Why did Arenanet give up on this gamemode?

[Flowki.7194]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:26 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

I'm so glad you're here. Now explain to a-net how, I can't wait for things to change. 😛

There is a game called team fortress 2. It was predominantly a class based fps, which was free to play, although you had some small entry fees to trade etc. Rust is another game, one time buy, huge pvp playerbase. Fortnight is another example.

 

All games had one thing in common, skins. People love skins. So, pvp exlusive skins, and more exlusive the higher the rank OR objective based unlocks = revenue.  Nobody was forced to buy anything in any of those games, and they were all highly succesfull.

 

It suggests to me that the people who own this game may not like pvp, but can't bring themselves to hire a decent team with a working modal, to their own loss of large amounts of pvp playerbase > money. Or, the other option is that the core mechanics of this game are so casual that it is an absolute nightmare to balance, which seems to be backed up by many horrendous balance issues of past, so now, nobody with any witts about them wants the job? Who knows.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[deathdealer.2197]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

There is a game called team fortress 2. It was predominantly a class based fps, which was free to play, although you had some small entry fees to trade etc. Rust is another game, one time buy, huge pvp playerbase. Fortnight is another example.

 

All games had one thing in common, skins. People love skins. So, pvp exlusive skins, and more exlusive the higher the rank OR objective based unlocks = revenue.  Nobody was forced to buy anything in any of those games, and they were all highly succesfull.

 

It suggests to me that the people who own this game may not like pvp, but can't bring themselves to hire a decent team with a working modal, to their own loss of large amounts of pvp playerbase > money. Or, the other option is that the core mechanics of this game are so casual that it is an absolute nightmare to balance, which seems to be backed up by many horrendous balance issues of past, so now, nobody with any witts about them wants the job? Who knows.

Bro if pvp got exclusive skins the pve'rs would riot you know this

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

4 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

this is beyond a doubt, not true.

we've seen the approximate data. its just that most players log on to complete new content then log off for several months. the average amount of daily players is still well into the hundreds of thousands, and if you count the china release (which isn't part of ncsoft) is likely ~1mil.

Edited September 20, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Saiyan.1704]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:50 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

 

I don't understand this mentality though. Pvp is a huge part of most games, infact many games are entirely dedicated to it. Its genuinely not hard to put a pvp oriented team together, seperate pvp-pve mechanics (as they have done) and show this mode some actual attention for garunteed return on invetsment.

Except PvP is not a requirement for games to be successful. Actually it has never been a requirement. Just look at one of the newer games, Armored Core 6. Its PvP is incredibly basic with only 2 modes. No leaderboards and no progression system. Just a queue button. People rage over it but they still bought the game. The exceptions are PvP exclusive games like COD, LoL, etc.

It's not a "mentality thing" it's just a fact and it's not like Anet never tried to invest in PvP. They allocated their advertisement funds into over-seas Tournaments until they lost the budget. They then allocated funds to make Stronghold...which was a larger failure than the Tournaments because it didn't increase the playerbase at all (the gamemode sucked) it was a 100% waste of funds.

That was the final nail in the coffin. It is a miracle we even get balance patches at all.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, deathdealer.2197 said:

Bro if pvp got exclusive skins the pve'rs would riot you know this

Pve exlusive skins?

 

16 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Except PvP is not a requirement for games to be successful. Actually it has never been a requirement. Just look at one of the newer games, Armored Core 6. Its PvP is incredibly basic with only 2 modes. No leaderboards and no progression system. Just a queue button. People rage over it but they still bought the game. The exceptions are PvP exclusive games like COD, LoL, etc.

It's not a "mentality thing" it's just a fact and it's not like Anet never tried to invest in PvP. They allocated their advertisement funds into over-seas Tournaments until they lost the budget. They then allocated funds to make Stronghold...which was a larger failure than the Tournaments because it didn't increase the playerbase at all (the gamemode sucked) it was a 100% waste of funds.

That was the final nail in the coffin. It is a miracle we even get balance patches at all.

What are you trying to say here? why is it an either or situation?, it very much doesnt have to be, many games had succesfull pve, coop and pvp content going all at the same time.

 

A pvp game stands more chance to thrive when first and formost it is designed with the average player in mind, is fun, and is fair. When those elements are in place, it will write itself for the higher competitive level, becuase you then have a healthy stream of playerbase, some of which will go on to ''master'' level > high competitive league. Over the past 2 decades, gaming companies are increasingly putting the profits before the player experiance, wanting to make games in to almost superbowl hyper competitive sports with big bucks from streaming advertisements from the start. You dont start, or force a pvp game like that.. becuase the motivations are all wrong.

 

And what is the message here? becuase gw2 didn't make it to the big league, lets just abandon normal pvp becuase why? its not profitable enough? well that highlights the exact problem. Putting money before what gaming is suppose to be, first and formost, fun.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[dead.7638]

What was that one map we used to play, the death match one?   Bring that back in off season.   Also bring back ranked 1v1

[dead.7638]

RANKED 1v1.

