Ranger is new signet cata - it gotta be balanced/nerfed next.

[Flowki.7194]

15 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Just remove all the might stacking it has.

That would cut about 1/4th or more of its damage output.

Keep the might, sort out cheap target drops once and for all?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Keep the might, sort out cheap target drops once and for all?

You don't understand, everything a Soulbeast does deals a lot of damage as a base. That's just the way the class is designed.

If you try to keep the might, literally any weapon used on that one build structure is going to land 2-shot combos left & right. I've already showed you in the other thread that even an offhand axe 5 literally oneshots Svanir as example.

If you try to keep the might and start messing with other skills, then that effect every other Ranger build that isn't stacking 25 might. Does it make sense to nerf all these weapon skills for Core Ranger, Druid, Untamed, and other Soulbeast builds, when they've never been a problem before? No it doesn't.

The problem is the easy might stacking. It's pumping way way too much might. It's the same kind of issue Catalyst had when auto 1 might stacking in conjunction with fire field blasts. It's just way way way too much might way too easily, which made it hit like a truck with literally every random skill it had.

Let me again, forewarn you all, what's going to happen if the community ignorantly targets weapon skills instead of the might stacking. Let's say the community gets everything on sword and greatsword and warhorn nerfed, literally every skill. Ok so now because you ignored the real problem which is might stacking, that same exact build structure can just put on Grieving or Carrion or Rabid or Sinister, and use Shortbow with Axe & Torch or Dagger or even Soulbeast Dagger mainhand, and now you've got a build again with different weapons that's pumping 25 might stacks for +750 power and condi still, but now on a condi build structure. It's going to oneshot people as badly or worse than the power variant.

The problem is the might stacks.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You don't understand, everything a Soulbeast does deals a lot of damage as a base. That's just the way the class is designed.

If you try to keep the might, literally any weapon used on that one build structure is going to land 2-shot combos left & right. I've already showed you in the other thread that even an offhand axe 5 literally oneshots Svanir as example.

If you try to keep the might and start messing with other skills, then that effect every other Ranger build that isn't stacking 25 might. Does it make sense to nerf all these weapon skills for Core Ranger, Druid, Untamed, and other Soulbeast builds, when they've never been a problem before? No it doesn't.

The problem is the easy might stacking. It's pumping way way too much might. It's the same kind of issue Catalyst had when auto 1 might stacking in conjunction with fire field blasts. It's just way way way too much might way too easily, which made it hit like a truck with literally every random skill it had.

Let me again, forewarn you all, what's going to happen if the community ignorantly targets weapon skills instead of the might stacking. Let's say the community gets everything on sword and greatsword and warhorn nerfed, literally every skill. Ok so now because you ignored the real problem which is might stacking, that same exact build structure can just put on Grieving or Carrion or Rabid or Sinister, and use Shortbow with Axe & Torch or Dagger or even Soulbeast Dagger mainhand, and now you've got a build again with different weapons that's pumping 25 might stacks for +750 power and condi still, but now on a condi build structure. It's going to oneshot people as badly or worse than the power variant.

The problem is the might stacks.

Im targeting the mechanic of stealth jump/target drops, I don't care if its a weapon skill or not. They are essentially a god-tier dodge.. you can do it too early and it doesn't really matter, becuase you cannot be targeted, and then you have to be targeted again while the player also has to worry about dodging your jump burst. If you miss a normal dodge, you face tank the damage, and so you should. SPB stuns are very similar to this, they mititage like a dodge, but are so easy to chain together, and more difficult to work around. 

 

Also, many specs have faceroll dmg, willbender, herald etc.. rev especially, has more loops to jump through in order to apply the damage, and a lot of it is broadcasted (too broadcasted if you ask me). The amount of damage soulbeast can do from a stealth jump or pull is rediculous. Its basically a combination of power necro CC+herald dps+DD jump. Don't act like a might nerf will fix this, as if team mates sharing might, vulnerability stacks, quickness and w/e else is not also a thing.

 

It is also yet another spec that deficates all over what should be the thiefs primary and unique function; ''medium'' damage from stealth. High damage from stealth will always be a broken thing to balance, which is pretty much what we see now, a useless thief in group fights which is compensated for with annoying unkillable mobility, or an SB/scrapper with faceroll burst that is compensated for with less mobility (if you live long enough to punish them for it). The thiefs mobility would not be so annoying if not for 5v5 having 3 capture points, its the mode that makes it horrible to fight.

 

The game most certainly does not need more viable specs that spew out high damage from target drops. It is not far behind SPB stunlocks in being a cheap, low quality engagement for the player on the recieving end.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Also, many specs have faceroll dmg, willbender, herald etc.. rev especially, has more loops to jump through in order to apply the damage, and a lot of it is broadcasted (too broadcasted if you ask me)

Yeah no.

