Agony Resistance and the Removal of Daily Login Rewards

[Linken.6345]

Yea the price have totaly not droped on +1 agony infusions and you never get them from fractals.

I used to sell them by the stack back when I did fractals.

[Anyandrell.6238]

6 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

If nothing changed in a system that worked fine for many people engaging with it, it seems to me that the emerging problem is with player attitude, not the system.

......

Finally someone who got it.

[Anyandrell.6238]

4 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea the price have totaly not droped on +1 agony infusions and you never get them from fractals.

I used to sell them by the stack back when I did fractals.

Say what?

[Anyandrell.6238]

5 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Categorical error. Just because something works in no way means that it works well. You should always keep the two separate. And there are only really ways now with SotO and the Wizard's Vault as I think that Ascended gear is available regardless of what version of the game you have. One of my initial arguments where that if you had no access to those things then they're impossible to get. You're making the mistake of making yourself the standard of what others should have/be able to. If I did that only around 8 million of the human population would be normal if I took my standard as being the average.

And just because you never met one has no impact on their existence. Your experience is a self-selecting bias. And I know a t least one. I in no way see them as the norm and I know they exist.

Besides the fact that you can craft ascended in core Tyria if you max your crafting, and you only need mats that can be found in core Tyria, you can also buy them from the vendors in the fractal lobby. I'm talking armor, not trinkets.

[Malus.2184]

9 hours ago, Anyandrell.6238 said:

Besides the fact that you can craft ascended in core Tyria if you max your crafting, and you only need mats that can be found in core Tyria, you can also buy them from the vendors in the fractal lobby. I'm talking armor, not trinkets.

And if you've chosen the incorrect crafting for this? Remember that the new and common player has no idea that a resource such as a GW2 fast crafting guide exists.

[Malus.2184]

14 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

I do feel it works well. You don't. Your mistake is that for you, your dislike of the system implies that it doesn't work well. That is not an absolute, that's just opinion. I'm not making anyone the standard, I'm just finding it glaring;y obvious that anyone who can meaningfully engage with high level fractals can also do what it takes to acquire the means to do so. It is like that now and it has always been. The problem can only be an unwillingness, and an unwillingness to adhere to the ways of the game just raises the question of why one desires to play the game at all. Fractals are a stated end game activity and as with all games, it takes some playing to get to the end game.

So you know someone who is a radical outlier. Games aren't designed around such people.

You want an example of how little effort is required? Here's one regardless. I have a core only account with 1 character I ever played. I made this account when the game went free to play, to sample the experience of playing that way. I managed to get a free code eventually that made it equal to a paid account, through some bubble tea advertisement. I used it for a while to get extra login rewards but I soon gave that up because it wasn't worth the bother. I logged it in after 5 years of inactivity (which I could tell from my private guild's roster) to, once again, sample a new experience, being the Wizard's Vault. I did trivially simple dailies and weeklies for 2 weeks, having maybe spent 2 hours altogether during those weeks, on a hardly developed character. It now has 3 ascended armor pieces, an ascended weapon and a few hundred astral acclaim remaining. For the second weekly I did a tier 25 fractal, with ease. Long story short, there is absolutely no issue with how the game lets its players progress into fractals. Any conceivable issue is with the individual.

If you want a real life simile, as you seem to be fond of those, you're claiming that there are people who insist to run, but they can't be bothered to even attempt to walk.

 

It's pretty objective. The AR system when seen in the context of everything else is bad since it's per character value despite pretty much everything else major being per account. And you can only do those things because the Vault offers a temporary solution that can still only affect one build per character. If you have a power, or a condi, or healing build then they need different sets of Ascended gear and thus also different sets of AR since changing on the fly is impossible.

If you had Legendary armor then you would experience for yourself how broken the AR system is since it becomes so much easier to handle since you only need one set of AR.

[Trejgon.9367]

49 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

And if you've chosen the incorrect crafting for this? Remember that the new and common player has no idea that a resource such as a GW2 fast crafting guide exists.

then you can always level another crafting discipline - having all of them maxed across the account is a good idea anyway.

[Malus.2184]

12 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

then you can always level another crafting discipline - having all of them maxed across the account is a good idea anyway.

Experienced players know this. That's my entire point. We should never take what experienced players know as the standard, you should take the new player who knows next to nothing since those are the ones that need to be attracted.

