CMC should be embarrased

[eXruina.4956]

9 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah. Bad balance/balance oversight is one thing but let's not reach outside what is reasonable to ask here.

aye, let's keep it civil.

 

truth is we don't really know whats really going on back there.

 

also disagree with getting people fired, they can/should improve, get better.

 

but let me say this, it all matters, its not "just a game".  this is not the mindset anyone should have working in this industry or any industry.

Edited July 5, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

10 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Everyone here is over reacting. Tis just a video game. 

then they shouldn't be selling it. 🤣

[Flowki.7194]

There is nothing more rediculess than getting within 600 of a team mate to AOE heal, and then being hit with an AOE CC by a guy who is actively attacking somebody else, and full 180, isn't even looking at you. The game has much deeper issues in casual mechanics (like unpunished stealth), that w/e current spec being too strong is just gravy. I would actually hate to try and balance GW2 given its base mechancis.. and I seriously doubt anybody here could get it right either, not withought a huge revamp.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

41 upvotes, no confused, no cries, no laughs.

Maybe someone should be paying attention to this.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

41 upvotes, no confused, no cries, no  laughs

What have you done

[Hologram.2810]

he's probably giggling like a school girl reading all these salt threads

"tee hee! they're so angry! tee hee!"

meanwhile im just like: tee hee! let's see what happens when you lose all your playerbase and you don't have a job anymore! teehee! 🤣

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[Hologram.2810]

On 7/4/2023 at 6:14 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

King CMC should come out in the streets (forums) to talk with people 🙂

king of the molehill cmc

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[Nepster.4275]

I mean, sPvP is a joke at this point

The problem is way deeper than cata itself, it's one thing that the balance team does what it does (the latest example is staxe mirage)

And it's another thing that some things are just broken in some very very basic mechanical way, lemme explain

So, currently the biggest "unbalance" is cata, but let's look away from that class for a moment...

If you go into a PvP match most likely you will see 5 people on the enemy team, now one thing you can assume is that either 3 of 5 are playing condi if they have a support as fifth, or all of them do play condi except the one power

The condition damage, and conditions as a whole are broken on a basic mechanical level, first of all, to play a condi build you need the condi signet, it gives you condi-damage/power/vita

Now, even just by taking the stats into count, you are already having advantage over power classes because amulet wise you went full DPS but you get free survivability, but let's go a bit deeper, conditions can be stacked it makes their duration expand and also makes them do more damage, now, knowing these details you can just take a defensive trait line because well, you will need to spend more time in combat with an opponent because you need time for conditions to be applied or you can just go full ham and get all DPS traits

Doesn't matter which way you go, in the current meta WHERE most of the defensive traits are the condition traits anyway either with damaging conditions or utility, you can be sure that you will win most fights against a power class anyway

The difference between how conditions and power works is easy, let's say you get hit by a skill for 9k, what does a sane person do? 

You have more options:

1. You can run away

2. You can use a healing skill

2.5 You can try to block it

3. You can try to burst you opponent faster than he bursts you

In a normal and ideal scenario all these options work, they provide you with outplay potential and also most likely let you easily survive the situation, it's all fine, right?

And now, let's say you get 3 conditions on you, most classes can put this amount on you in around the same time a Warrior or a Holo can hit you with a 9k skill

So, what can you do with these 3 conditions? For the simplicity let's say these are Bleeding, Burning and Cripple

1. You can't run away, or even if you do the conditions stay on you and eventually kill you, and you also have cripple

2. Yes you can use a healing skill, but probably while casting you you get more conditions on you anyway

2.5 You can only invuln condies, blocking doesn't work, maybe a warrior can use the endure whatever it's called skill to survive a bit longer

3. By the time you got this amount of conditions on yourself the attacker probably just goes into defensive mode anyway

As a 4th options yes, you can cleanse it but while condition cleanse is possible it either burns expensive cooldowns(survival skills) or you can only remove a portion of the conditions anyway because you just don't have enough cleanse, again in a Power vs Condi matchup