Judge's Intervention & Phase Traversal possess actual 0 telegraphs, especially when coming at you blindly through massive terrain objects like the mountains in Forest.

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Im targeting the mechanic of stealth jump/target drops, I don't care if its a weapon skill or not. They are essentially a god-tier dodge

Come on dude. Every class has a handful of evades or blocks or invulns or w/e defensive tools. 

You're reaching out too far to try and demonize everything on the build.

The problem is the damage output, nothing else. And the bulk of what makes it feel overwhelming is too much might stacking.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Judge's Intervention

Ye

Quote

Phase Traversal

Nah you can punish this

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah no.

Judge's Intervention & Phase Traversal possess actual 0 telegraphs, especially when coming at you blindly through massive terrain objects like the mountains in Forest.

Come on dude. Every class has a handful of evades or blocks or invulns or w/e defensive tools. 

You're reaching out too far to try and demonize everything on the build.

The problem is the damage output, nothing else. And the bulk of what makes it feel overwhelming is too much might stacking.

 

Teleports going through terrain is broken, but im not against teleports other than that. Target drops are not ''terrain broken'' and are not comparable mechanics wise.

 

Take a standard immune, you can see when its being used, and the player cannot attack back while using it. These are the most balanced imo.

 

The next step up is warrior type of immune which is also a handy stunbreak, doesn't effect condi, but allows the player to attack back while blocking that type of damage. It may be more balanced for the warrior player encounter to ecnounter.. but when you are playing power vs a warrior its annoying af. Its part of what allows the avg warrior to facetank dmg while putting out his own stuns, which then allow him to get away with even less dodge counter play that others have to use. Doing dmg to others while immune.. alot like tempest mag for ranger, im well aware how annoying that is to vs, as I played a lot of rev also. But at the same time, sitting back with a bow spewing damage at melee classes is not hard. Cheap counter for cheap damage.

 

Then their are target drops, the ultimate immune. You can't really attack the player, you can't see the player, and then can then set you up for burst. With the previous 2 immunes, its much easier to see what the player intends to do, be it running away/to you.

 

I am not reaching out too far at all. Target drops are way overused in Gw2.. and for all specs that have them, they will always be on the razor edge of being useless or just too strong. They cannot recieve propper buffs.. we've seen what scrapper, deadeye, chrono and now soulbeast are doing.

[Sereath.1428]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:01 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah no.

Judge's Intervention & Phase Traversal possess actual 0 telegraphs, especially when coming at you blindly through massive terrain objects like the mountains in Forest.

Typical
Phase Traversal has always had an activation time. And when interrupted it will still consume 35 energy.
Otherwise you would be able to precast animations from range for other strong skills, just like Untamed used to when Unnatural Traversal was instant.
And by having a cast time you can't use it to get away while CCed. That makes all the difference.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Eddie.9143]

45 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Typical
Phase Traversal has always had an activation time. And when interrupted it will still consume 35 energy.
Otherwise you would be able to precast animations from range for other strong skills, just like Untamed used to when Unnatural Traversal was instant.

No one's interrupting PT, because it's always used from behind a wall..

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

Boyce: sword does too much damage, the traits are power crept, too many leaps for too much stealth

Trevor: ITS JUST THE MIGHT GUYS!

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Sereath.1428]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:32 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

No one's interrupting PT, because it's always used from behind a wall..

Ahaha
Happens all the time when bad players try rev and PT whenever they can in the middle of a clusterkitten of attacks.
Again, the point of casting times is to prevent simultaneously casting and to prevent it from being used while CCed otherwise it becomes a jail free card.
You people just want reskinned Bull's Charge and GS leaps for every other class, right? Do you really expect the squishier classes to just run in a straight line like warriors and even rangers can, when playing melee builds?
Ranger topic about 20k+ and CC combos to then "But the teleports of these other classes tho?!?!"

Edited July 31, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Khenzy.9348]

10 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Boyce: sword does too much damage, the traits are power crept, too many leaps for too much stealth

Trevor: ITS JUST THE MIGHT GUYS!

What a blatant oversimplification.

Sword does too much damage mostly because trait sinergy provides lots of might stacking and you get a crap ton of crit damage also from passive bonuses. Both Boyce and Trevor are on the right path. As for stealth, it's literally one more leap than before, stealth is not the problem here.

Also, comparing this build to signet Cata is laughable at best. It's nowhere near as strong.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

4 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

What a blatant oversimplification.

Sword does too much damage mostly because trait sinergy provides lots of might stacking and you get a crap ton of crit damage also from passive bonuses. Both Boyce and Trevor are on the right path. As for stealth, it's literally one more leap than before, stealth is not the problem here.

Also, comparing this build to signet Cata is laughable at best. It's nowhere near as strong.