And this is still only a workaround to a bad system. No other content in the game requires that you have a personal crafter on your account to progress the content. If I need gear then in every other case I can go to the RP to get it, except in the case of Fractals where I for some reason need to make the gear myself. That step needs to be eliminated so that progress in this system becomes similar to that of progress in every other system.

[Trejgon.9367]

10 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

Experienced players know this. That's my entire point. We should never take what experienced players know as the standard, you should take the new player who knows next to nothing since those are the ones that need to be attracted.

I was like, 1 week deep into the game, back in the 2013, when I have decided that having all of crafting disciplines trained across my characters would be probably smart thing to do. Guides did not exist about it back then, are we seriously are going to assume all new players are unable to read and think for themselves until a guide tells them to do something? is that really your view on new players?

10 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

No other content in the game requires that you have a personal crafter on your account to progress the content.

Neither do fractals, as ascended trinkets are available without crafting, and between infusing and attuning, and 5 infusable trinket slots, you can get all the AR you need from those trinkets. Crafting is just encouraged as way of getting there easier, via having additional slots so you can get away with more of cheaper infusions.

EDIT: and with the new wizards vault, you don't even need crafting to get ascended weapons/armor, tho at timegated pace

Edited September 8, 2023 by Lord Trejgon.2809

[Malus.2184]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

I was like, 1 week deep into the game, back in the 2013, when I have decided that having all of crafting disciplines trained across my characters would be probably smart thing to do. Guides did not exist about it back then, are we seriously are going to assume all new players are unable to read and think for themselves until a guide tells them to do something? is that really your view on new players?

Neither do fractals, as ascended trinkets are available without crafting, and between infusing and attuning, and 5 infusable trinket slots, you can get all the AR you need from those trinkets. Crafting is just encouraged as way of getting there easier, via having additional slots so you can get away with more of cheaper infusions.

EDIT: and with the new wizards vault, you don't even need crafting to get ascended weapons/armor, tho at timegated pace

This is an exception. The average person spends about eight hours a week gaming.

[quake.9023]

AR should have been account based not armor.....this is an oversight....should be fixed already 

[Trejgon.9367]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

This is an exception. The average person spends about eight hours a week gaming.

and you know how much time I was or am spending on games... how exactly?

[Fire Wizard.9285]

22 hours ago, Anyandrell.6238 said:

Finally someone who got it.

Many people think that AR is pointless, but very few people write about it on the forum we just like to play, not write.

Besides, in a game where almost everything is tied to your account, agony could also work like that once unlocked just be on account available to any character like magic find no need to have pink equipment.

Aesthetic infusion accessories assigned to the wardrobe and the number to the account.

[zaced.7948]

is this another "mimimi, they took away my alt account gold farm" hidden behind a minor made up inconvenience thread?

[QueenKeriti.5176]

I didn't think it was such a novel concept to have to get shinier things to do high level content by actually playing the game in question, yet here we are.

1 hour ago, zaced.7948 said:

is this another "mimimi, they took away my alt account gold farm" hidden behind a minor made up inconvenience thread?

Looks like it.

[Sobx.1758]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:45 AM, Malus.2184 said:

Experienced players know this. That's my entire point. We should never take what experienced players know as the standard, you should take the new player who knows next to nothing since those are the ones that need to be attracted.

Inexperienced players also know this, because they see different crafting icons, talk to npcs and npcs tell them they can learn different disciplines. The concept of different disciplines crafting different stuff as well as understanding there are different armor weights also isn't rocket science and you learn that rather early into the game because you can obviously wear some armor parts you get and can't wear the others. This "think about new players!" coming from veteran players in order to leverage any change they want to see really is old, tired and hopefully ineffective.
And, btw, you can even buy some ascended gear for AA, so getting it is probably easier than it ever was anyways.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Inexperienced players also know this, because they see different crafting icons, talk to npcs and npcs tell them they can learn different disciplines. The concept of different disciplines crafting different stuff as well as understanding there are different armor weights also isn't rocket science and you learn that rather early into the game because you can obviously wear some armor parts you get and can't wear the others. This "think about new players!" coming from veteran players in order to leverage any change they want to see really is old, tired and hopefully ineffective.
And, btw, you can even buy some ascended gear for AA, so getting it is probably easier than it ever was anyways.