[Riba.3271]

Game developers in America have been facing major issues with greed. Probably this extends to investors and publishers too.

If you have 3 hands taking extra from the pizza box, not much will be left. They probably just threw expensive and skillful developers away and hired some cheap filler people so players don't abandon the game.

[Saiyan.1704]

8 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

What are you trying to say here?

 

They tried several times and failed. That is the point I am making. They can't keep throwing money away and pray that a product will just work... especially when they don't even know how Conquest has even lasted as long as it has. If they did, Stronghold wouldn't have failed so hard. You say that if they kept banging their heads against a brick wall that the wall will just go away but that is not reality. They use 99% of their resources for PvE and 1% for PvP. Most of that is in balances and honestly, we're lucky to have it.
 

8 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

And what is the message here? becuase gw2 didn't make it to the big league, lets just abandon normal pvp becuase why? its not profitable enough?

The devs said that the money spent in the Leagues were literally advertisement money. It just got to the point where it was no longer sustainable which sounds like standard business practices to me. If you don't put money into it then you can't possibly lose money. But you're talking like a professional developer here, please tell us how GW2 should proceed with PvP with a spreadsheet of how much it will cost for the company and a median profit margin long term.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Archer.4362]

disagree, people left because you could no longer play with friends when the queue changed, if 5 vs 5 comes back and a balance rework, people will come back, it was fun to play with your guild friends

[Burnfall.9573]

I was encouraged to give PvP another chance and the experience was Detrimental, Horrific and Traumatic. Stealth Thief Profession spamming Dagger Storm everywhere and 2 shotting players, Unkillable Elementalist Profession 2 shotting players, Unkillable Warrior Profession with exceeding damages....it was so Toxic that, 4 players decided to afk for the remaining match while I was considering doing the same.

Anet continual failure to remove Toxic Bad Design mechanics, trait line, skills in PvP and WvW is beyond Unacceptable!! 

While NCSOFT is addressing combat experience and making other improvements and fixes to their upcoming game-Throne And Liberty.

11 Years, absolutely, nothing is changing for the better in PvP including the Detrimental Neglected WvW game mode. 

From now on, I will def.. stay clear away from Toxicity vs Toxicity -PvP and will leave it in the trash mode, where it belongs.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Morvran.8265]

On 9/17/2023 at 2:23 PM, Chaos God.1639 said:

is there even a story behind the pvp/wvw mode? in wow its horde vs alliance. in lotr its good vs evil. in gw2 it looks like its just I want to defeat you to get the rewards.

There was in GW1 but Anet completely gave up on worldbuilding when they made GW2.

[deathdealer.2197]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:21 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

Pve exlusive skins?

It dun work dat way you know this too

[atshadow.8695]

probably because the data showed that it doesn't attract new players or affects player retention.

quite frankly judging how quickly they dropped the championship tournaments it probably never has affected the game in an overly positive way, they just gave the pvp community automated tournaments instead so they wouldn't have to bother with it(judging by the release dates of AT's(2017) in corrolation with the last championship(2016)).

edit: this is simply my guesstimate in terms of their train of thought. obv its speculation ngl I think AT's are just a bone to keep the playerbase from not complaining about the lack of PvP events.

edit2: i love pvp btw i'm not shitting on it merely being objective here

Edited September 24, 2023 by atshadow.8695

[kiwituatara.6053]

On 9/17/2023 at 2:46 AM, Bazsi.2734 said:

The reason is basicly that their entrance to e-sports in 2016 failed. Resources gradually got taken away, and we stopped getting any new content in 2019. The playerbase rapidly declined not much later. 

Now after several years of chaos they finally managed to get themselves togheter. We were asking for this for half a decade: a roadmap. Finally we know what we can expect: PvE gets regular updates and features, PvP and WvW gets nothing. All the uncertainty is gone, now we know that NOTHING is coming our way. We can make an easy decision whether we want to keep playing this game or not.

Yup, imo they shouldn't have pushed for e-sports. GW2 pvp is so hard to watch, especially if you're not familiar with the game. It never stood a chance.

 

They should've just focused on the players instead and made pvp more fun and accessible.

[Shagie.7612]

36 minutes ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Yup, imo they shouldn't have pushed for e-sports. GW2 pvp is so hard to watch, especially if you're not familiar with the game. It never stood a chance.

 

Pretty much everyone around the time was trying really hard to pump e-sports, instead of realizing that they have to grow from the community. Unless you're willing to throw a bajillionty dollars out every year like say, League or Street Fighter (5 being the obvious example of that, especially coming from 4), it has to be a grassroots thing.

Most attempts at it failed.
Infinite Crisis
Gigantic
Battlerite/Bloodline Champions
Forge
Kurtzpel
Blade and Soul's pvp scene

Those are just a few I personally participated in, there's a ton more, look at the battle royale craze and how hard all of them dropped off.