argument but I am not in favour of compensations even though I will need to equip ~ 30 builds. It's not that I am against for this specific case, it's just my general notion that compensating every time players cry about it is just digging a hole for yourself. But that's Anet in general in my opinion. Sometimes I think they should just grow some and pull some strong potentially unpopular moves that would pay off in the long run. In the end it's their business decision.

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, Geralt.7519 said:

Legendaries are not regular stuff, they're QoL ONLY, and the premise of doing them is that the QoL they provide remains valid for as long as the game lives, this "pact" is being broken right now, that's a horrible precedent.

No pact is broken, yet. Anet responded that they will think about it. The devs who implemented this probably made a mistake and forgot the existence of legendary runes.

 

[Polar.8634]

4 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Legendary runes will be still useful. Yeah they took a bit of power out of them and put it in a new item but they will remain great QOL. At some point players will still want to craft them, maybe the priority will be a bit lower.

there is so many runes today because rune 6 effect. If effect removed, only stats left - that's much less runes to craft/buy. i would actually not craft lege runes (given the price) if there are just about two dozen of them, i could buy several exo sets per character and call it a day. 

7 runes cost about 2300 gold to craft, in gw2 it is not that little to just throw out

[Geralt.7519]

5 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Legendary runes will be still useful. Yeah they took a bit of power out of them and put it in a new item but they will remain great QOL. At some point players will still want to craft them, maybe the priority will be a bit lower.

You're totally missing the point.

They're not taking away a "little power", legendaries are NOT about power, they're about QoL and they're totally taking away the QoL that is changing set bonus on the fly, that is going away and it's huge.

And no, if runes were like this from the start very few people would have crafted legendaries because the reason to change runes is to change the set bonus, not the stats.

 

 

[Cuks.8241]

3 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

there is so many runes today because rune 6 effect. If effect removed, only stats left - that's much less runes to craft/buy. i would actually not craft lege runes (given the price) if there are just about two dozen of them, i could buy several exo sets per character and call it a day. 

7 runes cost about 2300 gold to craft, in gw2 it is not that little to just throw out

Yeah but legendary runes will still be best in slot runes after the change. And the crafting requirements will also stay the same, same amount of mats. So its not like the price of legendary runes will change after the patch.

On the other hand some exotic runes might go from several gold to trash tier. 

So if there is an argument for compensation, having legendary is actually not the best one. If there is a risk of devaluation its much bigger on exotics.

[Polar.8634]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

Yeah but legendary runes will still be best in slot runes after the change. And the crafting requirements will also stay the same, same amount of mats. So its not like the price of legendary runes will change after the patch.

exo runes are also best in slot, stats are the same. Especially, given the price of crafting, exo would be better. lesser amount of rune types would allow me just carry few sets in inventory

[Cuks.8241]

7 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

exo runes are also best in slot, stats are the same. Especially, given the price of crafting, exo would be better. lesser amount of rune types would allow me just carry few sets in inventory

Sure but exotics can become obsolete over time and many will with this patch. Legendaries are BIS forever by its nature. 

If you equipped for example 15 builds with expensive exotic runes you could easily go into a few hundred gold. And its quite possible those might go from BIS to vendor trash. You just lost hundreds of gold.

Legendary runes cost 2k gold and will cost the same after patch and will still be useful. The only change will be lower impact on your power level.

Yeah you might not be so inclined to actually craft them after the patch and maybe another legendary would be higher priority. But in the long run they are still great QOL investment.

Edit: I think the best solution is to launch with legendary relics which shouldnt be crazy expensive. Maybe just a price of 1 legendary rune.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Cuks.8241
Added the legendary relic part

[Geralt.7519]

19 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Yeah but legendary runes will still be best in slot runes after the change.

No, exotics will, they have exactly the same stats, but with consolidating all runes with the same stat into few and moving the set bonus to the relic slot you won't have many reasons anymore to change sets, so crafting leggy will be basically useless, 2300 gold thrown down the drain.

Edit: not to mention setting a precedent for legendaries not being the best QoL anymore, why would anyone want to put a lot of effort and money into crafting them if they can be devalued any moment?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Geralt.7519
add edit

[Polar.8634]

1 minute ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Sure but exotics can become obsolete over time and many will with this patch. Legendaries are BIS forever by its nature. 

well upcoming changes to runes make me doubt legendary will be bis forever(until they respond how they deal with this issue). 

 

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

If you equipped for example 15 builds with expensive exotic runes you could easily go into a few hundred gold. And its quite possible those might go from BIS to vendor trash. You just lost hundreds of gold.

 i activelly play 5 characters, i could equip each with 4 sets and then buy every existing rune set put in bank. with less rune types it would be totally possible. it would set me back few hundred gold, which is still not 2300g, and functionality is same.

[Geralt.7519]

13 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

well upcoming changes to runes make me doubt legendary will be bis forever(until they respond how they deal with this issue)

Exactly my thought, I already stopped working on additional legendaries, I'll wait until Anet tells us how they intend to deal with this issue, before I decide what to do going forward.

[Cuks.8241]

18 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

 i activelly play 5 characters, i could equip each with 4 sets and then buy every existing rune set put in bank. with less rune types it would be totally possible. it would set me back few hundred gold, which is still not 2300g, and functionality is same.

Exactly. You could equip your characters with all the exotics you would ever want for cheaper. So you didn't actually made legendary because of gold but because of QOL. And QOL stays, albeit a bit diminished.

So I dont really buy all this request for gold/material compensation. There might be fringe cases where their only legendary is runes and now those get diminished. But I am pretty sure many here have lots of legendaries and full banks of ascended (so they didnt even need legendaries at all outside of a little qol). Legendary weapons for example are not really that useful, ascended are easy to get and once you make a build you probably dont change stats so often. But many here probably have plenty of legendary weapons.

If there is anyone that will be actually hit by this change is someone that is new, has 80g in the bank and is still investing into basic stuff. They bought exotics for 3g a piece because runes have big impact on power lvl and now that rune might become completely obsolete. 

Full legendary players crying about this is like top 1% tycoon crying about having to pay 2 extra dollars for a burger (edit: not implying all you guys are ful legendary).

Edited July 3, 2023 by Cuks.8241

[Polar.8634]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Exactly. You could equip your characters with all the exotics you would ever want for cheaper. So you didn't actually made legendary because of gold but because of QOL. And QOL stays, albeit a bit diminished.

i actually made them for qol, since there are so many of them. Not so after expac

Edited July 3, 2023 by Polar.8634

[Geralt.7519]

6 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

 So you didn't actually made legendary because of gold but because of QOL. And QOL stays, albeit a bit diminished.

The main QoL of legendary runes is changing set bonus on the fly, that is totally going away, and with runes having stats only you won't need to change them often like you do now, that's another thing making legendary runes basically useless after the change, how is that so difficult to understand?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Geralt.7519
typo

[Polar.8634]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Full legendary players crying about this is like top 1% tycoon crying about having to pay 2 extra dollars for a burger (edit: not implying all you guys are ful legendary).

i am full lege but not 1%, due to gw2 efficiency in around 10% which is within ~40000 of ~400000 players registered on efficiency. And i think the fact i was so invested to craft runes should not make my time waste. Rather if any, it should be opposite