As you can see, condition damage as a whole is the problem, not a specific class, and we have such a messed up balance that really you probably get hit for 5k per second from all the condies on you, while getting cripped, immob and other hard to deal with conditions on you and no class NOT EVEN SUPPORT classes can deal with this high amount of conditions, as a reaper you can just easily go up to a support and kill it in some seconds, because yes, will try to cleanse it, yes will try to heal it out, but eventually you apply conditions faster than the cleansing CDs come back

Some nice examples:

Condi reaper(2 health bars, marks, second healthpool scales with vitality, insane amount of synergy for applying multiple conditions with one skill)

Condition thief(on dagger you perma evade, if you play DD you have 3 dodge which applies conditions, stealth, hard CC traps)

Condition Druid(permanent immob, perma daze, pet as a tank and also as damage dealer, insane amount of healing with staff and CA, stealth)

Cata is well, we all know, a lot of times even the power variant kills with burning

And this is just 4 of them, like yes, even as a power class you have perma CC defense warrior, or Virtuoso or maybe even scrapper, but really, with the Warrior exception you can just condi burst most of these classes and watch as they die as they are trying to run away

Me myself, I refuse to play condi, simply because they are just too unbalanced and when playing condi I would feel like am using a GF/LI rotation in PvE raids, the whole condition build meta requires no skill/no knowledge of the game or even the enemy class or build/ and it's not fun

Like yea, I don't hate people who play condi, I can understand some ppl are into it, but in my eyes they are what I just described

So, as a PS, don't hate CmC for the current state of the class it's not the numerous buffs it got, like yes, it's an unfair class, but the problem with it, especially now is the same as with all the other condition builds

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:17 AM, eXruina.4956 said:

aye, let's keep it civil.

 

truth is we don't really know whats really going on back there.

 

also disagree with getting people fired, they can/should improve, get better.

 

but let me say this, it all matters, its not "just a game".  this is not the mindset anyone should have working in this industry or any industry.

If you fail at your job several times you get fired. So why is it a taboo when it's a game dev at the spotlight?

CMC shouldn't even have gotten hired in the first place. What was ANerf thinking? A player who only knows ele and had 0 experience at game balance. Balance is a delicate subject and should be done by someone with years of experience.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

About kitten time some ele stuff got reworked. Yall are just mad that ele is op for once in like 5 years.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

46 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

About kitten time some ele stuff got reworked. Yall are just mad that ele is op for once in like 5 years.

Here king, you dropped this

Quote

 [/s]

 

[Runa.2163]

Cata killed the game for me, I'm done.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Here king, you dropped this

 

Seriously though, when was the last time anyone used sceptre or dagger off hand on ele? When was the last time those weapons were even close to being meta? They 100% needed to be looked at. Obviously ele is OP now and some bad changes have been made (signet trait), but kitten some people here have pretty short term memory if they think ele favouritism has been the norm in this game.

Its especially ironic since the op has been making "rev isnt op" posts for years, including times when double or triple rev was meta.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

20 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Seriously though, when was the last time anyone used sceptre or dagger off hand on ele? When was the last time those weapons were even close to being meta? They 100% needed to be looked at. Obviously ele is OP now and some bad changes have been made (signet trait), but kitten some people here have pretty short term memory if they think ele favouritism has been the norm in this game.

Its especially ironic since the op has been making "rev isnt op" posts for years, including times when double or triple rev was meta.

Absolutely correct. The  [Insert class here] "Is the golden child of GW2, always and forever!"  really only applies to whatever people can't currently deal with. 

Dagger offhand in particular definitely needed to be looked at as well. There is a lot of room for the QoL the weapons have gained to be part of a class that needs to react to incoming damage, however. Start with changes specific to cata. 

All that being said it's still really funny that we keep getting immortal (X) on these patches though.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stallic.2397]

People are just salty. How long was staff Mirage dominate in the pvp scene? Or scourge? Minion mancer?.... Months if not longer. There were  countless YEARS that guardian was Anet's starchild. Just cause CMC mained Ele, there's suddenly favoritism and rise of the Ele Empire?? Lol, talk about dramatic. 