They know the concept instead of the importance, that's the difference. And yes you can, and that should tell you something, that ANet wants to make it easier to participate in this system.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

They know the concept instead of the importance, that's the difference.

What importance? Why are they leveling something they know they can't use? And how are these new players instantly getting gold needed to max out crafting?
All of these questions are not rhetorical.

4 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

And yes you can, and that should tell you something, that ANet wants to make it easier to participate in this system.

And it is easier than ever, while you were scared it will be much harder than ever. So... your concerns aren't really an issue anymore? (not that I think they even were an actual issue in the first place, for the reasons explained before the expansion release, but lets go with that for the sake of moving along)

Edited September 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

23 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

and you know how much time I was or am spending on games... how exactly?

An average is an aggregate number created from taking all instances measured, including instances of more or less, and then making a point of the middle, that's the average. If I have a sequence that is 1, 2, 3, 4 then the average would be 2,5 since that's the middle number between those four instances.

[Linken.6345]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:55 AM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

I was like, 1 week deep into the game, back in the 2013, when I have decided that having all of crafting disciplines trained across my characters would be probably smart thing to do

 

3 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

An average is an aggregate number created from taking all instances measured, including instances of more or less, and then making a point of the middle, that's the average. If I have a sequence that is 1, 2, 3, 4 then the average would be 2,5 since that's the middle number between those four instances.

So how do you get 8 hours from the statment above then?

since there is nothing to average out off there.

[Malus.2184]

48 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What importance? Why are they leveling something they know they can't use? And how are these new players instantly getting gold needed to max out crafting?
All of these questions are not rhetorical.

And it is easier than ever, while you were scared it will be much harder than ever. So... your concerns aren't really an issue anymore? (not that I think they even were an actual issue in the first place, for the reasons explained before the expansion release, but lets go with that for the sake of moving along)

You should ask those questions to the one before me who posed that everyone has a crafting discipline. What I did was steel manning it where I assumed that the perfect conditions were present. They have the money, they have the mats, they have everything needed, and even then you can go without ever interacting with the crafting system. The game itself never informs you just how important crafting is for Fractals and making Legendaries yourself. 

[Malus.2184]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

 

So how do you get 8 hours from the statment above then?

since there is nothing to average out off there.

Then you never really looked. A search on Google for  "average time per week spent on gaming" brought up the figure 8h 27m. 

[Anyandrell.6238]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:35 AM, Malus.2184 said:

And if you've chosen the incorrect crafting for this? Remember that the new and common player has no idea that a resource such as a GW2 fast crafting guide exists.

Then it's not the game's fault.

Considering what you replied to someone else here, it looks that you are desperately seeking to find faults.

To this I can only reply by quoting Murphy "If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot."

 

[Trejgon.9367]

3 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

An average is an aggregate number created from taking all instances measured, including instances of more or less, and then making a point of the middle, that's the average. If I have a sequence that is 1, 2, 3, 4 then the average would be 2,5 since that's the middle number between those four instances.

Everyone in here should be aware how averages work, thank you, this does not answer the question I asked.

You tried to rebuke my argument of how I approached things when I was new, with bringing up average playtime of modern player. This somehow implies that you are also claiming that example of my person does not fit that average, and therefore is irrelevant. That is, it would imply if we go under assumption you were trying to make a coherent and on topic argument against the post you quoted.

Therefore somehow, without me mentioning anything, on the subject of how much time I spend playing, You deduced that I play (or played when I was new player in 2013) significantly more than 8 hours a week. Which is very bold assumption to make, hence I inquired how did you come to that conclusion.

5 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

The game itself never informs you just how important crafting is for Fractals and making Legendaries yourself. 

For fractals it it not that important, for legendaries you are flat out informed in tooltips of specific gift recipies, that they require specific crafting discipline leveled to lvl 400.

[Anyandrell.6238]

58 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 And how are these new players instantly getting gold needed to max out crafting?

You don't need gold to max out crafting. You need mats. Which you can collect. And for the later levels of crafting, you sell what you make and you buy mats for the next tiers.

Even easier now as long-time players with EoD who want legendary weapons need research notes, so they buy low-level crafted items. That didn't exist in the beginning of the game. On the other hand, at the beginning of the game Exotics were the "omg I want that" so as soon as you got to yellow-level crafting you made enough money.