[deleted]

[oscuro.9720]

On 7/17/2023 at 10:18 AM, chromodynamix.2495 said:

ignore Hundred Blades

I mean yea, you can literally ignore hundred blades it’s trash.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Ok but a "bad" gun flame playing against other similar skilled opponents wrecks them even worse-

Nah nah nah

Clever framing, but no.  Everything in this game has a noobstomper variant.  That's not an argument. If we made judgements specifically at this skill level, no build would be deemed as fair.

Think it through. What happens when a unskilled or average gunflame player tries to deal with anyone that knows what they're doing? Does the build lead to unfair or unearned metrics?

I understand your concern for the new player experience but I cant help but feel it's a detour to avoid looking at an objective fact about gunzerker in general. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Bunbury.8472]

Everyone in this thread needs to take a look at this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAQFlRwoYTMEWJO+KatKA-zZILBbHAA

Look at it. I even swapped out the stunbreak for bolas so it can do the feared combo that OP describes. Go take a look at this build a tell me if it looks OP, or like a complete meme. it has no blocks, no invun, no stab, no cleanse, no stunbreak, a 2k heal and one CC skill. is this really a strong OP build that can't be countered, or are people just getting outplayed by warrior rifle enthusiasts on a meme build?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

Everyone in this thread needs to take a look at this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAQFlRwoYTMEWJO+KatKA-zZILBbHAA

Look at it. I even swapped out the stunbreak for bolas so it can do the feared combo that OP describes. Go take a look at this build a tell me if it looks OP, or like a complete meme. it has no blocks, no invun, no stab, no cleanse, no stunbreak, a 2k heal and one CC skill. is this really a strong OP build that can't be countered, or are people just getting outplayed by warrior rifle enthusiasts on a meme build?

not the kitten throw bolas again

Quote

 is this really a strong OP build that can't be countered, or are people just getting outplayed by warrior rifle enthusiasts on a meme build?

It's shroedinger's cheese

Op if it hits you, trash if it doesnt.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Bunbury.8472]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

not the kitten throw bolas again

 

swapping endure pain for bolas is a gigachad move & deserves everyones utmost respect 🫡

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah nah nah

Clever framing, but no.  Everything in this game has a noobstomper variant.  That's not an argument. If we made judgements specifically at this skill level, no build would be deemed as fair.

Think it through. What happens when a unskilled or average gunflame player tries to deal with anyone that knows what they're doing? Does the build lead to unfair or unearned metrics?

I understand your concern for the new player experience but I cant help but feel it's a detour to avoid looking at an objective fact about gunzerker in general. 

You took issue with my qualifier of a good warrior against an experienced Druid.   My point stands s the same effect happens with a bad gunflame against a bad Druid.  If’m just saying you can substitute the qualifier out.   Though an excellent ranger against an excellent gunflamer is probably going to turn out quite different.

 

[Bunbury.8472]

32 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

You took issue with my qualifier of a good warrior against an experienced Druid.   My point stands s the same effect happens with a bad gunflame against a bad Druid.  If’m just saying you can substitute the qualifier out.   Though an excellent ranger against an excellent gunflamer is probably going to turn out quite different.

 

go look at the build you actually play to land big tasty gunflames & arc dividers

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAQFlRwoYTMEWJO+KatKA-zZILBbHAA

if this build is too hard for someone to counterplay I actually don't think they can be considered a good player, let alone an excellent one. furthermore even if the gunflames player is excellent they have so little tools to avoid death on the build that they are going to lose against much weaker players on stronger, meta builds. there is a reason gunflame isn't meta or seen in tournaments or at any high level play. it's a meme build, and if you don't think it's a meme build and think it's OP and hard to counterplay go try it out in ranked.

[shion.2084]

52 minutes ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

go look at the build you actually play to land big tasty gunflames & arc dividers

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAQFlRwoYTMEWJO+KatKA-zZILBbHAA

if this build is too hard for someone to counterplay I actually don't think they can be considered a good player, let alone an excellent one. furthermore even if the gunflames player is excellent they have so little tools to avoid death on the build that they are going to lose against much weaker players on stronger, meta builds. there is a reason gunflame isn't meta or seen in tournaments or at any high level play. it's a meme build, and if you don't think it's a meme build and think it's OP and hard to counterplay go try it out in ranked.

Yes the build is so easy to counter... look at an actual video of it in play, and what a player who's decent and getting wiped out by it actually sees.  I posted a literal video of play from the perspective of someone fighting one.

 

 

look at it in context of conquest, not an on paper duel and tell me how you would have reacted to the super easy to counter build much better in the players position

Edited July 20, 2023 by shion.2084

[Zekent.3652]

55 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Yes the build is so easy to counter... look at an actual video of it in play, and what a player who's decent and getting wiped out by it actually sees.  I posted a literal video of play from the perspective of someone fighting one.

If you're talking about this https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1873837742?t=02h23m41s, mukluk is doing a lot of mistakes there.