All those mentioned builds had their hayday and then got nerfed. Hard too. Same will happen to Catalyst. There's one Player on these forums replying to every Ele thread as if he's getting paid for it. But let's be serious, this isn't the first time a certain Profession was king of the hill by a long shot. And Catalyst won't be the last either. Let the meta play out. It'll change soon enough

Asking for a worker's termination when this has been the pattern of Anet's pvp philosophy for years?? Guys, get a grip. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Stallic.2397

[AlPower.2476]

15 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

People are just salty. How long was staff Mirage dominate in the pvp scene? Or scourge? Minion mancer?.... Months if not longer. There were  countless YEARS that guardian was Anet's starchild. Just cause CMC mained Ele, there's suddenly favoritism and rise of the Ele Empire?? Lol, talk about dramatic. 

All those mentioned builds had their hayday and then got nerfed. Hard too. Same will happen to Catalyst. There's one Player on these forums replying to every Ele thread as if he's getting paid for it. But let's be serious, this isn't the first time a certain Profession was king of the hill by a long shot. And Catalyst won't be the last either. Let the meta play out. It'll change soon enough

Asking for a worker's termination when this has been the pattern of Anet's pvp philosophy for years?? Guys, get a grip. 

So we should ignore current OP bias for a ele 'cause there was one for guardian. Good logic.  I was against that too; when PvE meta was 1 Chrono, 1 Firebrand and 8 DragonHunters carrying feel my wrath; or 8 condi firebrands doing it either; then PvP one was Firebrand support and WvW firebrand support (and even had a Gread condi zerg build); hated that meta too. But that poorly designed meta was as annoying as this one.

And mirage was disgusting, but not so hard as ele; plus mirage was only meta in PvP; Catalyst right now is meta in every game mode (and for PvP/WvW roaming is a beast with no control) and Tempest is also overperforming in PvP/WvW. Both since MONTHS. 

There shouldn't be an overperforming class like current cata and tempest NEVER. There's always a class above all in PvP 'cause basically it's impossible to balance the game; but one thing is to have a 1000 power level class fighting an  850 one, or a 930 one; that having a 4000 class fighting a 900 one.

Disgusting, this shouldn't happen even if it's ur favorite class.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

 You can only invuln condies, blocking doesn't work, maybe a warrior can use the endure whatever it's called skill to survive a bit longer

 

I don't agree with your condi argument, but I'm not gonna argue it atm. I just wanna point out "Endure Pain" specifically doesn't work against condis. It's not a true invuln.

[Stallic.2397]

27 minutes ago, AlPower.2476 said:

So we should ignore current OP bias for a ele 'cause there was one for guardian. Good logic.  I was against that too; when PvE meta was 1 Chrono, 1 Firebrand and 8 DragonHunters carrying feel my wrath; or 8 condi firebrands doing it either; then PvP one was Firebrand support and WvW firebrand support (and even had a Gread condi zerg build); hated that meta too. But that poorly designed meta was as annoying as this one.

And mirage was disgusting, but not so hard as ele; plus mirage was only meta in PvP; Catalyst right now is meta in every game mode (and for PvP/WvW roaming is a beast with no control) and Tempest is also overperforming in PvP/WvW. Both since MONTHS. 

There shouldn't be an overperforming class like current cata and tempest NEVER. There's always a class above all in PvP 'cause basically it's impossible to balance the game; but one thing is to have a 1000 power level class fighting an  850 one, or a 930 one; that having a 4000 class fighting a 900 one.

Disgusting, this shouldn't happen even if it's ur favorite class.

 

You missed the point of my argument:

This isn't new behavior. 

This isnt favoritism.

This isn't permanent 

 

You're trying to tell me there was never a time when guardian wasn't King of the hill in WvW, PvE, and PvP? All at the same time?? That's a good laugh 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Stallic.2397

[Nepster.4275]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I don't agree with your condi argument, but I'm not gonna argue it atm. I just wanna point out "Endure Pain" specifically doesn't work against condis. It's not a true invuln.

