Why engi has no melee condi weapon?

[SeTect.5918]

So some days ago i commented on a topic:

 

And well...i asked myself why engi has no melee condi weapon. Projectile reflections or Blocks make it kinda difficult to go with the pistol sometimes. 

Almost every class has a melee condi weapon:

 

Ele: sword, dagger

Warrior: sword

Ranger: dagger

Necro: none

Guardian: Axe

Thief: daggers

Engi: none

Mesmer: Axe

Revenant: mace

 

Why do engi and necro not have melee condi weapons? 

I mean even the grenade and flamethrower skills can be reflected. Same with holo forge 4.

Engi is so hardcore projectile based, can we please get at least a mainhand weapon that cant be reflected/blocked? 

And we are getting shortbow as a new weapon...great, more projectiles. If its condi we have even 2 projectile condi weapons and none for melee.

In this case can we please make sword or mace hybrid so it can work as both? Like with ele sword that can be used for both power and condi. 

All i want to say is that it kinda sucks that whenever a player or pve mob has a lot of projectile reflect/block, your condi builds become 100% useless whereas all (except necro) other classes dont have this Problem.

Edited September 12, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[Icefyer.9208]

Mace used to be a solid condi option until they nerfed confusion into the ground.

[Vandal.5621]

Because Engi has so few weapons, to begin with.

Engineer shipped with ZERO melee weapons. The kits were supposed to make up for it, but the melee kit is bad.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Vandal.5621

[SeTect.5918]

26 minutes ago, Vandal.5621 said:

Because Engi has so few weapons, to begin with.

Engineer shipped with ZERO melee weapons. The kits were supposed to make up for it, but the melee kit is bad.

Well we have 2 power melee and 1 support melee atm. I m sure one of them could be made hybrid.

As for kits we only have bomb kit which is melee and condi.

Edited September 12, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Icefyer.9208 said:

Mace used to be a solid condi option until they nerfed confusion into the ground.

Yea i know but its so terrible now that probably sword is a better "condi" option than mace now.

Thats why i didnt mention it.

Edited September 12, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[Bomboed.5697]

Because Engi was designed with Kits as an alternative to weapons in mind, and Engi has melee condi Kits.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Yea i know but its so terrible now that probably sword is a better "condi" option than mace now.

Thats why i didnt mention it.

It's still the answer to your question. Mace is supposed to be the melee condition weapon, but it was indirectly nerfed. Said indirect nerf was recent enough that ArenaNet probably didn't realise how bad they were going to make it when they decided on shortbow for the new weapon, and it's probably still better to resolve the issue through compensatory buffs than by introducing an entirely new condition melee weapon.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Shortbow better be kittening good. That's all I got to say

[SeTect.5918]

4 hours ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

Because Engi was designed with Kits as an alternative to weapons in mind, and Engi has melee condi Kits.

The only melee condi kit is bomb kit and thats just 2 skills in which one of them is confusion which is terribly bad rn

[SeTect.5918]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's still the answer to your question. Mace is supposed to be the melee condition weapon, but it was indirectly nerfed. Said indirect nerf was recent enough that ArenaNet probably didn't realise how bad they were going to make it when they decided on shortbow for the new weapon, and it's probably still better to resolve the issue through compensatory buffs than by introducing an entirely new condition melee weapon.

Never said to introducing an entirely new condi melee weapon. I asked in op if we can give sword or mace more/other conditions to make one of them any useful as condi weapon. 

Sword has 1-5 bleed on skill 2 (depending on heat, tho its also projectiles) and mace is stacked with confusion which is kinda bad atm. So yea i asked for 1 of them to be buffed into a hybrid/condi weapon. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I would rather see them buff mace rather than add condition on sword.

 

 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

engi have shortbow as condi weapon

[Gendalfs.7521]

2 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

engi have shortbow as condi weapon

Are you from future?

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

engi have shortbow as condi weapon

Daamn we will get condi melee shortbow?

Cant wait strangling Elder dragons with my shortbow-string!

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Daamn we will get condi melee shortbow?

Cant wait strangling Elder dragons with my shortbow-string!

Strangling Kryptis. We're done with Elder Dragons unless ArenaNet runs out of ideas and pulls an 'Aurene goes bad' plot.

[jason.1083]

4 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Daamn we will get condi melee shortbow?

Cant wait strangling Elder dragons with my shortbow-string!

Honestly though, the game has melee weapons as ranged weapons, having ranged weapons as melee would be fitting I guess, can't even imagine how a bow of all things could be used in melee though. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by jason.1083

[draxynnic.3719]

2 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Honestly though, the game has melee weapons as ranged weapons, having ranged weapons as melee would be fitting I guess, can't even imagine how a bow of all things could be used in melee though. 

Smack with bowstaff.

Jab with end of bow.

Strangle with bowstring.

Trip.

Nock a dozen arrows at once. Accuracy will be terrible, but if the target is six inches away, who cares?

Wrap bowstaff around enemy's head and pull string back and release so that they get clobbered by the string.

And I'm not even considering fancy gadgets that could be built into the bow!