Honestly, just try the build and see how it goes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Yes the build is so easy to counter... look at an actual video of it in play, and what a player who's decent and getting wiped out by it actually sees.  I posted a literal video of play from the perspective of someone fighting one.

 

 

look at it in context of conquest, not an on paper duel and tell me how you would have reacted to the super easy to counter build much better in the players position

And in context anyone with awareness will see it coming and literally take cover to use LOS to negate the Gunflame. It's strong, but it has no survivability. That is a fair trade. A build that gives up all survivability should do that kind of damage. Dodge/LOS the first Gunflame and then pressure the Berserker hard. Or by Balthazar's cold corpse pop some protection and/or barrier and tank it. It's not like it's a grenade barrage out of stealth or anything.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

You took issue with my qualifier of a good warrior against an experienced Druid.   My point stands s the same effect happens with a bad gunflame against a bad Druid.  If’m just saying you can substitute the qualifier out.   Though an excellent ranger against an excellent gunflamer is probably going to turn out quite different.

 

If they wouldn't have removed Ancient Seeds it wouldn't be close--a good Druid would win every time.  As prior to gunflame memers we had engi rifle / mech memer's and those were super easy to deal with / ignore on a Druid.  

Even now I have a hard time seeing a Druid lose to a gunflame--I thought Muk was more casual/PvE so probably why he was getting farmed.  

Actually nvm, I just look at the vid and he is on support build and way out of place so idk what that is even supposed to show.  

[shion.2084]

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And in context anyone with awareness will see it coming and literally take cover to use LOS to negate the Gunflame. It's strong, but it has no survivability. That is a fair trade. A build that gives up all survivability should do that kind of damage. Dodge/LOS the first Gunflame and then pressure the Berserker hard. Or by Balthazar's cold corpse pop some protection and/or barrier and tank it. It's not like it's a grenade barrage out of stealth or anything.

Of course it's not a grenade barrage out of stealth... that does 8k not 13.  Oh and I can block it.  And they can't do it twice.... so yeah point taken.

Edited July 21, 2023 by shion.2084

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Of course it's not a grenade barrage out of stealth... that does 8k not 13.  Oh and I can block it.  And they can't do it twice.... so yeah point taken.

The point is you have a glowing red guy blowing their entire utility bar of signets while in combat, so they are on your map, as a massive warning sign that a bad thing is inbound versus a bad thing literally coming out of nowhere.  One gives you plenty of warning about what is about to happen while the other doesn't.  Especially since one of those two devotes everything to damage and no sustain.

[Greyrat.2378]

Why are people still arguing about it?
Is it toxic? Kind of.
Just like one trick pony mesmers with moa signet and stealth, bursting you with very little counterplay.
Or scrapper stacking every possible damage modifier and again, abusing stealth to get unfair advantage and burst you down within few seconds.
Out of all these borderline degen builds, I find gunflame zerker the least annoying to fight and easiest to make sure that he does not leave the spawn area.

edit: btw I don't particularly want any of these builds to disappear from the game. It's annoying but that's about it, and most of the time it's fairly easy to kill them if they fail their burst.
If people are having fun while playing these builds, good for you. But let's not pretend that builds like that does not crumble the moment someone jumps on them.
It's all about element of surprise. Once it's gone and your opponent is alive, you are in deep trouble.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Greyrat.2378
edit

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

Why are people still arguing about it?

If we make it to 10 pages we get a Steam achievement for discussing nerfing gunflame (Again) in 2023

Quote

If people are having fun while playing these builds, good for you. But let's not pretend that builds like that does not crumble the moment someone jumps on them.

I'll take fun meme trash that has a "this is how you survive this" label plastered on it over hand-holdy, effectively bunker wars moderated combat but that's just me 🐸🍹

How many people liked the megapatch that made cc do negative damage again? Surely enough that we should keep going.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Of course it's not a grenade barrage out of stealth... that does 8k not 13.  Oh and I can block it.  And they can't do it twice.... so yeah point taken.

Comparing a normal Grenade Barrage to a crit Gunflame, lovely comparison. Not like a month or so ago the complaints weren't that Grenade Barrage crits for like 18k or anything

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Comparing a normal Grenade Barrage to a crit Gunflame, lovely comparison. Not like a month or so ago the complaints weren't that Grenade Barrage crits for like 18k or anything

They don’t crit for 18k… show me an example of anyone out of stealth getting  18k on someone standing about unaware.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

11 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

They don’t crit for 18k… show me an example of anyone out of stealth getting  18k on someone standing about unaware.

It is important to note that when saying "like 18k" the person typing it is not saying "exactly 18k". 

Then again, hitting people with Grenade Barrage for 12-13k(the highest I got was ~14k), then hitting them for 3-4k a split second later with Explosive Entrance requires less setup than pretty much everything people complain about here.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

It is important to note that when saying "like 18k" the person typing it is not saying "exactly 18k". 

Then again, hitting people with Grenade Barrage for 12-13k(the highest I got was ~14k), then hitting them for 3-4k a split second later with Explosive Entrance requires less setup than pretty much everything people complain about here.

*Gestures*