Well, that's why I said "maybe" I wasn't sure about it, Warrior is not really my cup of tea

But in the end it just makes my point more valid of condition damage having a lot less things to do against

1 hour ago, Stallic.2397 said:

People are just salty. How long was staff Mirage dominate in the pvp scene? Or scourge? Minion mancer?.... Months if not longer. There were  countless YEARS that guardian was Anet's starchild. Just cause CMC mained Ele, there's suddenly favoritism and rise of the Ele Empire?? Lol, talk about dramatic. 

All those mentioned builds had their hayday and then got nerfed. Hard too. Same will happen to Catalyst. There's one Player on these forums replying to every Ele thread as if he's getting paid for it. But let's be serious, this isn't the first time a certain Profession was king of the hill by a long shot. And Catalyst won't be the last either. Let the meta play out. It'll change soon enough

Asking for a worker's termination when this has been the pattern of Anet's pvp philosophy for years?? Guys, get a grip. 

I mean not to disagree, but Cata is being kiiiiiinda in a top spot since it's realease

The fact that it's not abused a lot does not mean the class itself was bad, even when EoD got released and like a month after Cata got some buffs and started to see more and more in my games, just last Feb there was a big drama about how op FA cata is, just before that for a long time hammer cata was kind of unkillable even before the tempest support meta

So we are not talking about "months" we are getting close to say more than a year

And yea, the state of the game is not specifically CmC's fault, the balance team always worked like this, they buff and buff and buff some parts of a class and they keep doing it until a drama like this pops up, then nerfs it to the ground so something new can be OP, seeing the same thing happening since years, nothing really new here

6 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

About kitten time some ele stuff got reworked. Yall are just mad that ele is op for once in like 5 years.

And exactly like this is how a class get's to OP territory, the fact that a given class is good at a given time, so hammer cata was rather very decent but hard to use, the hard to use part makes ppl to complain about a class being underpowered, the balance team listening and shooting every skill level up to stop people complaining, and we end up here

[AlPower.2476]

10 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

 

 

You're trying to tell me there was never a time when guardian wasn't King of the hill in WvW, PvE, and PvP? All at the same time?? That's a good laugh 

Your reading comprehension is the good laugh here: I literally said:

" I was against that too; when PvE meta was 1 Chrono, 1 Firebrand and 8 DragonHunters carrying feel my wrath; or 8 condi firebrands doing it either; then PvP one was Firebrand support and WvW firebrand support (and even had a Gread condi zerg build); hated that meta too. But that poorly designed meta was as annoying as this one."

So, not only did you miss the point, but you also failed to grasp the literal meaning of the entire quote. I hate this, it doesn't matter who is the ruling class.

And your point stills poor; . It doesn't matter if "This isn't new behavior" or "This isn't permanent" (because favoritism... hehe, it's hard to believe that such a thing doesn't exist). We simply don't want it; it's not good. As I mentioned, the issue isn't having the strongest class in the game, running in the park like a Pit Bull among Labrador and Golden Retrievers; the problem is to have a kitten Siberian Tiger Running between Labrador and Golden retrievers.

As for favoritistm; hard to think otherwise. CmC has been buffing Catalyst and Tempest for months. Everytime that he nerfs them, he buffs another things in order to compensate it. 

Heres CmC Nerfing Ele : "X skill damage has been reduced from 1.6 to 1.333; CD increased from 25secs to 30 secs" then "Fire magic X thing base damage increased from 0.9 to 1.2; cd reduced from 30 secs to 20 secs". | This rarename Earth thing block protection has been reduced from 5 to 3 secs. then "This water superduper healing thing has his healing base increased from 1 to 1.5; CD reduced from 25 secs to 20 secs; it also now gives you a Glock 9mm when activated".

Heres CmC nerfing every non ele class "X skill damage has been reduced from 2.0 to 1.4; CD increased from 45 secs to 90 secs. Oh, the community said that it wasn't the correct form to nerf 'cause i'm killing several other options even more that the intended hotfix build? Okay, I'll nerf it even more; also there's your wood sword to defend yourself s you can't tell me that I didn't give you anything".

