Everything feels cheesy.

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Most of not all builds can fully utilize it, and there are other forms of play instead of just zerging in WvW. Celestial stats benefit builds that have high might uptime and boons in general especially protection which these days almost all classes aside from core can generate. If you want to talk about zergs, a zerg with full celestial vS a zerg that the dps is all on full damage the zerg with full damage will die just as quick against a zerg that is simply running celestial. Being that firebrand can heavily benefit off celestial by providing high boon uptime burn damage and heals. 

I will have to consider zerg play. Mostly when I reply about Cele being BiS it is when it's referenced in roamer or havoc play. And that's usually to point out there are Cele builds and none-Cele builds. I don't try and reply to builds when talking Warband or zerg as OP since I am not running in that style as often. Since out of all the toons I have I still don't see Cele being the BiS on all combos, its the reason I will counter when statements are made just run it, step 2 ???, step three profit mentality. Hope that makes more sense. 

[RaveOnYou.2819]

you forgot perma immob druids, perma mobility-boon willbenders

[Sansar.1302]

2 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

you forgot perma immob druids, perma mobility-boon willbenders

Immob Druid is deleted from game( good too as it where op in many scenarios) with removal of a op cc trait

[Salt Mode.3780]

13 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I will have to consider zerg play. Mostly when I reply about Cele being BiS it is when it's referenced in roamer or havoc play. And that's usually to point out there are Cele builds and none-Cele builds. I don't try and reply to builds when talking Warband or zerg as OP since I am not running in that style as often. Since out of all the toons I have I still don't see Cele being the BiS on all combos, its the reason I will counter when statements are made just run it, step 2 ???, step three profit mentality. Hope that makes more sense. 

The only time when celestial is not BIS is if you are in an actual comp guild with a comp, people who band together in a zerg are more or less in celestial build because it is just an easy pick statline to choose from. Aside from a GvG guild or a guild specific comp most zergs are just a group of people banding together fighting other large mobs which is to counter your argument about "zerg play" because at the end of the day a roamer/havoc group can just go on a tag and call themselves zerging when in reality they are still using the same roaming/havoc build. There is no real "zerg play" its mostly a cmder tagging up and people grouping up on the tag. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Salt Mode.3780

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The only time when celestial is not BIS is if you are in an actual comp guild with a comp, people who band together in a zerg are more or less in celestial build because it is just an easy pick statline to choose from. Aside from a GvG guild or a guild specific comp most zergs are just a group of people banding together fighting other large mobs which is to counter your argument about "zerg play" because at the end of the day a roamer/havoc group can just go on a tag and call themselves zerging when in reality they are still using the same roaming/havoc build. There is no real "zerg play" its mostly a cmder tagging up and people grouping up on the tag. 

Jack of all trades is not BiS. I agree Cele allows more builds to do well in small scale, Warband and zerg play due to all the boons flying around. But again that didn't make it BiS since it loses efficiency and therefore drags down the overall group. Its the boons that are thrown around more than than the Cele that is the issue. I agree using it in a comp group is not the best idea since its not BiS in most builds which means again, stats were wasted. Using it as an argument that Cele makes everyone just meh is not the same as BiS. Cele works the best on hybrid builds. As far as zerg play, again will have to disagree, why do think we have so many forum complaints of gankers and builds that are more pure hunting builds that thin out larger groups when they have to respawn? I agree havocs and roamers can fit well into larger groups but that doesn't make them good fits into groups that are more efficient which is why you will see tags ask for certain builds and specs, how often have you seen them ask for Cele builds only. Cele works well on hybrids and fits solo and Havoc play but loses value the bigger the group gets. Your mileage will vary.

[Salt Mode.3780]

12 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Jack of all trades is not BiS. I agree Cele allows more builds to do well in small scale, Warband and zerg play due to all the boons flying around. But again that didn't make it BiS since it loses efficiency and therefore drags down the overall group. Its the boons that are thrown around more than than the Cele that is the issue. I agree using it in a comp group is not the best idea since its not BiS in most builds which means again, stats were wasted. Using it as an argument that Cele makes everyone just meh is not the same as BiS. Cele works the best on hybrid builds. As far as zerg play, again will have to disagree, why do think we have so many forum complaints of gankers and builds that are more pure hunting builds that thin out larger groups when they have to respawn? I agree havocs and roamers can fit well into larger groups but that doesn't make them good fits into groups that are more efficient which is why you will see tags ask for certain builds and specs, how often have you seen them ask for Cele builds only. Cele works well on hybrids and fits solo and Havoc play but loses value the bigger the group gets. Your mileage will vary.

At the end of the day Celestial stats can be used for roaming havoc and zerg play regardless of reasoning. It may not impact zerg play as much but it is destroying havoc and roaming which just incentivizes people to go in large group. 

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:43 PM, ConorT.5396 said:

Well, if thats the case - the game lost its vibe and its feel for me.

People are spawning laser beams on elite skill cast, and generating marks on dodge. Not to sound too negative - but what the kitten... is this...

10 year old game, power creep is sure to be thing but I guess I just got to the age where this entire thing is seeming more & more like an anime. Its gross.

 

I'm in the same boat and have been for a while.

The fantastical components in GW2 in its early years, while visible, were a bit more subtle.  Like low-level D&D.  Hell, our character in the early seasons wasn't an all-powerful hero as much as someone who just led people.  There were absolutely cheesy builds, but they were a bit more understated and were much less menacing and way more vulnerable to being shut down just by having an extra player around.

The way the game has evolved, we're playing superheroes now, and especially in the PvP modes, it's evident because none of the strong builds have defined moments of weakness and opportunity to punish them, with skills and high-level power design like mobility just being very overloaded and way too common on everything.

And it's exacerbated by the forced cutting away from low TTK builds from 2020 massively favoring sustain-focused builds.

The game lost its vision a while ago.  It's just even more obvious by the aesthetic being completely and utterly over the top.