Oh, well lets give Mirage one more dodge. It would literally be one more dodge so it can't be a problem. It' s just one more dodge. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Generic commentary but

The wheel of advocating for nerfing things you dont like then being surprised when the class you play becomes the thing nobody likes continues I guess

Edited July 30, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Oh, well lets give Mirage one more dodge. It would literally be one more dodge so it can't be a problem. It' s just one more dodge. 

It’s not a dodge, they actually removed the dodge.

the new sword is worse for bunker and condi builds, but better for power by many times

[Acyk.9671]

soulbeast the new cata?? is this a joke? the only outlier in this build is pig maul for not being aligned with previous balance from a damage perspective. The rest can be countered like everything else, nowhere will 4 soulbeast achieve anything in a comp...

Crying wolf as always

[Flowki.7194]

9 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

What a blatant oversimplification.

Sword does too much damage mostly because trait sinergy provides lots of might stacking and you get a crap ton of crit damage also from passive bonuses. Both Boyce and Trevor are on the right path. As for stealth, it's literally one more leap than before, stealth is not the problem here.

Also, comparing this build to signet Cata is laughable at best. It's nowhere near as strong.

Core ele for example does some decent damage and doesn't have much might, it is weaker due to its sustain, not damage. Sorry but given the choice, Id rather have stealth over might, if that was the choice. Stealth adds more reliability to damage applied, while the target drops also act as a good mitigation/sustain in any situation, against most other specs. Then, there are classes that still give you quickness, crit and might, while also applying vuln to targets.

 

Target drops are annoying af in the middle of group fights, they are such a free ride. They are a worse virsion of power necro, run into stupid situations > just reap, aka target drop.

 

Normally, this is why 1 class alone usually has it in any game with a sense of real balance. In this game, you are all just too use to this kinde thing to think it isn't toxic.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Mell.4873]

20 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Boyce: sword does too much damage, the traits are power crept, too many leaps for too much stealth

Trevor: ITS JUST THE MIGHT GUYS!

Watch him play it, he misses most of his opening skills and just relies on the damage from Sword auto alone to down people. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Watch him play it, he misses most of his opening skills and just relies on the damage from Sword auto alone to down people. 

Yeah know not enough people are talking about this-

sword auto can literally hit 2.5k 2.5k 4K and give might.

much more than greatsword or axe or many weapons in game

[Acyk.9671]

44 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Yeah know not enough people are talking about this-

sword auto can literally hit 2.5k 2.5k 4K and give might.

much more than greatsword or axe or many weapons in game

neither sword, neither might are the problem on a build that requires you to use your entire skill bar to make a kill. Pig maul should be brought down and that's it.

Soulbeast isn't even equal to what the old shiro herald could do.

[Frequency.6407]

I see a particular ranger putting forward the same argument that nerfing an espec-specific thing would destroy the other ranger specs.

This is the same ranger shouting non-stop about nerfing scepter fire 1 and that particular nerf destroyed all scepter-based ele specs.

Hypocrisy.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Frequency.6407

[Dreams.3128]

21 hours ago, Frequency.6407 said:

I see a particular ranger putting forward the same argument that nerfing an espec-specific thing would destroy the other ranger specs.

This is the same ranger shouting non-stop about nerfing scepter fire 1 and that particular nerf destroyed all scepter-based ele specs.

Hypocrisy.

 

We call that blind. But you know, that particular ranger always has something to say to back up his supposed insightful claims. Don't worry, the Ranger class will get their due diligence. Just gotta make enough threads just like they did obviously 😀

[zyra.7860]

Same problem still continues, no any nerfs.

[thc enjoyer.4976]

Can't agree. The build in question is too easy to kill, even if they can one shot, they get one shot. The problem with other "busted" specs usually correlates high sustain with high pressure, making it unbalanced. Ranger is high pressure, but folds. It's just another pDPS one shot. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 minutes ago, thc enjoyer.4976 said:

Can't agree. The build in question is too easy to kill, even if they can one shot, they get one shot. The problem with other "busted" specs usually correlates high sustain with high pressure, making it unbalanced. Ranger is high pressure, but folds. It's just another pDPS one shot. 

^ Yup

But what happens is in lower tiers like during ranked, veteran players use a jank gimmick build like that and it is very easy to target guys with l2p issues, and in general, high damage one-shots just RAGES people.

This is the problem Ranger has always had. Just due to how the class is designed, if it's balanced to be good in higher tiers, that means it'll be overperforming in middle to low tiers, and then those middle-low tier players complain about it. It then gets nerfed to appease middle-low tiers so they aren't annoyed and then it ends up never being meta for competitive MAT play.

Exactly what happens. But hey, even I have to respect the idea behind "balancing for middle tiers", I get it. But Arenanet needs to be careful just how much they catter to that mentality. People in middle-lower tiers will and do complain endlessly about things that annoy them that aren't even actually OP.

[zyra.7860]

Anet still havent done anything, days counting.