Also, remeber CmC "hotfixing" (killing lots of builds that didn't even overperform in the process) Scrapper after 2 weeks of him getting a "Meta" status? But he lasted months to fixing FA Catalyst? And now, that this build is even worst, he haven't done anything? And I'm not gonna talk about Holo's Sword in beta agaisnt Weaver's weapons.

There shouldn't be favorite children, neither blue, nor green, nor yellow, nor orange, nor red ones.

Edited July 7, 2023 by AlPower.2476

[Nepster.4275]

1 hour ago, AlPower.2476 said:

Your reading comprehension is the good laugh here: I literally said:

" I was against that too; when PvE meta was 1 Chrono, 1 Firebrand and 8 DragonHunters carrying feel my wrath; or 8 condi firebrands doing it either; then PvP one was Firebrand support and WvW firebrand support (and even had a Gread condi zerg build); hated that meta too. But that poorly designed meta was as annoying as this one."

So, not only did you miss the point, but you also failed to grasp the literal meaning of the entire quote. I hate this, it doesn't matter who is the ruling class.

And your point stills poor; . It doesn't matter if "This isn't new behavior" or "This isn't permanent" (because favoritism... hehe, it's hard to believe that such a thing doesn't exist). We simply don't want it; it's not good. As I mentioned, the issue isn't having the strongest class in the game, running in the park like a Pit Bull among Labrador and Golden Retrievers; the problem is to have a kitten Siberian Tiger Running between Labrador and Golden retrievers.

As for favoritistm; hard to think otherwise. CmC has been buffing Catalyst and Tempest for months. Everytime that he nerfs them, he buffs another things in order to compensate it. 

Heres CmC Nerfing Ele : "X skill damage has been reduced from 1.6 to 1.333; CD increased from 25secs to 30 secs" then "Fire magic X thing base damage increased from 0.9 to 1.2; cd reduced from 30 secs to 20 secs". | This rarename Earth thing block protection has been reduced from 5 to 3 secs. then "This water superduper healing thing has his healing base increased from 1 to 1.5; CD reduced from 25 secs to 20 secs; it also now gives you a Glock 9mm when activated".

Heres CmC nerfing every non ele class "X skill damage has been reduced from 2.0 to 1.4; CD increased from 45 secs to 90 secs. Oh, the community said that it wasn't the correct form to nerf 'cause i'm killing several other options even more that the intended hotfix build? Okay, I'll nerf it even more; also there's your wood sword to defend yourself s you can't tell me that I didn't give you anything".

Also, remeber CmC "hotfixing" (killing lots of builds that didn't even overperform) Scrapper after 2 weeks of him getting a "Meta" status? But he lasted months to fixing FA Catalyst? And now, that this build is even worst, he haven't done anything? And I'm not gonna talk about Holo's Sword in beta agaisnt Weaver's weapons.

There shouldn't be favorite children, neither blue, nor green, nor yellow, nor orange, nor red ones.

Just give chrono unblockable shatters that cannot even be invulned, and pChrono will deal with Cata xD

[Stallic.2397]

11 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

Your reading comprehension is the good laugh here: I literally said:

" I was against that too; when PvE meta was 1 Chrono, 1 Firebrand and 8 DragonHunters carrying feel my wrath; or 8 condi firebrands doing it either; then PvP one was Firebrand support and WvW firebrand support (and even had a Gread condi zerg build); hated that meta too. But that poorly designed meta was as annoying as this one."

So, not only did you miss the point, but you also failed to grasp the literal meaning of the entire quote. I hate this, it doesn't matter who is the ruling class.

And your point stills poor; . It doesn't matter if "This isn't new behavior" or "This isn't permanent" (because favoritism... hehe, it's hard to believe that such a thing doesn't exist). We simply don't want it; it's not good. As I mentioned, the issue isn't having the strongest class in the game, running in the park like a Pit Bull among Labrador and Golden Retrievers; the problem is to have a kitten Siberian Tiger Running between Labrador and Golden retrievers.