...

I'm being facetious, of course. It'll probably be trick arrows.

[SeTect.5918]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Strangling Kryptis. We're done with Elder Dragons unless ArenaNet runs out of ideas and pulls an 'Aurene goes bad' plot.

Yea the thing is strangling kryptis doesn't Sound as funny as strangling elder dragons. 

But we can also Repeat stories! So we can still strangle Elder dragons!

[Zzik.5873]

On 9/16/2023 at 2:29 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

Yea the thing is strangling kryptis doesn't Sound as funny as strangling elder dragons. 

But we can also Repeat stories! So we can still strangle Elder dragons!

What about dragon kryptis? But back to op, yeah mace is the engi condi melee weapon.

[SeTect.5918]

7 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

But back to op, yeah mace is the engi condi melee weapon.

Sadly considering how bad it is.

I mean it is not even hard to make it better:
Auto attack: Give it additionally 1 stack of bleed for 1 sec each time.
Mace 2: Give it additionally 3 stacks of bleed for 10 sec. Increase Confusion duration from 5 sec to 8 sec (bleed duration in pvp and wvw 3 sec instead of 10 sec, confusion duration in wvw and pvp stays the same as before).
Mace 3: Additionally 2 stacks of bleed for 6 sec.

Done, now its basically a useful weapon which can somewhat compete with pistol.

Or alternatively if they want to keep it a confusion weapon:

Auto attack: Increase Confusion duration from 5 to 6 sec.
Mace 2: Increase the Confusion stacks from 3 to 5. Increase the confusion duration from 5 sec to 12 sec (that way it has same stacks and duration as pistol 2's poison).
Mace 3: Additionally inflicts 2 stacks of confusion for 8 sec now.

its so easy, but no, they nerfed confusion to the ground but did nothing to weapons or skills which are fully confusion based are totally killed them with the change.
I really hope confusion or mace gets included in the upcoming patch at 26th september.

[Gendalfs.7521]

Yesterday tried out this build:

Yes, dmg is not the highest but its not too bad either.

[Gendalfs.7521]

35 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

its so easy, but no, they nerfed confusion to the ground but did nothing to weapons or skills which are fully confusion based are totally killed them with the change.
I really hope confusion or mace gets included in the upcoming patch at 26th september.

They need to buff Mech(scrapper) overall or nerf everything else, its a bit in not good state now

Seems Im not only one thinking Engie is overnerfed lol:

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Gendalfs.7521
Added info

[SeTect.5918]

44 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Yesterday tried out this build:

Yes, dmg is not the highest but its not too bad either.

idk its an open world build, there you can play basically everything and it will work.

If you are interested in open world builds c : :
I play cele scrapper in open world with pistol/pistol and it deals like 40-50% more dmg while having massive defense.
Mushroom queen, bounties, balthasar heropoint etc. are no problem at all, they dont even get me under 70% health and even then i just press my heal and i get like 12k hp back.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PewAoqllRw6YOsGWKWyT1tSA-DyIY1oj/QyREEoCIWJgC/CAAA-e
Thats the one i m using. perm 25 might, perm quickness, perm superspeed, almost perm regen, perm swiftness, 50% prot uptime, some stability etc, you can see it all on the build editor.

The problem i found with mechanist in open world:
Yes it offers a "lazy" gameplay because the mech does a lot for you, BUT if the enemy focuses you and not your mech, mechanist itself offers like 0 defense for the character itself and you die very fast. You mech is your shield, but if the enemy ignores this shield, you dead. I had this problem a lot with the avatar of balthazar heropoint in auric basin which always focused me instead of the mech, on this heropoint its still possible to get out surviving but other enemies have more damage (for example mushroom queen heropoint).

Edited September 20, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[Gendalfs.7521]

38 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Yes it offers a "lazy" gameplay because the mech does a lot for you, BUT if the enemy focuses you and not your mech, mechanist itself offers like 0 defense for the character itself and you die very fast. You mech is your shield, but if the enemy ignores this shield, you dead. I had this problem a lot with the avatar of balthazar heropoint in auric basin which always focused me instead of the mech, on this heropoint its still possible to get out surviving but other enemies have more damage (for example mushroom queen heropoint).

100% this. Prior Mech was like kill things before they kill you. Now dmg isnt enought anymore.

[SeTect.5918]

4 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

100% this. Prior Mech was like kill things before they kill you. Now dmg isnt enought anymore.

Yup, mech even had more defense before.

Condi mech was like:
high dmg in general + confusion was good. Mech had high defense and could easily tank enemies.
well power mech was never good, it just "existed".

Now its like:
bad dmg in general, confusion is bad. Mech has low defense and cant tank well.

Besides the fact that mechanist offers no defense for the player itself which leaves you kinda vulnerable.


I would say engi is overall actually in a kinda bad place right now.
Mechanist is an okay support but has no dmg and the player itself is vulnerable.
Scrapper is an okay support but has even less dmg than mechanist but has defense.
Holo is in a good state.

Edited September 20, 2023 by SeTect.5918