As for favoritistm; hard to think otherwise. CmC has been buffing Catalyst and Tempest for months. Everytime that he nerfs them, he buffs another things in order to compensate it. 

Heres CmC Nerfing Ele : "X skill damage has been reduced from 1.6 to 1.333; CD increased from 25secs to 30 secs" then "Fire magic X thing base damage increased from 0.9 to 1.2; cd reduced from 30 secs to 20 secs". | This rarename Earth thing block protection has been reduced from 5 to 3 secs. then "This water superduper healing thing has his healing base increased from 1 to 1.5; CD reduced from 25 secs to 20 secs; it also now gives you a Glock 9mm when activated".

Heres CmC nerfing every non ele class "X skill damage has been reduced from 2.0 to 1.4; CD increased from 45 secs to 90 secs. Oh, the community said that it wasn't the correct form to nerf 'cause i'm killing several other options even more that the intended hotfix build? Okay, I'll nerf it even more; also there's your wood sword to defend yourself s you can't tell me that I didn't give you anything".

Also, remeber CmC "hotfixing" (killing lots of builds that didn't even overperform in the process) Scrapper after 2 weeks of him getting a "Meta" status? But he lasted months to fixing FA Catalyst? And now, that this build is even worst, he haven't done anything? And I'm not gonna talk about Holo's Sword in beta agaisnt Weaver's weapons.

There shouldn't be favorite children, neither blue, nor green, nor yellow, nor orange, nor red ones.

How to say you're salty af without actually saying you're salty af... 

I never argued the morality of Anet's balancing philosophy. I simply pointed out, this is how it's been done for years. 

You can cry and cry about it. Or recognize the pattern and realize soon enough, cata will get nerfed and another class will take its place. 

But honestly, with your attitude, I hope cata stays on top for years more to come. I like hearing you cry like a little kitten. Good riddance 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Stallic.2397

[Dreams.3128]

On 7/5/2023 at 1:25 AM, offence.4726 said:

OP and these posts are on point !

I currently play some other mmorpgs won't name them but they are on the popular side , i don't remember classes being either this broken or this nerfed for such a long period of time in any of these titles ever.

The management of this game in terms of balancing should be replaced asap and severely looked into , i'm a day 1 vanilla player with 3000 hours under my belt and I must say i really miss the old days , the state of the game currently is unplayable and IMHO everyone should stop pvping for the time being and even more so wvw'ing and then when they see the player dip they might actually do something about it.

This game feels like it's been abandoned  and is being ran by a ghost dev crew. Sorry but that's how it feels right now.

FF was dominated by White Mages in FF. Ninjas are the top class while Samurai can literally one shot people off the map. This sort of stuff happens in a lot of mmos. BDO is another example of what happens when people think the grass is greener on the other side. PA has a whole team dedicated to PVP balance and they are JUST nerfing their newest class right now while completely neglecting older classes.

[AlPower.2476]

1 hour ago, Stallic.2397 said:

How to say you're salty af without actually saying you're salty af... 

I never argued the morality of Anet's balancing philosophy. I simply pointed out, this is how it's been done for years. 

You can cry and cry about it. Or recognize the pattern and realize soon enough, cata will get nerfed and another class will take its place. 

But honestly, with your attitude, I hope cata stays on top for years more to come. I like hearing you cry like a little kitten. Good riddance 

Oh yeah, the "I never said X thing" and "You can cry" escape argument.

Also the " I like hearing you cry like a little kitten." . Gonna stop responding you 'cause  you are starting to divert the topic and attack the person, something for which the forum is not made, regards.

[fatedhater.9301]

if i performed this poorly at my job for this long i would be fired.

there been plenty of time for CMC and the rest to get their acts together, time to hire people who can actually do the job.

the state of balance isnt accident.

edit: 1 way to resolve these kind of issue before they get out of control is to have a PTR, like pretty much every single other game in existence has. releasing patches directly from the drawing board to live servers is probably the laziest option available.

Edited July 9, 2023 by fatedhater.9301